@ghasley , great info. Any way you can compare the Amber 3 to the Cambridge audio 851N or Primaluna 100 DACs?
Sounds like you have too many DACs, so I'll help you out and take the Amber 3 off your hands (at a steep discount of course..LOL)
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@ghasley Thanks so much for the detailed comparisons... Super useful and really nice to read someone who doesn't feel compelled to defend themselves. Every component sounds different in different systems. Would love to try an Amber 3 now that you've described it... |
@ghasley
Do you know if the new engine in the Amber 3 is what is also in the Atlantic TRP upgrade? I own an Atlantic Plus and have wondered if the TRP upgrade is worth it. |
@facten The La Scala Optologic is a terrific dac. It has a very nice and sincere presentation. Its not too "showy" meaning the mids are the right scale and color, not over or under emphasized. The low end is nice and full without being plump. Just the right amount of overhang and decay. The high end is exceptional and frankly, I believe the high end bests the TotalDac Tube dac. Its a terrific dac.
The Amber 3 has a more pronounced low end and the mids, while not as pronounced as the Lampizators of yesteryear, is a bit more present than the Aqua. The high end is too close to call but the Amber 3 seems more layered and 3 dimensional to me than the Aqua. Where the Amber just has me shaking my head wondering how did they do it at this price point is in the area of tempo or jump factor. It just seems to have a little more PRAT or life to the music. Hey, it might all be due to something very minor like output voltage or something along those lines. The Amber 3 just feels a bit more dynamic I guess is how I would describe it. Not artificially so (like the Chord Dave to me).
Mine is a single ended unit so I didn't compare it against the balanced outputs of the Aqua. The Nagra and the TotalDac are a more "comprehensive" presentation but the gap between the Amber 3 and the aforementioned is closer than it has any right to be. Factor in the cost differential and I am left grateful that digital technology has matured so elegantly. I say this alot on Audiogon but aren't we all so very lucky to be enjoying a hobby where the small manufacturers have innovated things to such a degree? Peace to all.
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@ghasley
Can you describe the sound differences between the Amber 3 and the LaScala?
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ghasley, it's good to know that Amber 3 is that much better. Another nice thing about these DACs is that aside from tube rolling one could also upgrade passive components like capacitors to make them sound even better. I'll just need to wait until one comes up for sale in the used market. |
If I had been the VP of Marketing for Lampizator, I wouldn’t have named the new dac the Amber 3 but they were also likely trying to keep their naming conventions more consistent than in the past.
The Amber 2 I heard in the past(not in my system) sounded fine and the Amber 3 is literally a completely different animal to my ears. The new digital engine will challenge what you thought was possible for under $5-6,000. I am a R2R fan and I simply can’t believe this sound is possible from a ds chip. Mind boggling. Once again, I would place the Amber 3 on par with the Aqua La Scala Optologic dac for almost one third the money. Keep in mind, I wasn’t trying to decide which one to purchase, I already owned both along with the TotalDac. The Amber 3 is on par with the Aqua and it wasn’t embarrassed by the TotalDac.
Listen, everyone should buy and enjoy what they can afford and what they like. With that said, I don’t want what I’m trying to convey to come off as some comparative justification to feel good about purchasing one product over another. I still have many of the aforementioned dacs, I’m just trying to tell you what I am hearing in my home with these dacs. I’m happy with each purchase...they are all fine dacs but the Amber 3 is, in my opinion, a disruptive kind of product. It so blurs the the cost-benefit ratio that the law of diminishing returns shifts materially.
Choose to listen to one or don’t but make no mistake, the Amber 3 is not an upgraded Amber 2 to my ears. The Amber 3 in time may be considered an entry into the top tier of dacs rather than just an entry into the Lampizator line. If the Amber 3, the Aqua Optologic and my Totaldac were in my system at the same time, to my ears, you could remove any two of them and I would not get fussy. Its that good. YMMV.
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"My unit plays up to 24/192..."
Maybe yours is modified but the stock Orchid has a 16bit chip DAC. It does accept 24/192 but only outputs 16/44.1. As for the comparison with the LampizatOr, I have the older Amber not 3 and have compared it with the Orchid in my system. I thought they both sound very good but the Amber had a little more balanced sound, especially after I switched to better/NOS tubes. That said, if I were to buy either new, given the price difference I'd go for the Orchid unless the new Amber is significantly better than the older version I have. I doubt if its twice better than the Orchid. As mentioned before, I think Pagoda is a better option and worth the additional cost especially if your content is more from streaming than Redbook CD.
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The Amber is very interesting. I know they offer a trial at full price.....may try one 😊. I preferred the stock Orchid with an upgraded fuse and good power cord to the Aqua LaVoce S2. The upgrades I performed on the Orchid really do bring it to another level for reasonable cost really.
My comments on the AM dac are based on a friend trying one and comparing to an MHDT and LaVoce. It was an AM with upgrades that cost $1880. We have the same taste and he felt the AM dac was good, but not as full bodied as the others. We both desire a full bodied sound that stays clear of leanness and hyper detail. The AM dac was not far enough along the full bodied spectrum. He ended up with a LaVoce S3 which he says is better than the S2.
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@grannyring how true, how true!
I was not overly impressed by Lampizator dacs until the Golden Atlantic came along. Your assessment about their prior dacs is consistent with my memory although I never had one for any material length of time.
Was your Tubadour stock or did it have the upgraded caps, etc.? To be fair, try to remember the sound of your Orchid stock, before you modded it and upgraded it so considerably. The stock Orchid (prior to you infusing it with your magic touch) is not at the same level as the upgraded Tubadour. I cant comment on a stock Tubadour as I’ve never heard one. The Amber 3 granny, you really should hear it. Its quite an accomplishment given its price.
I hope your cable business is still thriving. I enjoy your Schroeder Method interconnects (I use them between a recorder and an integrated). Best to all. |
This is so subjective as we all know. I have not liked the Lampi sound in the past and owned and quickly sold two of their dacs. Are the new ones better for my tastes? Don’t know, but perhaps worth a try. Found them too forced and forward.
In my rig I would own the Orchid over the Aqua LaVoce S2 and Audio Mirror.
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Allow me to chime in if I may. I either presently own or have in the very recent past (this year) owned the following dacs: Chord Dave, Nagra Classic Dac, Lampizator Golden Atlantic, Lampizator Amber 3, Border Patrol Dac SE, MHDT Orchid, TotalDac D1-Tube-Mk2, Aqua La Scala Optologic, Audio Mirror Tubadour Mk3 with all the upgrades. In the distant past some of the better dacs I’ve had range from Cary 306 pro, Wadia 861se, McIntosh MDA1000 and I began experimenting with streaming in 2004 with a Macbook feeding the optical input of a Cary 306-200 cd player.
Yes, things have progressed mightily over the past 15 years and today I stream from an Innuos Zenith Mk3 using a FTA Callisto usb cable. We really are fortunate that there are so many wonderful choices available to the audio community for they are virtually all vastly superior to what could even be conceived of just a mere decade ago. I tend to appreciate the tubier side of the sound spectrum, I have 3 systems and have just this year owned (not borrowed) Nagra Classic and Pass Labs XA25 solid state amps and Audio Research Ref75se, Shindo, VTL , LTA and Leben amps on the tube side of the scale. Cabling is presently Tellurium Q and Auditorium 23 with Kubala and Cardas bounced in an out on occasion. With all of this in context, I would like to comment on this topic.
With all due respect to @teajay (and I do deeply respect teajay for his fearless advocacy of products he believes set a new bar) as well as the others here who have commented and in recognition that we all hear differently and every ancillary difference affects everything else, I offer the following observations. The MHDT Orchid and the Lampizator Amber 3 are both terrific dacs but in no way is the Orchid the equal to the Amber 3. Now, this is in my system, my room and my ears. My experience with these two dacs, side by side for an extended period leave me confident in this appraisal for the following reasons. The Amber 3 is so much more refined, dynamic and fully fleshed out that my belief is that this offering must be a loss leader for Lampizator. The bass performance is exceptional, a liquid, almost illuminated mid range is complimented with a delicate yet robust top end. Its really mind boggling, to me anyway, that they can sell this dac for less than $3,000!
The Orchid is an exceptional dac as well and if you are shopping at its pricepoint you can feel confident that you will enjoy your music and not be missing the party. Make no mistake though, the Orchid is not the equal of the Lampizator Amber 3. So, where would I place the Orchid among the dacs I have spent considerable time with? I would place the Orchid slightly ahead of the Border Patrol DAC SE (I have yet to experience the new SEI version). I prefer the Audio Mirror Tubadour to the Orchid and I prefer the Amber 3 to the upgraded Tubadour I have. I believe the Amber 3 is on par with the Lampizator Golden Atlantic and the Aqua La Scala Optologic, so close in fact that the minor differences are quite subjective in the smallest degree.
So, what should you do and which dac is right for you? You should arrange a listen to each and decide for yourself which you prefer. The Orchid is referred to by many as a giant killer and I guess it just depends on the giant it is facing. Without monetary constraints of any kind, I would consider the Orchid a superb dac unless I heard it back to back compared to the Audio Mirror Tubadour. The Tubadour is a better dac in every way to my ears than the Orchid. The Amber 3 is better still than the Tubadour, again to my ears, and you have to spend a whole lot more money to materially better its performance.
To be quite frank, if I compare the Chord Dave to the Amber 3 I prefer the Amber 3. The Dave has more features, it probably “measures better” to the crowd that decides before hearing for themselves which dac is better but it just isn’t as musically satisfying to me.
Buy what YOU like, there are alot of choices out there and they are all terrific in their own way. Good luck and peace to all. |
I have the Orchid and it sounds amazing. It is an easy best buy for sheer musicality and enjoyment of your music. I simply love mine and agree with upgrading to the WE tube.
If you upgrade the output caps and key resistors around the tube you will be treated with even greater sonics as this unit really responds to parts like Vishay Zfoil resistors and top grade output caps from companies like Miflex, Jupiter, Vcap and others.
My unit plays up to 24/192 as is a great match with my Innuos streamer and Qobuzz.
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If you want an MHDT DAC that will do hi rez, look no further than the excellent Pagoda.
Oz
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Probably not very helpful, but I have an audio mirror tubadour III se and have compared it to two ps audio products, both the perfectwave mk2 and directstream. I found it better in every regard... It's also in your price range. |
Don't know if the Orchid will be an improvement over the Nuwave DAC, which is an underrated yet excellent DAC. The Orchid is OK but nothing extraordinary or special, IMO, and only outputs 16/44, which may not be a concern of yours. But the only way you'll ever know is to buy the Orchid and decide for yourself whether or not it was worth it. I own the Orchid; PS Audio PW MkII, and Schitt Gungnir Multibit DACs. |
Teajay,
Thank you. I was sort of hoping somebody would say that.
- Bob
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I have heard both and reviewed the Orchard professionally. Both are very musical DACs. However, the Lampizator costs $1,550.00 more and is not a better sounding piece. If you get the Orchid spend 50 bucks and roll in a NOS Western Electric 396 and you will be in for a musical treat. |
