@geoffkait Actually, he was stealing all of my ideas. Damn, and just a day or two ago it seemed Geoff was leading @mahgister down the path as he was “going off the rails on a crazy train!” Two points for a reversal! Grasshopper 🦗finally snatches the pebble (uh, copper tape) from master......oh the humanity! Lawyers schmoyers, you simply cannot make this stuff up! Well worth the price of admission, and not a penny more! Encore....👏 |
Geoff sez ... - "Oregonpapa, actually it’s not just copper tape. Are you pretending to be dense?"
Hey, I resent that! I don't have to pretend to be dense. Uhh, what? Frank |
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Thanks, Geoff. I also use it to keep slugs and snails out of my vegetable garden, works a delight. Feel free to try it. Don't be a cube, rube. Go ape! |
I really value your opinion. 🙄 Actually, he was stealing all of my ideas. From crystals to Schumann frequency generator to unused wall outlet covers to window foils. You are not smart enough to think of it by yourself. That’s what China does, and Russia and North Korea, they steal it. |
Somebody put crazy powder in your blue plate special?? Anyone can use copper tape for any purpose they wish without fear of legal retribution within the limits of the law. I really don't think taping it to your speakers and windows qualifies as an illegal act or (ridiculous) patent infringement.
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Just as I suspected. Nobody here knows the law.
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Oregonpapa, actually it’s not just copper tape. Are you pretending to be dense? It’s a whole concept, an IDEA. MY IDEA. But I’m not going to explain it to you or argue with you. Because you wouldn’t understand anyway. Too many Dean Martin records or whatever. You’re on notice, though. All of you knuckleheads are.
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Nah. Boo ...
Copper tape is just copper tape. Copper on one side and adhesive on the other. You can buy it at hobby and crafts stores.
Frank |
Patent law clearly states that people are within their rights to make an example of the given patent, for investigatory purposes.
Discussion is also not forbidden nor curtailed.
When it is made by one, and for another... that is when patent law, be it process or device that is patented... that is when patent law steps in and protects the patent holder.
Intellectual rights on an idea.... is a bit more slippery than that.
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I am sorry you think this way... I will quit this thread ...I lost my will to discuss any further... |
That’s ancient history, my friend, BEFORE it became my product later that year. You do know the laws regarding the internet and intellectual property, right? Better get a lawyer.
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I dont contest your right at all... I only speak about copper tape here... and I read it first on forums ...My only problem I think is I thank you for the idea...I thank you for these posts a last time and I go on with any tweaks to experiment with ...
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As I said legally I own the rights to the idea at the present time. That’s past history from 2013, my friend. Take it up with your lawyer. You have laws in your country, right? I give you only what I wish to give. |
Ok Read where you give yourself the idea FREE to ALL first in 2013...I am only an audiophile who read forums about tweaks...Like this one for ALL to read...And I was not in any way here in the obligation of thanking you but I did it before today for all to read...What do you want exactly? https://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html?forum=tweaks&n=186552&highlight=copper+tape&r=&search_url=/cgi/search.mpl
By the way I borrow the idea about crystals(tourmaline) from Unclestu, thanks to him, ( now deceased) on the same forum, but my experiments go far away than what he did (the cabled connected grid +S.G. is my idea)... Is my right to experiments with what he said on this forum his intellectual property? |
It’s all my idea, no one else’s. You’re neither an engineer or a lawyer. My products and ideas are protected by law. |
I never contest the primacy and originality of your experiments Geoffkait, it is all in my thread for most to read about … But here I discuss also a part of my own experiments and yours also but also others experiments from all audiophiles to partake for the benefit of all, the copper tape is for all to bought... You own the design of the "flying saucer" not the tape... |
Ok I listen to the speakers for the last hour with some copper tape vertically along the 2 sides front of the speakers and I dont know for sure, but I sense a better imaging....Anyway I will had more with longer listenings sessions at normal distance, for now I am in near listening … Thanks Oregonpapa... |
Frank got it from Perfect Path who copied it from me. I don’t like it when people try to profit from my ideas. |
mahgister On the outside of the speaker cabinets. Frank |
Somewhere Geoffkait on this forum I read your advice to somebody, I dont remember the tread, about copper tape, free of charge... You cannot ask royalties for copper tape....And I read also others that know about this tweak...Like Oregonpapa…
1,
you add some "magic" to your copper band, and your band is different from the tape I bought...Your intellectual property are the "designed "flying saucer" with their particular geometrical form...
Or 2,
the tape I bought and your copper band are the same, except for the geometrical shape...
I dont know what is true...
But nevermind which is the truth 1 or 2, you cannot ask me money for the copper tape I bought...After reading your site and some other people that added that to their tweaks, I have decided to experiment with that...And my thread is about "tweaks" nevermind the mouth where they come from...And by the way I mention you few times and thank you about that for others to know...
"The generally good" Mahgister :)
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The products are my intellectual property. When am I going to get royalties? In your country it’s OK to steal ideas? I don’t care if you are on welfare and living in a tree.
- generally good geoffkait |
For sure the copper foil tape is an idea I takes from your site GeoffKait...I already thank you for that... I imitate the Master for sure... oregonpapaDo you means opening the speakers box and placing the copper band inside? or can I put it at the exterior side? Putting the copper band yesterday on the glass or metal surface in my room, and not only on windows or on the wall sockets like you said gives me a better separation but mostly a better dynamic very audible principally in the normal distance of speakers listening.... |
mahgister ... If it won't mar the finish on your speakers, try the copper foil tape on the inside sides of the speakers in various locations. There's another possible improvement to be had there. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- geoffkait ...
It continues to amaze me how many folks will just laugh, scoff and dismiss these ideas without trying them for themselves. I mentioned the glass cabinet doors on the dining room cabinets. There's four of them. I found that just by leaving one of them halfway open, I get an improvement. It acts like another room treatment. My friend Robert discovered that when I inadvertently left it open during a listening session one night and he was sitting in the sweet spot.
Frank |
I’m always encouraged when folks copy my ideas like using copper tape around the room. Machina Dynamica’s Flying Saucers for Windows and Flying Saucers for Unused Wall Outlets have been around for quite some time, since 2013. But a word of caution. They are not what they seem. I hold the secrets, I’m afraid.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. 🤡 |
oregonpapaIt seems that your advice was indeed very good... I have many reflective surface in my audio room and I applied to them the copper band tape and after one hour of listening the improve in S.Q. is evident...More so audible in the regular speakers listening distance than in nearfield...I have metal plate, and glass reflective surfaces where I tape the copper band and thanks to you I enjoy now more than ever the regular distance listening position for my speakers... |
oregonpapaThanks greatly for this confirmation and participative advice that will help me and all others... I will try this with some reflective surface ( I had already use them with windows and wall sockets).... My thanks to you, and the best for you... |
Mahgister ... The lengths we go to in order to improve our sound systems seem rather silly to many. But ... proper tweaking can really make the difference between a so-so system and one that approaches world-class. You mentioned using copper foil. I have small copper foil strips around the edges of my large living room (the listening room) windows. Same thing with the artwork on the walls. They are covered with glass and are a reflective surface. Same with the glass fronts on the built-in cabinets in the adjoining dining room. Tim Mrock, the owner of Perfect Path Technologies turned me on to that tweak about two years ago, and it did help with the SQ. Frank
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Thank you thecarpathian, your soul is for me a great sign of the heart... I accept your Mate with thankful recognition... |
mahgister, I am still reading with interest your experiences in your meticulous experimentation. I once again doff my hat and raise a glass of yerba mate to you! |
I will go with it soon but now is not the time for me...
Do you imagine what people here will say if I report here with these "crazy experiments" ? That will kill this dying thread, and the goal of this thread is to be hijack by more knowledgeable people than me for the benefit of all (me included)… There is no pleasure for myself ranting alone here.... After all there is not many threads here with this set of goals isn't it? |
Generally useful geoffkait send Greetings🖖 from future. Maybe not your future, but future, nevertheless. Future have no audio forum so I come back here, mostly for jokes. It’s funny. When I was little boy and told people I was gonna be a comedian, everyone laughed at me. Well, no one’s laughing now!
Oh, I’ve been meaning to ask, how’s your experiments with mind-matter interaction coming along? You know, the .... message labels.
Your friend and narrator, Placebo Domingo
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It does not seems that there exist many people here to confirm or concur with "my only discovery"...
People seems more busy in their audiophile life to look for buying new stuff than to pause and think: Is my actual audio system sound at his potential level sound quality? is it useful to buy any new gear before pushing my actual system to his true limit ?
Except the ubiquitous and " generally" useful Geoffkait, it seems that my thread will die by my own hands.... I hope some other guys with experience and experiments already in a road going toward the same conclusion as mine will lead this thread...
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I was like that 7 years ago, desesperate to accomplish my dream of an audio system at least very good if not more than that...
I wander trough many audio forums where posters of fanboy of all kind of trademark new products or vintage one sometimes helped me, many times not really...I was desesperate because the unconscious programs were new hi-fi products only are necessary and sufficient by themselves to accomplish that dream...
But after many deceiving results with new products, and broken promises, and the impossibility to accomplish my dream with only the money I lacked (I dont have this luxury) I begin to think and read about tweaks, vibrations controls, room design, EMI and RFI cleaning, and stones and crystals also and about many exotic product, expansive one with crystals for example promising the audio moonshine...I decide to replicate some results homemade at low costs because it was the only possibility without purchase money to begins with...
It takes me some years of experiments, not too complicate, one at a times, each result constructed with the preceding one, and at the end my dream was there for the last months... A very good audio system (Very good without being pricey) for the first time of my life...
I start this thread only to inspire some people because when I begins I was desesperate to look for sound and inspiring advices other than "buy this miraculous trademark that will solve all problem" or other than only necessary but straight "technical informations about impedance etc"...
Nevermind what you owns, probably good or very good products already, the only road to audio heaven is linked to the cleaning of negative resonance, decreasing the noise level of the audio system grid but also of the house electrical grid, and linked to the acoustic treatment of your room... I dont even speak about special tweaks like Helmholtz bottles or Schumann Generator for example and other minor remarkable tweaks...
Even if your audio system is worth 100,000 bucks, without that 3 ways necessary working roads and some of these other tweaks, you dont know what your audio system optimal potential is... That is my only discovery...
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Agree. It’s called mass hypnosis. 😳 😳 😳 😳 Just check out any thread currently running on interconnects, fuses, directionality, isolation - anything that is more than one Sigma away from the what the average dude accepts as his belief system. Please, no agree emails, I’m not talking about religion. Deprogrammers are standing by.
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One of my big surprize looking at photos of reviewers using many different gear, or just audiophiles, was the few indications in the photo about the care to isolate, damp, and controls, vibrations and resonance...More than that the carelessness about the electrical embedding of the audio grid, and the more evident carelessness about the acoustical embedding in the room, that is more important sometimes than the choice between 2 trademark speakers...And the absence of tweaks to improve sound is the last worry for these crowds...On many forum almost all discussion is about the merit of different trademark products...
My advice is : You already owned good gear most of the times, think about low cost methods to improve it ...
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Thanks for your interest...I am very happy to make you happy....
People are in general very proud of the "appearence" of their gear... if you put some stones, and homemade tweaks on top of your gear that is already stocked tightly on your desk, amp+dac+speakers+computer screen, that dont make pretty and easy pictures...For me only count the final sound quality...I dont give a damn for the look...My audio system was my experiment in the making for the last years...I own the same dac for almost 2 years now, the same amplifier for the last 4 years, the speakers for the last 2 years, only the headphones (8) has been regularly "upgraded" without complete satisfaction, except for the last 2 : particularly the orthodynamic Fostex T10...
Then the change I have gained with installing these many controls means, tweaks and methods, were way more impactful than changing an already good piece of gear if carefully choosen... This is the reason I started this thread... To partake ideas....To demystify the conditioned reflex urging us to upgrade at all cost before even thinking to make our already good gear better with low cost tweaks... |
@mahgister i am not alone in the craziness, Geoffkait is with me also... True that....he is certainly showing you the path. This thread makes my day....could only be bettered if you were to post your system with pictures of all the zip ties, pebbles, labels, Brazilian crystals, copper tape, etc! - Nicely done. Carry on, please... |
Somebody can say to me thinking that my audio system need an upgrading that it will be better to change my dac or amplifier or even the speakers....
My answers is this:
Most of you, probably half of you readers, already owns pretty good system in all probability, and my experience and experiments allow me to assert that most of the sound quality of a system comes from not only of his inherent quality of design but also and mostly at the end from the treatment of the room and the house, the controls of resonance and vibrations, and the cleaning of the EMI and RFI, and from the tweaks decreasing the noise floor of the audio grid...Then upgrading only a link in my already good audio chain will be an illusory or a feeble upgrading compared to the cutting off the link between the audio system and the electrical grid...
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For sure there exist a limit where any tweaks will affect less and less the audible performance of an audio system, coming after many precedent tweaks that drive the system to his potential best sound... I think I am near this limit now and that the future for me is linked to a cutting off the link between the audio system and the electrical grid of the house... Perhaps this is a solution for me in the next months or years to come : https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ecoflow/delta-the-new-standard-of-battery-powered-generator |
I am happy to restore your faith in humanity....If you can restore mine it will be a perfect match.... |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQeOm3CuUFY
20:30>26:20 Stop listening to those dead white Euros. Feed those Fostex something that'll rattle the matter that matters. ;) (Yeah, I'm just a contrary sort of troll....an odd one, but somebody's got to do it....*G* Listen to the rest of it. Knock some dust off those woofs...) |
*clic*
"This episode of the Outer Limits: Audiophile Oddysey has been brought to y'all by Damitol. When your equipment refuses to bring you to orgasm, Damitol....
(Actually, this forum has restored a certain faith in humanity for me...it certainly wandered off into the dark corners...*G*) |
I will try that but not the same day.... :)
The change in the headphone is staggering....unmistakable...More coherency in the soundstage...Better dynamic, more transparency...
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Tip - you can make labels using the red pen, THESE FOSTEX SPEAKERS ARE GREAT AND > O.K. and attach one label to each speaker cabinet. That way you can remove the labels to AB the effects. You can also put a label YOUR NAME > O.K. on each speaker. Especially good to cover the brand name of the speaker with a label.
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Ok the improvement of the soundstage and imaging is plainly evident also in my headphone....I am more baffled than with the speakers... Because the form of the soundstage is not the same than yesterday...
The black tie-wraps is working and the cell modification also perhaps...Incredible...Am I insane?
It is a feeble consolation to think that i am not alone in the craziness, Geoffkait is with me also...
Nevermind, I am in love more and more with my Fostex T10 headphone...By the way I listen to this cd for the last 45 years : David Munrow, the Early music consort of London, The art of the Netherlands, a pure "chef d’oeuvre" of recreation... |
I wanted to try another experiment with the copper tape but I will wait tomorrow for not interfering with this one... the tie-wrap one and the cell phone one...
More I listen now more I am in love, this is a sign of some improvement in nearfield and at normal distance, I perceive an improvement in the soundstage and imaging...But I dont know for sure what is the part of the tie-wraps and the parts of the modified cell that is always near me...
...When I listen to the sound, it is my unconscious that make the analysis not my conscious mind, and I listen to the voice of my unconscious through my feeling, and after my feeling change for the best or the worst I know that there is something changing in my audio system for better or worst...Many people listen with their conscious mind, and they perceive nothing or very little with no confidence...I makes all the tweaks experiments in this mood with almost always running the way through some new improvement, incrementally one after the other...
The "positive bias" or the placebo effect cannot explain all the change that is perceived by many people not only me in my audio system for sure...
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I wrote that exactly: " part of my audio system this cell sound good"
First impression are good, but I cannot vouch that my sound is better, but I like him more... :)
By the way I dont know about you, but Mother Nature know me first-hand...
I will be damned but I think my sound is better....Ouf I am not sure of my sanity anymore....
I listen now to my speakers..In the evening I will listen with my beloved Fostex and I will know for sure with more confidence...
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Yes, you have to ask Mother Nature to help you. 🤗
Another message that should help is, all caps!
YOUR NAME (first initial + last name spelled out) > O.K.
You want Mother Nature to know who you are. 😀
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Thanks very much for infos I will try it...
I will write:" this cell is part of my audio system and sound good"....I cannot fool Mother Nature only asking her to work with me...
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