High current/low impedence tube amps???
Let me know when you find them!
John |
John! Hijacked is a good way to put it. The Clayton amps you recommended will be considered. I am biased toward tube amps at this point. If I can find an SS with similar character? Thanks again, Ralph |
A_rt, I too am curious, if you are so wise, informed and scientific, how is it that you have no clue to Proton gear I use? And why haven't I ever heard of the stuff you sell/manufacture?
LOL, HYPE, 90% of audio is hype, and the rest is truth, revealing, horrifying, absolute truth from a source via ones chosen speaker system and source player, amplifiers mean very little by way of "A GIVEN" sound. This is more so in dB output when a designer follows a given standard, more then this becomes over kill most times, and more often then not, outright unecessary.
But then you have never heard a Proton sing- have you?
But then you know more then my ears do dont you? |
Ralphdude, sorry, it looks like your thread got hijacked.
BTW, how did you make out? Did you get any real information?
John |
Ar_t, I'm afraid that I have to agree with Muralman1 on this one. I'm baffled as to why you seem to become so defensive, both here and in the Audio Circle threads. Personally, I am considering an ICEpower amp to drive my SoundLabs. The H2Os are under consideration. I'd like to consider your own amps as well, but hesitate to do so, not because of issues of sound quality (I have never heard your amps), but because I have a bias towards designers who display at least a hint of objectivity. If you would care to make your case regarding the superiorities of your amps with respect to other contenders, by all means please get in touch by email.
Having said that, we have all turned Ralphdude's thread into a pissing contest. Can I suggest that we refrain from further comment in the interest of sticking to the subject? |
I don't know what your problem is. We aren't even talking about the same entity. Your buddy Henry does not build amps using the ASP modules, and that is what I am talking about. Unless you are willing to compare apples to apples, I suggest that perhaps you should not try to confuse the readers.
The ASP modules are more suited to low Z application, as they have current limiting and short circuit protection built in. In theory, they would be ideal. But they don't work well for very low Z loads in a full-range application. If that subtle point has eluded you, well, I can not take responsibility for that.
Personal jab??? I thought that you had a sense of humour. I suppose I guessed wrong.
Should I ask everyone to genuflect now??? [JOKE] |
Oh, so you are the high priest of science here too, I suppose. I am honestly telling you Henry's amp's sound is not something you can extrapolate from that of your own. You can't accept that.
What I meant when I said "Henry's party" is your pit bull leg grapple every time I write. Take this topic, for instance. I made an honest, factual statement. You followed me negatively with a personal jab.
Why didn't you just suggest some other amp?
I am not the commercial entity you are. It is unbecoming, to say the least, for a builder to badger a consumer, no matter what a lout you perceive me to be. |
Look at the freq resp. plots in the Stereophile review. Parasound Halo JC-1's. Also can be modded. |
Ar_t,
Amen to that!!!
PERSONALLY, I and my friends are SICK and TIRED of reading Muralmans constant repetitive posts about the H20 amps!
Face it, Muralman, there ARE better amps out there than the H20's. NO AMP is perfect!
Get a life and give all of us a break!...PLEASE!
Thank you. |
I am not crashing anyone's party. Neither you or Henry run this forum.
If you can not accept the laws of physics, then just butt out. A lot of us are tired of your constant cheerleading. Maybe we ought to lodge a protest against you. |
Try a pair of Bryston 7BSST monoblocks. Reasonably priced for the performance and sound quality. |
You certainly can not measure my amp's frequency response. You have no idea what the sound of my amps are. None. Just the fact you lumped Rowland, PS Audio, Henry's and your amps together shows you haven't a clue.
There hasn't been a listener to Henry's amps that complained of the highs on any load. There are six of us Scintilla owners using the H2O. We are all thrilled with the results. My system's experience mirrors Sajran's as he reported in his review; the same as Audiofankj's in this forum, and others found in other forums.
You know, Art, I have had enough of your crashing Henry's party. I will levy a complaint against you at this forum, if you persist. There is not another company head that behaves as you do. You appear just freaking jealous. Get over it. |
The "point" did not show up on my screen. I was sure you had a fairly low load.
And yes, it is indicative of ALL of them.
Mine, Henry's, Rowland's, PS Audio......you name it. You can't change the laws of physics.
Face it: you can't measure it and I can. If you like it, then fine. I really don't care. I'm just telling you what the truth is. You choice to believe it or go about impervious.
You realise there is the distinct possibility that whatever you had before had even a harder time driving that load, and had just as many, if not more, problems. But since you have absolutely no way of verifying anything, we will all have to just guess. |
Art, I'll take all you have said as criticism of your own ICE amps. After all, it wouldn't be kosher for a builder to impinge a competitor's products with a broad brush, would it?
The reason why your criticism falls flat is because my speakers, like I wrote, are not 8 ohm. They are a brutal .8 ohm. That is POINT eight ohm.
If you think 2 ohm speaker's highs suffer ICE damage, just think how terrible <1 ohm sounds. Well, they don't. My highs are sublime, just as are all frequencies down to 20hZ. |
I know....you're itching to get your hands on some of our stuff. Maybe when more of our loaners come back, we'll work something out.
Irony is........you would think that an amp that can do 1 kW into 4 ohms, and can work into loads as low as 2 ohms, would be great on a really difficult, power hungry load. That is what we thought.
Problem with all ICEpower modules is the frequency response tends to peak as the load impedance goes lower. While the peak is above the audio range, it still tends to tilt the HF response.
With an 8 load, I can easily understand why you are so happy with Henry's amps. The 250 doesn't peak too much, and while the 500 does a bit more, it is manageable. At 8 ohms, that is.
You only run into severe peaking problems with loads below 4 ohms. For those loads, the peaking is shifted into the audio band. This has the additional detrimental effect of causing the very top (18-20 kHz) to drop off rather quickly. Again, not too bad in the 250, so-so in the 500, but way too much with the 1000ASP. So, you end up with a peak around 16 kHz, and a sharp drop at 20 kHz with the big module. (If you look closely at their specs, they only spec the stand-alone 1000W module for 6 kHz or so.)
OK........crux of all this:
I know that there are companies selling amps using the 1000ASP modules. Some of them may even be friends of mine.
BUT:
I do not recommend them to be used with very low impedance loads. Seems like a waste, as why would anyone with anything other than an inefficent, low impedance load need an amp that puts out 1 kW?
Pssst........if you need a kilowatt for a (sub) woofer application, call me. Prototype units available at a great price. |
^^ heh, and I thought i was bad at 2.5 ohms WOW. |
Hey Art - send your most robust amp hither and we'll smoke it. ;)
By the way, my speakers are .8 ohm. I don't listen to music higher that 90 dB as a rule. With Henry's Fire preamp, I'm getting +20 amp transients. There is a nearby audiophile that is using the stereo version of the H2O Signature on 4 ohm speakers. The percussion was terrifying.
Watch for the next H2O reviews at Positive Feedback. |
Hey Vince.......
You forgot to tell us what the frequency response looks like @ 2 ohms. The current output you give is the peak value, which means only for a very short transient. All it really says is that with an 80V rail, and a 2 ohm load, it should be able to operate for a short period of time without melting.
(Of course, that assumes that the supply voltage doesn't drop under such conditions.......etc.)
But if you want an amp that puts out 1 kW into only 4 ohms, then have I got a deal for you.............
I know....behave and stop making trouble. [joke] |
Hi Ralph,
Actually I had success with tube and solid state preamps with the M-100's. I would avoid tube preamps with high output impedence like CJ's though (700 ohms). Tube pre's with output impedence at or below 300 ohms, like BAT worked as well or better with the M-100's than the solid state preamps from Threshold/Krell/Mark Levinson that I tried with them.
John |
H2O
output impedance: 0.005 ohms
input impedance: 8 Kohms
minimum load impedance: 2 ohms
current output: 45 amps. |
Thanks jmcgrogan2! Excellent lead. From what I have read so far, they would appear to be a very nice match for the Continuum 3's. One reviewer favored matching to an ss pre. Have you any experience in this area? Thanks again! Ralph |
Clayton Audio M-100 monoblocks. Great SS amps. Definitely high current/low impedance capable.
John |
