I share your enthusiasm!
I have a pair of Veritas amps which I bought after assembling a pair of amps based on the less powerful NC400 modules from Hypex.
The Veritas amps are the best I have heard in my setup. I have 81dB efficiency MBL speakers and, in addition to sounding better than I have ever heard them, I no longer need to use subwoofers for 2-channel listening. |
Yes, I also think class D is here to stay. The Merrill Veritas (Hypex Ncore) and the new Rowland 725s are good examples of that. Enjoy! |
If I may correct you, the Rowland 725 power amps are not a class D design. They are the mono version of the 625 stereo amp, which both use class A/B biased output stages along with power factor corrected switched mode power supplies. |
I think just getting the ARC amp out of the system is an improvement
Would like to hear those amps as well |
Bill_k, you're right and thanks for the correction. |
As a long time fan of well implemented class D, I am delighted that the new class D technology is making strides in popularity... There, I did have to say something in order to subscribe... So there! *grins!* |
Stay tuned for the new Rowland Class-D integrated, the Continuum Series 2, using the new Pasquale Class-D power modules. Rowland dropped B&O ICE for Pasquale. Rowland is the first to use this new Class-D design. 400 watts into 8 ohms and 800 watts into 4 ohms. Hits the stores in April.
Unit weighs 35 lbs. Priced at $ 9500.00. DAC and phono cards optional. |
Uhrn, I suggest that this thread stay focused on its subject matter -- the Merrill Veritas, which is a monoblock product available now. The new JRDG Continuum S2 is an integrated device that no one has heard yet.... It might be best to go spelunking into Continuum's still conjectural innerds elsewhere on Audiogon for a spell. Lest we compare the taste of apples with... the photos of oranges *grins!* G. |
Give me a break Guido..I started a thread several weeks ago to focus on D-Sonic/Abletec Class D amps only. Within the first five replys you and Wilsynet changed the subject to Hypex Ncore, shifting the direction of my thread. Any thing goes... |
Oopsie Audiozen.... I guess I's guilty as charged... I shall try to avoid casting stones.... well, real big stones at least are out! Now returning to Merrill Veritas and NCORE...
it would be great to hear from more users, Current users please post your findings on how the amps are progressing through break in.... How many hours of playing time will it take before Veritas stabilizes completely? And how different is a completely broken in Veritas from a brand new sibling just out of the shipping box?
Hmmm.... And If I may be permitted a borderline inappropriate request to compare Fuji apples with Galas.... Has anyone tried Veritas and ATSAH side-by-side? Both producs appear to be monoblock amps based on NCORE NC1200.
Any obvious sonic/musical difference?
Saluti, Guido |
The following is from an earlier post and an update on the Veritas amps by Merrill Audio.
*** I have no financial interest or benefit of any kind of Merrill Audio or Hypex who make the Ncore NC1200 and NC400.***
I am just a big fan of how great the Ncore based amps sound.
Update:
An Audiophile friend got a pair of Sanders Sound speakers with a Roger Sanders Magtech amp ($11,000 mono) for the top end and a Sanders sound ESL amp ($9,000 mono) for the bottom end as the speakers need to be bi-amped per channel.
They had a wonderful sound and I was impressed but I thought the sound could be "smoother". I felt that I could hear a very slight sound of "noise". So when I mentioned this to the others in the room it was "really?". Well I insisted and suggested a challenge. The Merrill Audio Veritas to replace the Sanders amps. Well we had to come up with four of them. I had my pair and I got Merrill to bring a pair. It was some sight. We first listened to the Sanders amps and then put in the Veritas amps.
After awhile of listening I made no comments as I did not want to be the first. To a man (4) they all thought the Veritas had a better sound from top to bottom, was smoother, dead quite, more dimensional, better tonality and control. The difference was enough that the owner of the Sanders decided to buy the Veritas amps.
Well the above post "could hear the cellos and violas breath" could be experienced when the Veritas was being used in place of the Sanders amps.
Now, do not get me wrong, the Sanders amps are very fine indeed. It is just that the Veritas are that good.
Repost;
I was lucky enough to know Merrill from one of the local NJ/NY area Audio Clubs we both belong and had the opportunity to assist Merrill in listening tests of his prototypes. Besides myself there were a few other Club and Rave Audiophiles that gave their input from time to time. This was in my system as well as several of the others.
My system is: B&W 802D speakers; PS Audio Perfectwave DAC MKII with Bridge by Ethernet and PW Transport by I2S/HDMI; Synergistic Research Galileo Universal Bi-wire Speaker Cells and Balanced Interconnect Cells; Power Conditioning is Synergistic Tesla PowerCell 10 SE MKII; Power cords to the amps and DAC and Transport are Triode Wire Labs Ten Plus (Very impressed with Pete's power cords. You owe it to your self to try them. Money back Guarantee).
I have tried MANY amps but could not find the RIGHT one with the BEST sound with also the following: Mono Blocks; True Differential Balanced Inputs; Not to weigh a TON but also to have quality chases; Cool running, for an amp; Quality parts, and no throw away power cords; Sound that is Pure, life like, true to tone, fast with total control of the speakers, real sounding rise and decay of the sound of instruments, deep, wide holographic sound-stage, not sterile but not warm, even sounding from top to bottom, able to reach well into the highs and dig deep into the lows, easy to maintain, no added noise of its' own (I can not believe how quite they are) and also musical/toe taping. And the price is NOT an arm and a leg. Yes, Merrill's amps are not inexpensive but to even come close to the sound, let alone everything else Merrill is including, someone would have spend a HELL of a lot more. I quit after hearing $16,000 to $30,000+/- amps and while some were really great sounding amps, NOT one can give me the sound that Merrill's Veritas amps do.
Now, every person, who I know of, who heard Merrill Audio Veritas in their system (who has a system that can really take advantage of it) have all been surprised and impressed. ONE CAVEAT!! They are very sensitive to power cords and power conditioning. We found out that you can not just assume that a well regarded power cord will work well with the amps. They did not like a pair of Synergistic Basik cords but their active type were fine. Also there were other well known brands that had some issues. They LOVE Pete's Triode Wire Labs Cables, both Ten Plus and Seven Plus. So make sure you try several types if you upgrade from what Merrill Audio already gives you(but I think you would have to spend a lot more before you "might" get an improvement over the TWL cables). And 9 out of 10 times they will sound better NOT plugged into a power conditioner.
If you have the source and speakers that can take advantage of what this amp can do you will be AMAZED!! My B&W 802Ds never sounded this good. I hear things, from top to bottom, that I never heard or as well. And base, who needs a woofer?!
As with food we all have different tastes and this my not be yours and that is fine, more power to you, but if you have no ax to grind and really hear them set up properly you are in for a treat.
Now these are my opinions and observations and YMMV but if you take the time and set it up properly you will be amazed. It REALLY takes A LOT to impress me enough to make me spend my money and I rarely post. That is how impressed I am. Call me a FAN BOY.
I have no financial interest in Merrill Audio. Yes I have bought a pair. Are they perfect, no, nothing is but they come pretty close to it, and at this price for new, I have not heard anything else like it and as good.
PS These amps need to be left ON, not standby, and seeing that they use like 8-9 watts when not in use it is like leaving on a night light. They need several hundred hours of play four the amps, fuses, power cords to sound their best so take your time and you will be rewarded. If you do shut them off it will take a couple of hours to sound good but after a day or two you are back to great. |
HYPEX..HYPEX..HYPEX..Seems to be a swooning love affair with Bruno Putzeys and one needs to get beyond putting him on a demigod pedestal..Hypex/Ncore is owned by Philips which of course has more than enough R&D funds for Bruno to tap into. However, the biggest flaw with all class D amps is that they are wall dependent, using the a.c. outlet as the capacitor bank rather than having a large power supply and large transformers built in to make them far less wall dependent. The one company in the States that has addressed the flaws in Class D more than any other, and currently makes the worlds finest Class D amplifier, is Audio Research. The Marten M amps from Sweden are right behind AR. Each Audio Research DS450M Class D mono amp has a power reserve of 1368 joules of energy, way beyond the power reserve in the Merrill Veritas or the new upcoming M1 amps from Hypex coming out in June. The DS450M has over 176,000 microfards of capacitor storage. The large block transformer, choke regulator, and the Class D switching device in each DS450M amp are in house custom designs exclusive only to Audio Research. The amps are far more powerful than Merrill or Hypex, run cool, and are meant to left on at all times. A pair is only $10K. |
Audiozen, I have had the opportunity of listening to ARC D450M mono amps at RMAF for a few hours, and I found them to be wonderfully sounding amps indeed, so much so that I visited their suite thrice during the show. Unfortunately, I have not had the chance yet to listen to them in my own system, nor to compare their musical performance directly against any other amps, so while I would concur that D450M probably occupy a position somewhere near the current class-D pinnacle, I am not yet in a position of grading their performance relative to other new entries in the general top of the category. Have you listened to MB450M in your system, and have you had the opportunity to contrast their sound with Merrill Veritas, or other NCore NC1200 implementations? Please do share your findings.
On your assertion that Hypex may be owned by Philips, I have searched on the internet, but have not been able to confirm your statement. Could you point me to the source?
Regards, G. |
Several points Audiozen.
1) Bruno at one time worked for Philips and was one of the driving forces behind their class D. Hypex is not owned by Philips. Hypex is one of the largest suppliers of Class D OEM amps to the world market.
2) All you ever do is Praise the "tech" without ever hearing it or the other equipment that you put down, for whatever agenda you have. It seems that for you it must always fit what YOU THINK it should be built and what it should have to be considered WORTHY of consideration.
3) Again, have you ever heard the Veritas? No, then why do you have an opinion. Because you "think" you know what the Tech in it is and from that you "Know how it will sound".
4) Have you heard the ARC D450M? Why is it I think I know that answer.
Well I have. I like ARC equipment very much but when I heard the D450M at my dealer (on my model speakers) I was disappointed in the sound. I went in expecting to walk out with them. Now it is possible that since then ARC made some adjustments so I may have to take another listen.
5)Why is it that you could not give the Veritas amps and Hypex some consideration from the above comparisons to the ARC Tube amps and the Sanders Sound Magtech amps (that you praised so much in one of your posts).
By the way, after my post I said to a friend that I expected you to be on here dumping on Hypex and the Veritas.
PS The Veritas and Ncore NC1200, with the lack of what you consider the need of power reserves has is one of the most dynamic sounding amps and with speed that not only that I have heard but also the others who HAVE HEARD it. You know there is more then one way to get to the moon. All are high tech but the old way is not necessarily the best. |
Hifial..the article I read out of Europe was inaccurate portraying Hypex/Ncore being owned by Philips.
Upon further investigation, heres the accurate truth. When Bruno worked for Philips before working for Hypex in 1996, he designed for Philips the Ncore UcD power modules, in which the patents and the Ncore trademark are owned by Philips outright which they have on file in Geneva which covers all the European countries. Bruno today pays Philips an annual licensing rights fee to use the design and the Ncore name in Europe which he originally developed. Bruno beat Philips filing the Ncore patents in the patent office in Washington, D.C. to corner the U.S. market. Bruno's designs are still pulse width modulation. Hypex/Ncore uses a feedback application that Bruno took from John Ulrick of Spectron that was used in the first Spectron amp back in 1974. What Ulrick designed that Bruno utilize's, is an application putting the feedback in the circuit after the output filter rather than before, which eliminates phase shifting in the upper frequencies. Patrik Bostrom, currently the most advanced Class D engineer in Europe and CTO Of Abletec, went beyond Bruno's capability with further advanced Class D engineering and developed recently, a linear loop technology known as AMS, (Adaptive modulation Servo), which is phase shift modulation, eliminating all feedback in the circuits, rather than pulse width modulation, which has been around for forty years. D-Sonic uses power modules from Abletec. The new in house switching module designed by Audio Research, achieves the same results as Abletec. |
Well AudioZen, all of this is a little sterile to my taste.... Why don't you source some nice amps featuring Ncore NC1200, Abletech, Pasquale, the ARC D450 monos, the latest Spectrons... break them in for several weeks in your 15 some odd systems, and contrast them in your reference setup, and then let us know how they differ once the class D rubber finally meets the musical road *grins!* G. |
A little sterile?..eat some chocolate. I'll wait fo the new Class D products to come out first this spring. Such as the new Bel Canto's with no switching module, the new Rowland's with the Pasquale amps, and the new M1's from Hypex, which I think will be a hard sell for $15K a pair given for whats on the Class D horizon in 2013. The one Class D amp I would like to hear over any other is the Marten M amp. Weigh 100 lbs each and cost $40K a pair with Patrik Bostrom's technology. |
Ahah... Chocolate I do much prefer, and can munch any day instead of intellectual property sterilia!
I am delighted that the class D technology arena is showing such strong signs of springtime. I will add the upcoming offerings from Bel canto, Martin, and Hypex to my growing list of products and technologies to keep track of.
Saluti, Guido |
Audiozen, Please stop your character assassinations.
"Upon further investigation, heres the accurate truth" from your above post. But you always take half truths and make up your own history for your agenda.
Also you still have not said you have or have not heard the Veritas or any Ncore NC1200 or the ARC D450M amp or for that matter any Class D design that you praise above over the Ncore.
NOW HERE IS THE ACCURATE TRUTH FROM THE SOURCE:
"What a bul.s.it
Bruno worked for Philips until 2005, in April or May 2005 Bruno start to work for Hypex, fully employed (not as a consultant or freelancer!). Somewhere in 2002 Bruno started to developed the UcD design. Bruno started to work on NCORE in 2008. We have filed the patent early 2009 and we have filed the NCORE trademark in 2010.
NCORE patent and trademarkt is fully owned by Hypex, there are no other companies involved in Hypex. Both the NCORE patent and trademark are granted in the USA. Thereby Hypex is solely owned by one owner.....
Furthermore, we have more engineers as only Bruno. In total we're with 16 people, half of them is R&D with two DSP specialist.
Jan-Peter van Amerongen
CEO/Owner
Hypex Electronics bv "
ALSO FROM HYPEX:
"In 2005, Hypex took the strategic decision to move from a being a technology user to being a technology source and hired UcD's inventor, Bruno Putzeys, to be its chief of R&D."
Do you see the part that BRUNO invented UcD?
For more on Bruno: http://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/hardware/bruno-putzeys-the-sound-of-music-extended-play
Now lets see if you can be gracious. Or are you just here for making trouble.
Can we now stay on topic of the OP. |
Take it easy Cisco...I'm referring to the original Ncore designs that Bruno developed..I was referring to Ncore only in my correction..not Hypex. Philips does own the patents on the original Ncore power modules and the Ncore trademark. Bruno can update and vary his designs under Hypex and can use the original Ncore platforms as long as he pays the licensing fees every year which also applies to the Ncore trade name. I read this info on a bio background on Bruno/Ncore. None of this is made up. Move on Dude... |
@Audiozen,
have you actually heard the Merrill Audio Veritas and/or the ARC D450M amps? |
Hi Audiozen, could you post the URL of the biography of Bruno Putzeys that is the source of your assertion:
"I'm referring to the original Ncore designs that Bruno developed..I was referring to Ncore only in my correction..not Hypex. Philips
does own the patents on the original Ncore power modules and the Ncore trademark. Bruno can update and vary his designs under Hypex and can use the original
Ncore platforms as long as he pays the licensing fees every year which also applies to the Ncore trade name. I read this info on a bio background on Bruno/Ncore."
Saluti, G. |
Just to clarity some of the confusion.
Audiozen - In your post your data is consistent with the UcD not the Ncore. Bruno developed the UcD while at Phillips and is licenced to Hypex.
The Ncore patent is fully owned by Hypex, develop by Bruno at Hypex for Hypex only.
http://www.google.com/patents/US8049557?pg=PA1&dq=bruno+putzeys&hl=en&sa=X&ei=t6YGUYe5PKXl0QGc8oHQDw&ved=0CEUQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=bruno%20putzeys&f=false
Bruno's history
http://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/hardware/bruno-putzeys-the-sound-of-music-extended-play
Hypex has 8 Engineers doing pure R&D, so a lot is going on there, more then just Bruno. |
+1
01-28-13: Guidocorona
Hi Audiozen, could you post the URL of the biography of Bruno Putzeys that is the source of your assertion: |
I was curious so I looked up Brostrom (Abletec) patent applications
Earlier these were touted as a new revolutionary class D design
Here are some of my observations:
1). the design clearly still relies on feedback, contrary to earlier assertions
(as a side note, is it even possible to do something as nonlinear as Class D without any feedback?)
2). it appears the design still relies on pulse width modulation
3). it does seem that he is using some similar principles to ncore in not allowing his feedback filters to saturate - he is doing it a slightly different way - limiting the gain - cant say which technique is best but they both are addressing the same key issues it appears
At the end of the day, this seems like an improvement over the existing art but certainly not as revolutionary as was claimed earlier - and also would not jump to the conclusion these are better than ncore - definitely a listening test would be in order |
Hi Dan, you just pointed out the crux of the matter... Listening tests are in order. Furthermore, a module to module comparison may be meaningful only for very basic amplifier implementations, where little is done around the Abletech or NCore NP1200 modules.... More complex amps are likely to have a sonic signature of their own, which may depart to a lesser or greater extent from the bare performance of their underlying processors. |
Dan92075...you are incorrect and did not read cleary regarding the topology with the Abletec amps. His name is Patrik Bostrom, not Brostrom. On the Abletec website it decribes the ALC1000 amplifier using phase shift modulation, not pulse width modulation. Even though it still is a class D switching amp, pulse width modulation is not used at all in the amp or the other newly designed Abletec amps that have been out since 2010. |
Regarding bio info I mentioned earlier on the history of Hypex/Ncore which I extracted from sites such as HiFi+ and Test Seek, which turned out to be inaccurate. The best source for this info is the in depth interview with Bruno Putzeys and Jean Peter in the February 2012 issue of 6Moons. Just Goolge Hypex/6moons and it will give the link to the article. Jean Peter started Hypex in his attic in 1996 and first met Bruno in 2001 while he was working for Philips Digital Systems, at which time he developed the Ncore power module. Read the article. Very informative. |
AudioZen, per the detailed 6moons article at:
http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/ncore/1.html
the development of the Ncore module started in 2008 at Hypex, rather than during 2001 at Phylips. In 2001, Putzey was working on the development of UCD at Phylips instead. Putzey commenced development of Ncore technology only in 2008, well after leaving Phylips. This is a good thing for Mr. Putzey and Hypex, because otherwise any of the Ncore-related patents that have been granted since then, would be owned by Philips, and not by Hypex.
G. |
Audiozon,
His patent application lists him as Patrik Brostrom of Abletec, I will take your word for it that is a typo and he is Patrik Bostrom of Abletec.
But one thing that is absolutely clear from the diagrams in the patent is that his design uses pulse width modulation. In fact, google it and read the patent yourself - he actually says himself he is presenting a new way of doing pulse width modulation.
I think perhaps the confusion is that for the feedback and input structures that feed the Class D switch, he uses a phase shift modulation.
This is actually not novel - this is described in papers 7 years old by Bruno - and I doubt he invented this either - its probably been around for a long time.
But at the end of the day all Class D amps are a switch to a positive voltage rail and a switch to a negative voltage rail followed by a LC filter, switching around 400-500kHz speed. The only way to create the desired audio signal is to pulse width modulate the switches.
The art is in how you space out the switches to create the best quality audio signals - what kind of feedback scheme you use, how you modulate the input, etc
You peaked my engineering curiosity though that this may be something radically new - even though it was not it was fun to look into! :) |
You are wrong Guido..Quote from the 6Moons article.." Bruno
came in contact with Jean Peter in 2001. "Bruno by then was working on a new Class D design," (The Ncore for Phillips). Ncore as I mentioned earlier, was and still is a Philips trademark in Europe, while Bruno was working for Philips Digital Systems in 2001. Jean Peter, who started Hypex in his attic in 1996 building a 750 watt mono amp for active subwoofers, was so impressed with Bruno Putzeys prototype in 2001, that he struck a deal with Philips to use the Ncore technology with the Hypex name and by 2004 the Hypex UcD 180ST power module was marketed and used in Hypex subwoofers...regardless which newer Class D power modules were designed beyond 2005 at Hypex, their very first Class D power module, the UcD 180ST, was developed and built during 2003/2004 for the Hypex subwoofer... |
Audiozen, all by itself, the page at
http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/ncore/1.html
does not appear to support an assertion of Ncore being in existance since 2001, nor of Phylips owning any Ncore trademarks and patents. The only way to support such assertion is to equate UCD with Ncore, which is a conclusion that cannot be directly inferred from the page in question. The work done by Putzeys whilst at Phylips appears to be clearly associated with the UCD module, rather than Ncore:
"Meanwhile Bruno was working at Philips where he also did some work for OLS, the mother company of Charles van OosterumÂ’s Kharma. In that position Bruno came in contact with Jan-Peter by 2001. Bruno by then was working on a new class D design for Philips and told Jan-Peter how this was becoming a very interesting development. The moment the UcD-baptized design was presentable, Jan-Peter drove down to Bruno's Belgian hometown of Leuven to hear and see what this new technology was all about at the local Philips research facility. According to Jan-Peter it took all of 30 seconds to become convinced of UcDÂ’s potential."
[...]
""with UcD, Jan-Peter made a deal with Philips to use their technology in Hypex products. With the acquired 150-watt UcD reference in his pocket, Jan-Peter started designing and building the first Hypex UcD180ST module."
Per the passage below, Putzeys appears to have moved to Hypex in 2005:
"In 2004 these were marketed and used in Hypex-built subwoofers. In the same year the 180ST gained company from the more powerful 400ST. Unfortunately a year later Philips decided to freeze funding for BrunoÂ’s R&D department. This signaled Jan-Peter that it was time to ask Bruno if he would join him in Hypex. Not only did Bruno make the move, Nand Eeckhout also left Philips to join the Groningen company."
The development of Ncore appears to have commenced in 2008 at Hypex, and completed in 2010:
""The development of the next generation of amplifiers now known as Ncore® began in 2008 but got delayed a bit because what had to happen first was setting up a volume production infrastructure for the UcD modules."
[...]
"With the UcD production facilities in place, the work on the Ncore® development could proceed. This culminated in the first prototype by the end of 2008. The fully developed NC1200 module finished around the summer of 2010."
A different source, the February 2008 Putzey bio on IEEE Spectrum at
http://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/hardware/bruno-putzeys-the-sound-of-music-extended-play
also supports the assertion that Putzey work at Phylips was associated with UCD, but cannot be used to corroborate Phylips's association with Ncore:
"In 2001, while working at Philips Applied Technologies in Leuven, Belgium, Putzeys designed a compact, versatile class-D amplifier module that he called
UcD, for ”Universal class-D.” Over the past few years, dozens of amplifier models, with prices ranging from US $500 to $8500, have been built around Putzeys’s
modules, which are now manufactured under license by Hypex Electronics of Groningen, Netherlands."
[...]
"In May 2005, he followed
his modules to Hypex, where he is now the chief tech guru."
There is no explicit mention of Ncore,but there is a hint at new technology that remains unnamed:
"Not long after, Putzeys left Philips for Hypex, where he has pretty much free rein to explore the boundaries of class-D. Just ”for fun,” he recently designed
an audio amplifier with 0.0003 percent total harmonic distortion, at full power, amplifying a 20-kilohertz signal. That figure is more than 1000 times
better than some very good solid-state amps. In fact, itÂ’s an improvement that no human ear can detect, as Putzeys acknowledges."
Back to the 6moons article, the following passage clearly implies that the Ncore trademark is owned by Hypex. The passage would also support an assertion that Putzeys's US patents on Ncore follow in the footsteps of equivalent non US patents on the same technology owned by the same parties.
"To protect his ideas as well as possible, a patent on Ncore® technology has been filed also in the US. Before the Ncore® name got stamped on the circuit boards and business stationary, many other names came to mind. Finally the name was derived from the most important part of the circuit, the modulator heart. Bruno came up with the name and also drew the accompanying logo. As he put it, "to keep things simple, do it yourself but do it good".
That mantra of simple but good runs through the Hypex company. Even though they know that with their Ncore® technology they have gold in their hand, they don’t just want to sell it to anyone."
Bottomline for the moment is that, if there exists direct evidence that the Ncore trademark and patents are owned by Phylips, I have not found it yet.
G. |
Guido.. one of the articles I read during the past month on the history of Ncore/Hypex, appears to have conflicting accuracies. One article I read states tha the UcD power module that Bruno built in 2001 while working for Philips Digital Systems, states the main circuit in the amp is referred to as the "Ncore circuit" which is where the name originally came from, which would make the term "Ncore" an intellectual property of Philips. Jean Peter mentions he holds the U.S. trademark on Ncore but never mentions in any interview that he owns the trademark in Europe which is filed in Geneva and the deal he cut with Philips back in 2004/2005 was to pay them a annual license fee to use the Ncore name and UcD power module patents that were part of Philips Digital Systems in 2001. I am moving on and spending no more time on this issue. If you explore and dig deep enough on the net, you will run into the same info whether accurate or not. |
My apologies AudioZen. Unfortunately, you are the author of an extraordinary claim which, to be taken seriously, requires extraordinary proof, whose onus remains on you to exhibit. If you ever find the European article which asserts that Ncore was invented at Phylips prior to Mr. Putzeys joining Hypex, and if such article is authoritative, I invite you to post a citation and link to this thread. Alternatevely, you may try to dredge out trademark information from Phylips themselves. Until then, I can only point our readers to what I have found with Google: Hypex's CEO/Owner Jan-Peter Van Amerongen's clear assertion about Hypex's ownership of Ncore technology and trademarks on the DIYAudio site:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/190434-hypex-ncore-621.html#post3344017
where Jan-Peter states in part:
"Bruno started to work on NCORE in 2008. We [at hypex] have filed the patent early 2009 and we have filed the NCORE
trademark in 2010.
NCORE patent and trademarkt is fully owned by Hypex, there are no other companies involved in Hypex. Both the NCORE patent and trademark are granted in
the USA. Thereby Hypex is solely owned by one owner.....
"
I respect your decision to abandon a line of argument which seems -- prima face -- to be conflicting with the verifiable public record. Yet, if you can ever provide it, I will welcome any extraordinary proof of the opposite. G.
Regards, G. |
Guido..I back tracked and found one article regarding Hypex
and Bruno paying Philips licensing fees to use the UcD technology he developed for Philips back in 2001 in which they own. Its a site that focuses on DIY readers. The site is enjoythemusic.com..the article is from October 2012 written by Jeff Poth. I'll dig up the other two articles I read and post them as well. I'm on standby regarding Hypex, anticipating the new Pasquale Class D amps used in the about to be released Rowland Continuum 2 integrated and the new Bel Canto Ice amp with the switching module removed, which will be a D.C. power supply fed directly to the Ice amp with no pulse width modulation whatsoever, a first of its kind which has been in the works for the past two years. |
Hi AudioZen, yes you are correct. As Mr. Putzeys developed the original UCD technology while he was working for Phylips, the UCD acronym itself would likely be trademarked by Phylips. Furthermore, any patents related to UCD, which Mr. Putzeys applied to during his employment at Phylips, would be automatically assigned to Phylips. (Such is the nature of standard employment contracts in the technology sector... My own patents for example, remain all assigned to IBM, in spite of the fact that I have retired from Big Blue)
At a later time, in order to be permitted to manufacture UCD modules, Hypex would have started to pay appropriate licensing fees to Phylips for the use of that specific UCD trademark, and of the specific technology which is defined by those UCD patents owned by Phylips.
Conversely, Ncore technology, was invented by Mr. Putzeys after he joined Hypex, probably during the 2007 to 2008 timeframe, with basic development being finalized in 2010. It looks like Ncore invention disclosures were filed between 2008 and 2010, and would have been assigned to Hypex by the inventor(s) -- Putzeys et al. The Ncore word, within its applicability to the target technology, would also have been trademarked by Hypex, although there appears to be instances of "Ncore" used by other companies for totally different purposes than audio.
On a different topic, the name of the manufacturer of the power conversion modules inside the upcoming Rowland Continuum Series 2 integrated amp (and the Rowland M525 bridgeable amp) is Pascal -- just like the French Philosopher, rather than Pasquale -- which of course is a perfectly nice Italian name... But seems to remain sadly not associated with High End audio.
Saluti, G. |
Audiozen,
The Bel Canto amplifiers that are replacing the power module with a linear supply instead of a switching supply are still keeping the class d amp the same module.
This means its a class D pulse width modulated amplifier.
I wish you would stop claiming that every new class D amp is no longer a pulse width modulated amplifier - pulse width modulation is pretty much intrinisic to a class D audio amp. |
Audiozen has been messing up information about the Hypex UCD/Ncore topic, and he just reaized it but does not want to recognize it yet.
>@Audiozen,
have you actually heard the Merrill Audio Veritas and/or the ARC D450M amps?<
The answer is obviosly No, he hasn't. |
Guido..regarding corrected spellings, the name Pasquale was spelt to me by a Rowland dealer in California who attended the private demo at CES of the Continuum 2 integrated. I'm sure hes not aware of the correct spelling. Also, you continue to use the word "Phylips" which is incorrect. The correct spelling is Philips. One of the two articles I'm trying to dig up refers to the "Ncore circuit" in the UcD power module that Bruno developed for Philips in 2001. |
Guido..thanks for mentioning Pascal. I checked out their website and Google images of their power modules. Very impressive work. It appears after looking at the photo's, that their amps look like identical twins to the amps being used by D-Sonic in Texas, even though Abletec offices in New Jersey mentioned D-Sonic is using Abletec. Could be D-Sonic is using Abletec in a certain model but their top amps are definitely Pascal judging by the photos. |
Are the Merrill Audio Veritas equipped with 20A or 15A IEC power inlets?
Thanks, Guido |
|
Very intriging. I started reading this thread to learn more about the Merril Veritas class D monoblocs.
However, this thread quickly evolved(devolved?) into a discussion of ownership rights to various class D technologies, patent and trademark ownership in both Europe and the U.S. and other undisclosed matters.
It's obvious that 'Audiozen' has a different viewpoint than 'Hifial' and 'Guidocorona'. Hifial and Guidocorona, on one side, are arguing that Hypex owns "hypex"and "ncore" technologies and trademarks but not the Ucd technology and trademark, conceding that Phillips owns these since Bruno Putskeys invented this while employed by Phillips. Audiozen, on the other side, agrees that Phillips owns the UcD rights but implies that the "ncore" rights may belong to Phillips, since he claims the "ncore" name and technology may have begun developement under Bruno while he was still employed by Phillips.
It seems like each side is trying to establish timelines for either current or future legal disputes regarding 'hypex" and "ncore" ownership rights. Does anyone know if Hypex and Phillips are engaged in a legal dispute or potential future litigation? Or is this just a public spat between rival class D companies?
I find this very interesting but I have no stake in this game/dispute. In trying to understand the hidden agendas displayed in their respective thread postings above.
It appears to me that:
1. Hifial is definitely Jean-Peter van Amerongen, CEO and owner of Hypex Electronics in The Netherlands. His position in this dispute is clearly backing Hypex's interests which is completely understandable.
2. Guidocorona is an Italian named Guido ? that appears to work for, or with, Hypex. I'm not sure what his employment position is but he is clearly in support of Hypex's interests.
3. Audiozen, I currently think either works for or represents the interests of Phillips but I'm not certain. He seems intent on trying to muddy the waters in regards to when Bruno Putzkeys began work on the "ncore" technology. He also seems to have an undisclosed agenda but he may just be a rival razzing a competitor and spreading misinformation.
4. Bruno Putzkeys is a Polish born amplifier engineer and designer whom both sides refer to often in their thread posts. He worked for Phillips in The Netherlands when he invented the UcD (Universal class D) technology and modules that utilized PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) which marked the birth of class D amplification. Sometime in 2005, Bruno left Phillips and joined Hypex as their head of R&D in order to further his development of his class D technology, since Phillips had just previously discontinued funding for his amplifier research and development. Whether or not Bruno worked on 'ncore', or even referred to any part of his UcD creation with the name 'ncore, is a major point of contention between the 2 parties since this could imply ownership rights of 'ncore'.
Even though I have no skin in this game, I'm going to follow future developments closely. If anyone has aditional knowledge of this dispute, or wants to clarify or correct any of my statements or information, please post them. I may be reading too much into this, but I think I'm smelling ulterior motives and an undisclosed story here.
Audiozen, can you tell us if you have an undisclosed stake in this dispute and whether you're employed by any audio company? If so, is it Audio Research or Rowland?
Guidocorona, can you tell us if you have a stake and if you're employed by Hypex? If not, are you employed by another audio company?
Just my 2 cents and thanks,
Tim |
Thank you Noble100 for adding to the Ncore lore... I was not aware that Mr. Putsey's was born in Poland at all.
Your conjectures are fascinating... Never the less, I never heard of any corporate dispute between Hypex and Philips, past, present, or impending. AudioZen, Hifial, and I are purely bonified audiofools. We are not proxies for any particular companies in this discussion, nor our monikers mask some high ranking identities in the world of High End audio. Our obvious passion derives from personal experiences, philosophical preferences, and some differing results when trying to root out extremely scattered information from the internet. On more than one occasion, we pick up the phone, and talk to some manufacturers directly, although up to now we seem to have limited ourselves to the Western side of the Atlantic. My own particular audiophilic specialty is recent Rowland lore.
I own a Rowland Criterion preamplifier and a pair of Rowland monoblocks, and am extremely fond of them. prior to M725 class A/B, the Rowland M312 ICEpower 1000ASP stereo was my amp reference.
I am intrigued by the apparently inherent musical potential of the new generation of class D modules from Pascal, Abletech, and Hypex... There exists already anecdotal reports of desirable performance in earlybird instantiations of amps based on some of these modules. I am looking forward to testing some of these amps in my own system, and to verify the soundness (or foolishness) of my hunches.
As for my origins and whereabouts... Yes, you are correct, I was born and grew up in Milano (Italy), lived in Toronto for two decades, and am currently living in Austin (TX). I now work for AT&T after almost 27 years with IBM. I am a contributing reviewer to PFO.
My scribblings on the intellectual property of Ncore are purely based on my own helter-skelter research on mostly secondary and tertiary internet sources. I claim no current inside knowledge from Philips or Hypex.
Note: Although there exist four IBM patents with my name on them in one way or another, I am neither a lawyer, nor am I an intellectual property professional.
Guido |
Hi Guido,
I'm just an audiofool, myself. One who, obviously, has too much time on my hands since retiring ( former distribution operations manager).
I also am very excited about the potential of the new various class D amplifiers/technologies and have been following developments closely. I'm a Class D Audio SDS440SC owner and love this amp. I'm also thinking of trying my hand at building a pair of Hypex momoblocs with NC400 amp modules, figuring this will save me about $8-10k, with the finished monos that use the top of the line Hypex modules costing so much. I'll post my impressions if I do build these. I would also love to see a review comparing the various class D amps to each other as well as to some top class A, A/B and tube amps.
I apologize for letting my imagination run wild. I now understand that this thread was just fellow audiofools being passionate about their viewpoints, not high-end company bigwigs discussing industry happenings under cover of psuedo-usernames.
In my defense, however, you 3 are so involved and passionate in your opinions/brand biases, that I think you all may have unwittingly taken on the personas of your favorite companies' owners. Kind of like very committed actors being devoted to their roles.
I also falsely assumed Hifial was Jan-Peter of Hypex because he included a quote from Hypex in one of his posts that was signed by Jan Peter at the end.
I don't consider myself a conspiracy theorist. But, I sure took this thread and embellished the f*&!ck out of it. I'm so glad that my post will provide so many hours of amusement for you guys.
No charge and have fun.
Thanks,
Tim |
Hi Tim, no worries!
In case you have not discovered it yet, there is a thriving community of Ncore NC400 DIYs crossing their intellectual antlers at:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=197.0
You will find the original post by Mr. Jan-Peter van Amerongen quoted by Hifial at:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/190434-hypex-ncore-621.html#post3344017
G. |
Hi Guido,
Thanks for the info. I've been reading the forums on Audiocircle and that's where I got the idea to build my own monoblocs. With things happening so quickly with class D, I'm a little concerned that my monoblocs may be obsolete by the time I complete them. But I could always use them somewhere.
Thanks for being cool about my ramblings,
Tim |
Noble100 AKA Tim
I must say you should write conspiracy novels. If memory serves me I stated I have NO affiliation with Hypex or Merrill Audio.
My passion is from hearing a product that I think is ground breaking. I also mentioned not only my experience but that of others that I know from Audio Clubs I belong to in the NJ/NY area.
I have heard both the DIY Hypex NC400 and the OEM Hypex NC1200. As good as the NC400 is the NC1200 is in another league. That is not just my opinion. A well known cable designer compared his modified NC400 to the Veritas and was surprised how much better the NC1200 was.
If you try and build the NC400 and are looking to maximize the potential of the amp use a solid chassis, Litz cabling, quality binding posts, fuses and anti vibration (think Stillpoints Ultra Mini). Unless you have heard the Mods do not comment.
But if you have the system that can take advantage of the NC1200 and can afford the cost you owe yourself a listen to the Veritas amps.
PS If you live near NYC the Veritas is at the NY Audio Show http://www.newyork-audioshow.com/ in April. They are in two rooms, one with Sanders Sound Speakers and one with Raidho speakers. |
Hi Al,
Thanks for the info. I would love to use the NC1200 modules in my possible amp build (but I know they're only available in finished amps that are beyond my budget) so I'll probably use the NC400 modules or some other class D modules. Or I could write a string of conspiracy novels in order to afford the better nc1200 based amps. We all know I have the aptitude to be successful at it.
I live in Indiana so I won't be able to hear the Veritas but would love to.
Thanks for being so understanding of my temporary insanity. I now know you have no affiliation with Hypex or Merrill; I mistakenly thought Jan Peter wrote one of your posts which I later found out was just a quoting of one of his emails that you included in one of your posts.
Thanks again,
Tim |
Tim, No Problem. Trust me, go with the NC400 but DO IT RIGHT!
If you have any questions PM.
PS Just encase you did not know and it could make a difference, Merrill Audio has a trade up program and I have heard it has helped others. Otherwise go with the above. |
