Dear T_bone, ...;^) .... what went unnoticed by Raul's sharp ears and eyes once again, is the fact that I listed a few good purely mechanical and physical arguments to go with the Ikeda silver litz (which I neither distribute nor make myself ...).
Big problem with the Ikeda silver litz is, that you don't get it cheap nor with considerable discount anywhere (if any fellow Audiogoner does know a cheap source ... I would be happy to learn).
In an inner tonearm wiring I look for the same as in every other component or part in the audio chain: - objective technical features and quality aside from all individual "sonic taste" or "liking in my set-up".
Real physical quality never gets out of date.
After all, a cable is a stranded wire.
The purity of it's metallurgy and the care in production are key to it's conductivity - at least to the last small percentage and with the lowest current or voltage (speaking of LOMCs ...). Pure silver has the highest standard AES conductivity - aside from supra conductors working with ultra low temp cooling.
Now add an insulation which is ultra flexible AND needs no strapping (which in most cases does some inevitable surface damage to the conductor) and you can hardly ask for more.
At least not regarding performance in the old school meaning of the term.
If however one need the tonearm wiring to "match", "blend" or "synergize" with the sound of a given "set-up", "cartridge/phono stage" or one's "idea" of how it "should sound" - then there are certainly many more options (about as many as audiophiles on this planet..) and a much wider selection in tonearm inner wiring.
Isn't audio great ?!
Cheers,
D. |
Raul,
The 'link' you provided appears to be from your own hard drive. |
Dear Logenn: As Thuchan pointed out the best " solution " is goes from very up-front ( tonearm-cartridge connectors. ) down to the phono stage input ( no SUT Thuchan because there are, between other things, additional " joints ". ).
I already tested no less than 20 different tonearm wires ( internal wire. ) and there are several that IMHO are better performers ( neutral. ) than the Ikeda one that I tested too.
Two of them are the Audio Note ( UK. ) and this one:
file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Ra%C3%BAl/Mis%20documentos/silver%20wire.htm
That Dertonarm used in the last 20 years the Ikeda IMHO only menas that in that subject he does not grow-up/improve.
Crystal that you are using is very good too as is Nordost one.
Btw, as usually I'm not commercialy biased on this internal wire subject.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
Dear Thuchan and Dertonarm- Appreciate your thoughts on the silver Ikeda wire for the Max 282. I should receive it this week and we may have a listen to it for a few weeks. I have a Dynavector XV 1S just back from Soundsmith and I may try this cartridge in the Max with a Crystal Cable tonearm wire.
I have been thinking about rewiring my Audio Craft 4400 to silver wire for some time and perhaps i should have it done as well.
I am also still in shock at how good the rx 5000 is performing. I am using it with a thread as recommended by Dertonearm.
All very good stuff.
|
Hi Ddriveman,
I give all my arms for rewiring to Dertonarm, it`s not cheap but you can trust the quality for years. I always go for new DIN-connectors, the old ones you may send to the moon. Some guys use them again due to "vintage& original design". They never anticipate you open up the arm again...
best & fun only - Thuchan |
Dear Logenn, IMHO the Ikeda silver inner wire is the best of all worlds. Very flexible, very pure, pretty heavy gauge and superb insulation which can (if one knows how) be stripped without the slightest harm to the conductor.
I use Ikeda inner wire since 20 years now and had nothing but the very best results with it.
Most of the great tonearms from the past to suffer from poor inner wiring.
If you look at several top-flight-tonearms of today, you see that many of them sport inner wiring of high caliber and sometimes even prime trademark.
It certainly is an essential part of their performance.
In tonearm we are dealing with the lowest and smallest (read: most fragile) incarnation of the audio signal.
Careful inner wiring with highest conductivity metal is kind of "clearing the alley for the sonic parade".
Cheers,
D. |
Dear Nikola, headshell leads should - as well as the phono-cable - be silver as well to preserve the minute details. In any case - it is a chain that transports a signal which gets spoiled, altered and diminished during its path through several terminals, cables, passive and active components, solder joints, networks etc. Every single step/part in this chain which you alter to transport the signal with less alternation, will sonically pay off.
Especially here in the very beginning of the path, where the signal from a LOMC is a fraction of a millivolt in voltage and similar low current.
To use a conductor with as high as possible conductivity is only logic in my point of view.
Hand -in-hand with this rewiring goes cleaning of the solder points and re-soldering with lead free 10% silver solder.
Cheers,
D. |
Logenn, welcome to the fascinating world of Nihon`s best turntable manufacturer ever! Also the Coralstone is a wonderful cartridge and your Max is a perfect match.
Regarding the silver cables: It is nearly not possible to get Kondo silver litz for tonearm rewiring, the same with Crystal Cable. Both are excellent cables. In case of the Kondo it is very difficult to work with them cause every single filament is covered with thin plastic you have to unsolder. Usually it should be done by Kondo themselves or by some special dealers having the Kondo machine.
After rewiring you should also use silver wires in your headshell (Ikeda maybe). My best experience was with a SAEC 506/30 which was rewired from the cart`s pins (headshell) to the SUT (1,2 meters). No interfaces at all.
Enjoy this world. It is different!!! glad having you on board.
best & fun only - Thuchan |
Thuchan, Dertonarm,
I have a MAX282 and would like to rewire it. I have all 3 armwands (AU, SC and SM). IS it difficult? Do you know someone who can do it? Thnks |
Daniel and Eckert-I recently purchased a Max 282 and am reading this thread with great interest. Have either of you heard the Kondo silver wire vs the Ikeda silver? Since it is now clear that they need to be rewired, I certainly want to maximize its performance, as this is the next step.
Daniel I received my RX 5000 this week and am totally in love with it. With the limited time available, I was able to set up only an Audio Craft 4400 with Koetsu Coralstone, but this combination never sounded this good in any other turntable! If this is a precursor of what is to follow, I will be in heaven.
Now I finally understand your fascination with this wonderful sounding beast. |
Dear Daniel, As you know I am a careful but also skeptical
reader. They fit together I will hope. My question: in the front of the headshell we have ,say, 8m coppper wire on the 'bobin' or the plate for the coils in the cart. At the back of the rewired 'wand' or tonearm tube we have,say, 1m
phono-cable. I want mention all the soldering points. How can +/-40 cm. of Ikeda silver wire in between be of such invluence for the sound?
Regards, |
I just got returned a fully rewired Micro Tube XP-282. The Ikeda silver wire - even if some people believe it should be a Hongkong replica ( the results speak a different language) is such a huge improvement that I sometimes regret what users are missing driving their Micro and SAEC tonearms with the original copper litz.
best & fun only - Thuchan |
Opus111, as said before in my earlier post, both tonearms do feature what I consider "worst case scenario-inner wiring". Coaxial with a mixture of gauges and copper/copper-steel litz-wire. Add the additional connector - with two more solder joints and two different material transitions - and you have the reasons for the sonic downgrade.
Versatility and additional features requested those additional connectors, but the poor coaxial inner leads are an irksomeness in tonearms of this built-quality and price tag.
Cheers,
D. |
Opus 111,
i wonder a little about your assessment of the Max. I do remember when having owned a 237 some fifteen years ago and when i compared it with a modern arm it lacked some transparence and push. Neverheless it provided a good soundstage. I sold it due to changing my system. I always thought how might it have sounded with a good internal wiring.
When I was offered the EA-10 - and it reminded me of the Max by good reasons - the silver-rewiring had very good results. So I started the next project with the Max 282. Gosh - what a difference, and what kind of
improvement. Of course some time had passed since the "old assessments".
You need to hear a rewired Max and you will change your opinion at the same moment I am sure. Try it!
Best & Fun Only - Thuchan |
Opus111,
I am sorry they did not work for you. My experience has been different.
Thanks Daniel,
I have little soldering experience, almost no tools, but can avoid coffee when necessary. :^) |
Dear Travis, not easy, but if you have any experience, good tools and not too much coffee the day, it will be a work of 3-4 hours. You need a SMD-tip for the solder iron, very precise temperature regulation and very small gauge solder.
The main body can be re-wired too - I've made it once ...;-) .... not fun, not easy and requiring quite some time and patience.
Cheers,
D. |
Never heard the EA-10 but having owed both Max 282 and 237 multiple times, I'd say it is one of the worst sounding tonearms I have heard. Bright and sterile would be the right words to describe the sonic character. I would've still kept them if they sounded half as good as they looked.
FR-64 sounds 10X better at lower used price. |
Daniel,
How difficult is it to rewire the EA-10/EA-3 armwands? The EA-3 straight armwands have a small screw near the connector which looks like it could be used to undo the connector, but given the size, it looks like a very small-tipped soldering iron would be required. I assume the wiring inside the main body of the arm (i.e. the part other than the armwand) is left as-is? |
Dear Downunder, having re-wired both the EA-10 and the MAX-237/282 at least 3 times each (mostly with IKEDA silver PTFE insulated litzwire, I can testify that the stock inner wire of both tonearms is rather a sonic downgrade.
Both do feature pretty decent and un-symmetrical coaxial pvc-insulated copper wire inside which does not allow to show off their sonic virtues. The shield of that coaxial wire is used as "-" and is different gauge AND different material mix (steel/copper). It is not so much the wire which does need some time to settle, it is rather the solder joints.
Given the very tiny signal voltage (not to mention the micro current) of a LOMC, I regard silver wire inner wiring in a tonearm a conditio sine qua non if you really want all details buried in the groove brought to the preamp's RIAA.
Cheers,
D. |
Downunder, yes the silver improved substantially. I did it also with my Max 282. It is absolutely worth to do it. You then will have one of the top arms.
Fun Only - Thuchan |
Thuchan, the EA-10 is anything but bright.
Sounds like the Silver wire you have transplanted has tilted the sound. Did the silver settle down? |
T-Bone,
it seems to me the EA-10 tonearm is such rare as the wonderful Exclusive P10 TT is you are owning. Maybe because everything of the fantastic built technology this TT as well as the tonearm provides is covered by the plinth, so everyone was thinking this is just a standard Japanese direct drive table of the late 70ties, 80ties.
When Micro showed up with its big machines and the Max 237 (It was my first tonearm on the 8000, I sold it because the wiring was old copper 10 years ago and I went for newer designs- what a misleading error) this mark was buried in oblivion.
And to be honest - Pioneer was not an exclusive mark (of course it´s high end branch was - what a name game)to most audiophiles and is not in the high end analogue field anymore to my knowledge.
The EA-10 I am using on my Micro is rewired with Ikeda silver wire. It was not easy to find a bases for the Micro with such a big hole to carry the EA-10 massive block. The bases was built in Osaka in may this year.
Now this is my impresion with the Miyabi standard: Despite the silver is new and needs some time to be run in (I hear a little bright but rich sound) the overall picture is very stable, precise and with a deep soundstage. The EA-10 is one of my best old-design arms. |
Thuchan,
I have an EA-10 (on an Exclusive P10). I also have a Max237 (and would love to find the extra armwand to make it a 282 but the armwands are seriously expensive on the used market!). I would have said almost the same thing you did. The EA-10 and EA-3 arms (the one on the Exclusive P3) have an eery similarity to the Micro Max 237/282 arms.
I'd be interested in knowing your opinion upon listening.
I do not know the source of the arm, but I just now thought of someone who would know so will ask and revert. |
