MHDT Orchid or Lampizator Amber 3?

In my experience the synergy “culprit” is often found in the cabling.  Often times a simple cable swap wether USB, IC, digital etc... can bring greater sonic harmony.  

 just a quick note about system matching.  Over the weekend I took my orchid up to my brothers place. In his system he has a rega CD player and an audible illusions preamplifier. One of their newer ones. Feeding into a big beefy parasound Power Amp and a pair of rega speakers. Don't know exactly which ones they are, but they're about 10 years old and they were around $1,500 a pair when they were new. Overall it's pretty good sounding system. But what I noticed was that in his system the Orchid really didn't sound that sweet. It sounded good, it sounded better than the DAC that came standard with the rega CD player but didn't sound nearly as smooth as what I'm hearing in my system. So I guess I am really in violent agreement with those who emphasize the criticality of system matching. If this had been the only exposure I had to the mhdt Orchid I would not have been impressed.

+3
My experience as well. Although I am using an adapter and a NOS Mullard ECC189/CV5331 which I have found to be superb in my Grannyring modded Orchid.

Has anyone tried a RCA Red Base 5692 ( 6sn7) with the Orchid?

Yes indeed.  Sweet little dac really. 

WE tube arrived today.
In and warmed up and playing.
Immediately a sense of more depth and body and certainly more mid bass impact.

Things are sounding good!

devilboy,
It sounded pretty fine and the sound was not too loud, bedroom for showroom, not the best conditions. A few systems used the LTA integrated.The Lampi Pacific with the monster VAC amp were amazing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ew2qb8FpI6Y
The Volti Audio room with Rival speakers, Border Patrol DAC and amp was special too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ew2qb8FpI6Y

Well I probably have 50 to 60 hours on the Orchid now and.....
Still was not really digging the sound.

Which leads me to .... Cables and if anyone needs any further proof of how different cables can bring a different flavor read on!

All of my IC are Straight Wire, PC are home made, SC are WE cable home made.

Well I had no more straight wire IC left so used a pair of XLO IC between orchid and amp... I should have known better.

Another pair of straight wire IC I had ordered were delivered this morning so I replaced the XLO with these and I'm floored at the difference!

A lot more warmth and body with seemingly no loss of detail or dynamic.

Now the fun can begin!

@devilboy 

Guessing not as LTA is offering a bundle package on its website - see link below

https://www.lineartubeaudio.com/products/spatial-m3-lampizator-amber3-lta-z10-integrated-caf-system

@denism  Did it sound as if the LTA Z10 had any problem driving the Spatials? Even though they are sensitive, I heard their impedance curve does not do well with lower powered amplifiers.

 I have a Mullard CV1988 from Swedish military  which is an OEM Osram metal base B65,will try as soon my adapter arrives.

I bought my Orchid second hand here, and it came with an assortment of tubes and DAC chips.  Being already "burned it" it sounded great from the moment I first inserted it in my system.  I haven't tried them all yet.  I have the original chip in and I think at the moment a  WE 396A tube.  It was only $35 for the 6SN7 adapter and I already had the Sophias, so it was a relatively cheap experiment, but the 6SN7 definitely was a change for the worse.

I always listen to Bill.....at least in this arena.

Hope to have the WE tube before the weekend, left the Orchid cooking last night on a playlist so will see today what it sounds like, should be just over 30 hours on it by now.

I bought an adapter to convert to a 6SN7 tube (I used a Sophia Electric) and gave it a brief tryout in my stock Orchid. I couldn't get it out fast enough. Not recommended. Should have listened to grannyring.

Love it! True that. 

Orchid on the way... What's life without a little risk

Ordered the WE tube from Fleabay.
Should have a few hours on the Orchid by the time it arrives.

I was worried when I first powered it up as it did not sound pleasant at all.
But literally 3  hours and it opened up very nicely.

Just got to keep burning it in overnight as I did last night for a few more days.

@big_greg i appreciate it. Thanks... 

The NT-505 is staying in my main system since it includes a streamer. I'm using the Orchid in my computer room with my PC as the source. I can't say I like one over the other and I'm not knocking the Vega, it's a great piece, I just like how organic the Orchid sounds. 

Have been lurking on this thread as I am trying to determine what DAC will be replacing my Schiit Gumby. (Running with a Line Magnetic LM-805IA SET amp and Spendors A7’s)

@big_greg so if I am reading you correctly you are saying that the Orchid > Vega and Teac NT-505 > Vega? Where does that leave the NT-505 vs the Orchid? I am particularly interested given how vastly different they are. Which one will be in your main system?

I have an Auralic Vega and the Orchid. They are both good DACS. The Vega is very neutral and detailed, while the Orchid sounds a little bit more "analog" and to my ears has more body. I haven't used them both in the same system, so my impressions may be influenced by the different systems they are in. The Vega was in my main system until my recent purchase of a TEAC NT-505. I'm leaning towards selling the Vega and keeping the Orchid if that tells you anything. 

Question for you all.  Do you think the Auralic Vega $3400 when new is a better piece of kit than the Orchid.  I ask because the LTA website says all DAC sales are final.  No 14 day trial..... 

I have a shot at getting a buddies Vega.  But the Orchid sounds enticing... A tube dac would likely fit well with my Modwright integrated. 

It sure sounds " broken" right now.

Just have to tough it out.

But another blow on the Aurender N100 I have though. Just discovered it does not support wma files. Only have about 95000........

Heard the Amber 3 at the Florida Audio Expo last Saturday. Same brands used in other shows ( Lampi, Innuos, Spacial Audio, Linear Tube Audio LTA Z10 Integrated and Anti-cables). Highly praised in the past, this combo sounded amazing for the price ( Less than $10k) And certainly one of the best during this weekend.

Stone cold both will sound a little closed in and constricted. After even 24 hours you will start to hear what they really sound like. The dac, cable  and tube need closer to 60 hours to get most of the way. 

Finally back home.
The Orchid and Bills USB cable were waiting for me !
Only had chance to connect them up and make sure it all works, not sure when I might get some critical listening in, hopefully tonight but the "honeydew" list is enormous.... lol.

what are the resistor values needed for the Orchid upgrade?

@grannyring 

Thank you for answer

@batenet.  Just use the 2.2uf Odam with the ..01uf Cutf.  Perfect combo for your system.  

Sorry. Typo! Yes 5x20mm

Want to try the Vcaps,what about the value if you have 50Kohm input impedance preamplifier.For best sound you can tweak the value for best match?

The SR Orange fuse should have the lettering going from the back of the unit to the front. Use a 1.6 amp, slow blow, 5x22mm.

@Is that supposed to be 5 X 20 MM?

@grannyring 

Thanks again

The SR Orange fuse should have the lettering going from the back of the unit to the front.  Use a 1.6 amp, slow blow, 5x22mm.   

The lettering flows toward the outer foil on the cap so the “V” is at the back of the unit. Thus,  the cap reads from the back of the unit towards the front. The outer foil faces the front of the unit.

I always add a .01uf Vcap Cutf in parallel to the 2.2uf Odam. The combo is magic in this dac. Pure magic! The caps need at least 24 hours before you start to hear what they are capable of doing. Figure 100 or so hours gets you just about fully broken in.

A question for grannyring regarding his V-Cap ODAM output capacitors 
installation:

Does the shorter lead (the outer coil) point in the direction of the front or rear of the Orchid?   Another way of putting it is, does the writing on the ODAM flow in the direction of the front or back of the Orchid?

Thanks in advance.

Have Orchid dac with SR orange fuse, Jantzen superior Z caps and Russian Reflector 6N23P Getter on wire silver shield 1975.Sounds very good in my system,much better than WE396.

rx8man
Interesting. Will that disc fit without displacing the top cover lid of the dac?


Bill (grannyring)....that's one of the things I admire about you. You incessantly keep an open mind, and are not afraid to tell it like you hear it. I don't have anywhere near the experience you or some others on this forum have (although I have been at it since the mid '70s), but I was thinking similarly....that jeez, this is best I have ever heard my music played - ever! Even from way back when I owned a very nice Linn Sondek set up. 

I am hearing the same thing here @stewg. It is remarkable how good this dac can be made to sound.  Right now it is my favorite dac! The resolution and purity coupled with the silent background and huge soundstage is so compelling.  I have not heard a better dac than this Orchid (outfitted with the upgrades and cv181z Tube)  at any price.  Period.  There, I just said it 🙂.  

Funny thing is is I have some other ideas on how to extract even more out of this wonderful design.  I will update all on my next round of potential upgrades to the power supply and beyond.  What a fun dac and brilliant design. 

I finally received my NOS Mullard ECC189/CV5331 (6DJ8 variant) a couple days ago. Without any burn in on the tube, I was loving what I was hearing. With a couple days of running the tube 24/7, things are sounding glorious. I had no interest in making any changes to my grannyring modded Orchid dac (with SR Orange fuse and Western Electric tube), but after reading rx8mans' posts and others on another blog who had tried a 6DJ8 variant tube, my inquisitiveness got the better of me. So I ordered the adapter and the Mullard tube, and now my Western Electric tube is in storage. I have to say - and I know it is a cliched statement - but listening to tracks I know very well is as though hearing them anew.  Liquid, smooth, inviting, lifelike, effortless, revealing of subtleties are all just some descriptors that come to mind. No need to modify the top plate; the Mullard sticks its' little head out of the top. I have no idea how this tube would sound in an unmodified Orchid dac; as I had written in a pm  to Bill (grannyring), it is my suspicion that his mods allow changes such as these tube types to really reveal what they are capable of, with the reduced noise floor of the dac. Actually, that is something that continues to amaze.....how 'quiet' the dac is, in the sense that the music emerges from a kind of sonic void.  Like a silent/stillness from which the sounds emerge. Beautifully addictive.

I placed the Shuguang Treasure cv181-z in the stock Orchid with the adaptor and did not like the sound at all. Very bright, forward and lacking warmth and bass. The cv181 already had 50 or so hours on an FYI.

Next I performed my upgrades on the Orchid and put the same cv181-z back in and boy does it sound fantastic now! Best I’ve heard the Orchid sound for sure. This is with only a hand full of hours on the upgraded parts.

The stock unit sounds far better with the Western Electric Tube most owners have vs rolling in the cv181-z. The upgraded Orchid sounds better with the cv181 vs the Western Electric and is the best I have heard the dac sound to date. It will only get better with burn in. The upgrades seem to be mandatory to get the most out of tube rolling .... at least the 6sn7s and Shuguang Treasure c181-z varieties.

The Shuguang cv181-z pulls .6 amps of current on the fills like all 6sn7 tubes and is in fact a direct replacement. The cv181 label given by Shuguang is really pure marketing as NOS cv181s actually pull .9 amps of current, not .6 amps.

MHDT states you can try 6sn7 tubes as they may well be ok to use. Please understand the .6 amps the filaments draw is right up against the ceiling MHDT suggests for filament current draw. So roll 6sn7s at your own risk🙂. My friend’s unit has run for many days and hours with absolutely no issues. The tranny does not even get warm. It stays cool. No signs of stress on the Orchid.

The sound is just wonderful with the Shuguang. Very special.

On the Amazon website for the Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z tube linked to above, in answer to someones' question about the grade of this tube, the seller responded:
"The brand have three grade , General Grade,Treasure Grade(better grade) and Natural Sound(best grade), respectively.
This is Treasure Grade."

The CV181-T tube, like the one The Tube Store sells, is called Natural Sound. So, one would assume that this is the 'best grade' of this tube going by what the seller on Amazon stated....however that designation translates to in actual use.
 
  https://www.thetubestore.com/shuguang-natural-sound-cv181-t?quantity=1&custcol_boxed_set_option=2

I have also heard the T is the best sounding from a Don Sachs preamp owner who tried both. 

I think the question of whether a Z is better than a T variant is open for discussion and might depend on other system characteristics. Don Sachs, who builds very well-respected Preamps and buys a ton of tubes from China and uses them in his equipment has a great deal of experience with these new Chinese tubes. He advised me that he believes that the T variant is better than the Z variant. I think the description that the Z variant is warmer aligns with what Don has told me. I have no experience with either of these tubes. Just trying to say that It might not be a situation where the T tube is always better than the Z tube.

Singles or pairs "Z" series little warmer: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=CV-181-Z&_sacat=0&...