Miyajima MADAKE experience

Both the RS and Viv arms are pretty agnostic about cartridge compliance, working well with low and high. Not sure why that would be.

The RS-A1 is a bit crazy in some design aspects, but I believe the basic notion of an underhung tonearm with zero headshell offset angle has merit, and that’s why it sounds good. See debates on this subject elsewhere with respect to the Viv Float tonearm.

Hi lewm: didn’t know about Chakster’s absence. He was a generous contributor and I hope that may continue.

I’ve been heavily invested in the high mass approach but over the last couple of years I seem to have lost that lovin’ feeling. This Miyajima Mature is a true departure for me. It came mounted in an alloy headshell with a 1mm brass spacer and my first take was ‘it’s a dud’. The RS-A1 had been on the shelf for over 10 years because it’s scary to use with shaky hands! This cartridge and tonearm combination has been revelatory but it’s such a break with my history I’m wondering if I’ve been delusional. If the luck continues it could mean selling off a number of cherished pieces. And then perhaps, regret. Seems like a little crisis of faith. Anyone else had this happen?

 

 

Chakster hasn’t chimed in well over a year. We hope he’s ok. Why do you ask whether using the RS-A1 might be insane? Yes, it’s finicky, and one fears accidents that might damage the cartridge, but the RS-A1 in service usually brings out good qualities in a cartridge. (I own one.)

Hi: I’m late to the party too but I don’t want to start a redundant thread. I found a Japan-only Miyajima called the Mature Studio BE. A retipper examined the stylus and said it was a Shibata in very good condition. I wrote to Miyajima and they indicated that it was similar to the Shilabe but an early model and no parts were available if I was looking for a rebuild. I mounted it on a 47 Labs RS-A1 and it sounds smooth and rather beguiling. So much so that I’m now considering a Kansui or even higher in the range. Am I mad to be using the RS-A1? I also have an Ikeda 345 and a 12 inch Groovemaster lll. I’ve been through the stone Koetsu and Urushi thing as well as the SPU Synergy and Spirit as well as the Ikeda 9TT. I’m considering a Schröder Model 2. Maybe Chakster will chime in.

Thanks and I hope this post finds you all well.

 

Very late to this thread but, I own a Miyajima Kansui, a Madake, and a Koetsu Rosewood Signature. I liked the Kansui well enough but, after I had it retipped the first time, it seemed like a different and better cartridge. I've retipped it twice both times at Miyajima and find the service and price great. This last time, they offered me an upgrade to the Madake for an extra 550. I took the deal. Meanwhile, I'm running the Koetsu which is newly retipped from Koetsu. I can't say it's any better than the Kansui but, it has a slightly more musical and vivacious presentation. I still think the Miyajimas with their service offer the better value. The factory is quick - probably 3 months to Koetsu's year.

I agree with chaster on the metal tube since it is no longer included in the more recent packaging box.  I have just received a new Origin Live Enterprise Mk4 tonearm and mounted my Madake.  I use the screws included with the cartridge and place the screw slots on top.  I have no issues with this positioning and the cartridge magnets affecting the screwdriver but a non magnetic one would be safest.  The Madake’s performance has taken a significant step up with the new tonearm.  

Yup.....unfortunately I received no tools with my EMT cartridges.

@labpro I got my tools with cartridges, most of the time I use small one I received with my first ZYX cartridge many years ago, then I bought many  vintage cartridges and got many more tools with them :)) 

Thank you for the feedback chakster.

Do you have a recommendation for a non-magnetic screwdriver? Seems like Miyajima uses phillips head screws.

I see "ceramic" tools (non sparking, non magnetic) on Amazon, but quite expensive.

Thank you.

@labpro I think the metal tube is just for protection inside the display case (to make sure the cartridge can’t be smashed in the box). 
Use non magnetic tool and screws. 

Thanks to labpro's post, this thread was brought to the fore once again. Vortrex, you don't say which of the woods you chose for your 3P.  It would be worthwhile to know that since your experience was apparently contrary to that of some others who ran the Kansui with a 3P and were/are happy.  (We'd need to know which wood was chosen for those other users, as well, of course.)  There can be quite a difference in effective mass for any given model of Reed tonearm, depending upon the wood choice.

Those of you who have Miyajima cartridges, can you explain what the round metal tube (that comes with the cartridge) is used for.

I assume it must have something to do with installing the screws and bolt?
Also, if I install the screws with the bolts being "on top" of the head shell, do I need to worry about using a metal screwdriver because of the magnets?

Thanks.

What a nice packaging, look at this little cutie 

close up 

Well done by Noriyuki Miyajima's daughter, who assembled all his cartridges, must be well trained fingers, very nice. Some images of this process.  

I think i'm gonna try it on my IKEDA IT-345 instead of Reed 3p. 
Has anyone tried it on Ikeda tonearms ? 

P.S. Noriyuki's company Otono Edison Lab has been in business since the 80's, i'm curious what they have been doing before Miyajima cartridges ?  Patent for Cross Ring has been registered only in 2005. 

 

Never seen KSW SUT in real life, but it’s 28.5dB / 16 Ohm, type ETR-KSW according to specs.

I only used the KSW SUT.

Miyajima Kansui has arrived today from Denmark, i am excited about it. 
Beautiful African Blackwood body, the velvet box is so cute and small. 

Tips from the manufacturer:
250 Ohm loading with MC phono preamp is recommended
or SUT with 16 Ohm and higher 

How do you guys load your Kansui ?  

Yes I agree, the math says it should have been a great fit. 

@vortrex  Strange, the reviewer's choice for Madake (for example) was Reed 3p and there is no difference in mass and compliance between Kansui and Madake.   

I tried two different Kansui on my 3P and had sibilance I could not get rid of. I later saw another person on audiogon with the same issue. 

My thread was created about 4 years ago and since that day i was thinking about Miyajima cartridge for my collection. I have missed many great offers from the official distributors of Miyajima in several countries from USA to New Zealand, also asked European Distributors for demo units to save on cost, i have seen a used Miyajima cartridges online etc ... for 4 years! But still it was too much money for me and still i’ve seen so many other cartridges for lower cost to try.

I can’t wait no more ...

Finally joined the Miyajima fan club with my (NEW) Miyajima Kansui.
WOW, can’t believe it .

And you know i did’t even crossed my red line in price, so i’m happy :))

Everyone knows that i hate re-tippied or refurbished carts, so i bought NEW (unused) original cartridge to make sure i will have enough time with the original sound.

I want to thank all the contributors in this thread, sometimes it’s hard to find information about wonderful Japanese cartridges, even about new cartridges (except for reviews).

I will add the links to reviews here again:
-Miyajima Kansui in High Fidelity
-Miyajima Kansui in 10 Audio
-Miyajima Kansui in Hi-Fi +

more links on manufacturer website.

I remember rave reviews about Shilabe cartridge, then they made even better Kansui, and then the Madake (which is over my red line in price).

P.S. I have some nice tonearms waiting for this cartridge:

FR-64s & FR-64fx, Lustre GST-801, Victor UA-7082 and modern reference class Reed 3p "12 Cocobolo.

BTW:  HERE is Stefano Bertoncello's  pictures directly from Miyajima Lab in Japan. 

@lewm : No, they have built in MC step up transformers

It's too much for shibata tip, i would never buy a used miyajima with 600 hrs on it. Their factory re-tipping policy changed to exchange policy only.

The one i'm talking about had only 80 hrs on it and the price was $1500, sold quickly in the end of august.  

There is a Kansui on here now and a Madake on eBay.

Both are 500 to 600 hours though so well used.

$12500 for the Blue Wing cart @chakster .
That is some serious dough!
Just go for the Red Sparrow which is only $16900!

yep, some people like it like that, lol
since it was developed by ex Grace (Shinagawa Musen) engineer i will stick to the vintage Grace top models instead.

But anyway, Madake and Snakewood Miyajima are also very expensive cartridges if they are new.
This month very low hrs Kansui has been sold for $1500 and it's a steal! Sadly i was late.  

$12500 for the Blue Wing cart @chakster .
That is some serious dough!
Just go for the Red Sparrow which is only $16900!

Ouch...

Vinyl savor, Is your D3A phono stage a current-driven type? Thx.

Lyra cartridges with its fully open cantilever is so easy to bent/damage. One of the most dangerous cartridge to own, really. Definitely not for everyone.

One of the very special and very best cartridges out of Japan is MIYABI by Takeda-San, here is the review. The latest incarnation was made for 47 Labs, another review here.

Another interesting one recommended by no other than J.Carr (Lyra owner) is brand new Top Wing coreless-flux, there are two models available.

Thz Thomas for advice, will look out for a Lyra. ^^

Hi!

I like Lyra carts

Thomas

@nicknick look for Miyabi (any model) 

Hi Thomas, thanks for confirming my suspicion. I was concerned with Madake’s internal impedance also. Any other not-so-expensive cartridge you can suggest?

Hi Nick,
Your D3a phono works best with cartridges with output impedance of 10Ohms or less and with output voltages of 0.3mV and up.
It will work also with carts in the 10-20 Ohms range but not optimally. The lower output voltage will also work but the higher the better. So in conclusion not the best match for your phono

Hi guys, I’m considering to get a Madake as a 2nd cartridge to spread out the wear on my expensive Koetsu Blue Lace Diamond Cantilever. Any idea it will work well with my Kuzma 4Points arm & Thomas Mayer D3a phono stage? I like an open sound with pin-point imaging. Thanks!!

@wynpalmer4 
Ana did a (part)bamboo cantilvered retip for me of a Premium BE 1.0 mono and to my ears it out performs my standard Zero 0.7, especially since I started using the MIyahia ETR-Mono SUT (which is a must with these cartridges - it's out and out stunning).

I  wouldn't send a Madake to any of them if you expect to get a cantilever made of aluminum and madake which is what miyajima-san claims is the reason for the sound. 

I wouldn't personally send a Madake to either NWA or Expert.
Ana Mighty Sound in France seem to be the high-end retip specialists in Europe these days.

Oddly enough, my interactions with Andy, which have not been extensive, have been very pleasant and professional. Perhaps he's worked on his "bed side manner". Yes, they're not exactly the same stock, but darn close and yes, its not a shibata but a linear contact stylus but my listening/measurements are very similar to a stock Miyajima with the cantilever resonance/amplitude being in the same place, more or less, and with the same amplitude, and the alignment of the device is spot on so he managed to put it together without disturbing the damping elements or the coils, which is not an easy thing to do. The Shilabe has  a pronounced cantilever resonance peak in the high sonic/low ultrasonic range, the Kansui is much less pronounced, and the Madake is between the two- although my second device measures/sounds peakier than the first. These choices were made by Miyajima-san and help "tailor" the sound of his cartridges.
So, if you don't want to cough up the big bucks for at least the Shilabe, and I would expect the Kansui too, Andy does a fine job.

@wynpalmer4 I know, but that case was more about Andy's personality, so for me he's no longer in the list of retippers. 

Anyway, i think it's not a good idea to service Madake at anyone else, but the Miyajima Lab. And it's sad that Miyajima's service is less affordable now.  

As for the lower model i'm sure that changing one aluminum cantilever to another is not exactly the same. Alumimum cantilevers are different too. The best about Miyajima was the cheap factory retipping/refurbishing service, it was possible only several years go, but not today. 

Well, I'm not alone in having had good experiences with Needle doctor, and I used him because of recommendations that I received from other satisfied customers who had him re-tip high end MCs.
Sometimes things happen, no matter who it is. 

After the accident (with rare Technics cartridges) described by one of our member few years ago, i would never deal with Needle Clinic and wouldn't advice it to anybody else. 

There are many retippers with good reputation such as Expert Stylus and NorthWest Analogue is UK, SoundSmith in USA ... etc 

Hi, I have a "retipped" 60 hours Shilabe, a Kansui with 600 hours and two Madakes, one of which cannot be officially "retipped" (it was purchased outside the US) with is c. 500 hours and a new one with 20 hours which can be "retipped".
The Shilabe is actually my third, the first I bought from Miyajima-san in Japan in the pre-importer days, then a retip (swap) from the importer, and then the latest retip which was a real retip performed in the US.
The swap retipping is 40% of the retail price or about $2360 for the Madake according to Robin Wyatt who imports them.
The cartridges all can be retipped for c. $650 by Andy Kim at the Needle Clinic, who redid the Shilabe with a comparable aluminum cantilever and diamond. The cartridge measured the same after his work as it did before, and seemed to sound the same- taking into consideration the play time. Andy is extremely knowledgeable and helpful- and a fast worker.

The Madake retip from him wouldn’t have the, well, madake, and probably would really be a Kansui, so the Madake will always cost a fair bit to replace.

By the way, has anyone measured the frequency response of these cartridges? I’m having issues with my second Madake being too bright, and the response is anything but flat in the top end (>+7dB at 18kHz!). I’ve measured all of them using my system, and none of them are, well, exemplars of an ideal response, but the second Madake is a bit much.

Well, I'm a huge fan of the SPU Royal N (this is my third and I swore I wouldn't sell it again). All the Miyajima stereo cartridges have a debt to the SPU series, so there is something of a common character, but much as I love the SPU, the Madake has an 'ahhh that's good' kind of rightness about it when I put it in - it's not any more detailed or punchy than the SPU, but it's just so musical.

The Ikeda is a different thing entirely. If you know the Decca London cartridges you'll know about seat of the pants presentation, it's compelling listening (if a bit exhausting). The Ikeda takes this vividness and kicks up up a gear. Great for showing off equipment and hearing the ultimate detail that's on a record. But the Miyajima beats it for musicality and enjoyment. That's not to say that it's missing anything, but that the whole is more organic and believable. The 9C is a superb cartridge though in its own terms.

This on a pair of Ikeda tonearms btw (my TD124 MkII currently has an older model Ikeda IT-407 12in arm at the back, and a post 2011 Ikeda IT-345 CR1 9in arm at the side on the main armboard.

@montesquieu I also have SPU Royal with Replicant 100 stylus, how do you like this cartridge compared to Madake? Ikeda 9c is in my wantlist too.  

Indeed the 'replacement' service seems very expensive and has rather changed the equation for Miyajima as a practical long-term purchase. It's my hope that this is a glitch based on incomplete understanding of the market, rather than a long-term strategy.

I had a Miyajima Premium retipped by Ana Mighty Sound in France (well, actually a complete new cantilever with 1.0 spherical diamond). The work was first class, if expensive.

At one point Ana were also working on stereo Miyajima cartridges but have given that up as they claim the way Miyajimas are constructed, it's too hard to get reliable results to the standard they wish to provide to customers. I haven't heard of anyone else prepared to re-tip them and I would personally be skeptical that this can be done - if  Francois and his colleagues can't do it then I'd personally doubt whether anyone can.

It's my understanding that the limitation relates to how things are bonded together in the manufacturing process, so it may well be that replacement with new 'works' - keeping only the cartridge body - as provided by the factory, is the only reliable way forward.

It would certainly explain Miyajima's replacement-only policy, but not necessarily the price charged - for example Audio Note UK do much the same with their Io cartridges (keep the metal body and magnets, but replace the inner 'works') - but given the relatively expensive purchase price the service/replacement cost is quite modest, encouraging owners to see an Io as effectively a lifetime purchase rather than a consumable. I do hope Miyajima reflect on the current situation and do the right thing.

I currently have four Miyajima cartridges - a Madake, a Zero 0.7, a Premium 1.0, and an Kotetu 78. I am currently pondering the purchase of a Takumi for less-critical listening (so that the Madake doesn't wear out too fast). But I might just stick with my SPU Royal N for that.

I already have an Ikeda 9C III for high days and holidays - used sparingly, again for reasons of wear avoidance (Ikeda Sound Labs no longer service these older, Ikeda-san built models). I would hate to have to put the Madake in the same 'occasional use only' category because of fear of the cost of the inevitable rebuild.

Anyone can explain the Miyajima Retip Service ?
In 2014-2015 Miyajima Lab provided relatively cheap retipping service for their own cartridges via distributors.

Yesterday i’ve been told that Miyajima Lab changed to replacement years go. So if anyone would like to retip they have to replace the whole cartridge for new one at 80% of the retail price. Well 80% is too much and unacceptable for many users i believe. Sad news. 

Has anyone tried the aftermarket retipping for Miyajima? Seems like its the only reasonably priced option for normal people. 

Well is a year long enough to talk about experience?

My conclusion is that the Madake is the most natural cartridge I've ever had in my system (compared to Audio Note Io2, assorted high-end SPUs, Koetsu Red Standard and Sig, various Shelters, Dynavectors. Ikeda 9TT etc).

As I wrote above 'the Kansui's way with openness, naturalness and ease, turned up a notch'. Yup can't improve on that characterisation. Still only the A95 has approached it. I have moved the dial on the EAR 912 back from the 40 ohm setting to the 12 ohm one, raising the level of presence very slightly, but that's the only change of note in a year.

Having said that, don't know about in the US but in the UK Miyajima prices have increased substantially, as have rebuild prices. Not sure they are quite the attractive proposition as they were a year or two back.

Montesquieu,  First impressions are not always lasting ones. Especially with a phono cartridge that is itself changing character as it breaks in from new.  I would be interested to know whether your opinion of the Madake vs the Kansui persists over time.  Thanks.

Coming rather late to this thread. Along with a stable of SPUs (stereo and mono) and an Ikeda 9TT currently I have previously owned the Miyajima Waza, Shilabe and Kansui, as well as mono models Kotetu, Premium BE, 78 and Zero. (I still have the Zero and Premium 78 - to the chap with the Zero I would suggest running it at the top end of the recommended VTF range in a very heavy arm - I find no issue with detail vs quite a number of mono cartridges past and present).

Anyway the Madake .. this arrived a few days ago to replace the Kansui, and while I wouldn't say it's night and day it definitely offers something over the Kansui (as indeed the Kansui did over the Shilabe). First thing is its remarkable tracking ability this tracks any obstacle test and hasn't broken sweat with any music recording I've thrown at it. It is noticably better/easier than the Kansui in this regard.

It also has the Kansui's way with openness, naturalness and ease, turned up a notch. Back to back you might just think the hifi was having a good night - character is very similar to Kansui - but it's a good night that is consistent, and turned up a notch. It digs out a lot of detail too but not in a 'hifi' way that the Ikeda can seem to do at times. It has as before a lot in common with the top end SPUs, closest is probably the SPU A95 I heard recently.

I am running it on my EAR 912 at the '40 ohm' setting which I think is about 500 ohms at the trafo - slightly higher than the recommended 200 ohms which sounds fine, my '12 ohm' setting gives about that I think - but the 40 ohm setting is a shade more open, relaxed and spacious.

All this on an Ikeda IT345-CR1 tonearm/headshell, I haven't tried it yet on my Ortofon RMG309 Limited. I may get to that tonight.

@mhr1229 

My other favourite cartridge is the Cartridgeman MusicMaster, which is similar to the Madake in presentation but somewhat weaker in the bass and hence not as "muscular" in its presentation (the "budget" option).

That's interesting.
The Cartridgeman Musicmaster MI cartridge cost  £1,649.00 and looks similar to Grado cartridges. In fact the generator is Grado, but the stylus is different, they call it "Propriatery Line Contact". I've never owner Cartridgeman pickups, but i'm familiar with Grado house sound, the best i've heard is Joseph Grado's Signature model: Grado TXZ with very special stylus profile called "Twin Tip" (it was a $750 top of the line model back in the days) and probably better than current Grado cartridges of any kind, still cheaper than Cartridgeman.

I'll be surprised if Madake is close to Grado XTZ as you said it is close to Cartridgeman based on Grado MI generator. Hmm.