for every -dB of attenuation (5, 10, 20, etc.) that is used, you’ll lose that in volume when playing your system
In almost all cases you'll have plenty of gain to fully drive the amp.
I would hope that both would be 0.0V with no audio playing, or the volume turned all the way down.
That is very seldom the case. Volume potentiometers knock down the preamps full power output. Once the gain drops below the audible range there is no need for further attenuation. That is why the idle hiss can be audible, there is still gain being passed through the preamp.
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Wow! Lots of great info @dpop! Thank you again for taking so much time going over these manuals and for being so “invested” in helping. Wish I could repay you somehow…
From what I understand (could very easily be wrong) Transparent utilizes the network boxes on their cables for “calibrating and shielding”. Not sure if they actually do anything but they look cool and it seems they go the extra mile with their cables. Plus they’re local to me here in New England which also attracted me to them initially but the affect they had on my system is when I became loyal.
Thank you for pointing out the volume as I actually do listen quite loudly, so good to know ahead of time about this as that would have completely escaped me and I’d have freaked a bit wondering why I now had to turn up the volume more (64 is what I set the volume at in 2 channel when I listen-if 5 Iron Maiden concerts hasn’t made me totally deaf by now I don’t think this can do much more damage😂🤘🏻). I had no idea or paid any attention to the Volume Limit adjustment. If I recall I think I may have even set that to off? Could be wrong but I’ll certainly try playing with that-great call and great tip!
So tomorrow the ground lift adapters arrive and Friday the 10db attenuator arrives. If neither of these 2 work, next try will be swapping the XLR’s for RCA’s. And thanks for being so proactive I was actually going to ask whether to put them on the Mac or Sim end!
So the Mac is literally double the output gain of the Marantz, so just maybe this is the issue? In relative terms is that a big difference, enough to wreak a little havoc? Keep in mind the Sim is 20 years old. I did just have her serviced and got a glowing bill of health from Sim and I know they “overbuild” their amps but she’s not a puppy anymore☺️…
I’ll also try hitting mute and see what that does. I do have the mute set to “full”…
Yet again thank you so much for being right there every step on this journey @dpop God knows I’d have never EVER been able to get anywhere near as far without you man…
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And thank you @russ69!. I know I’d still have plenty of volume to listen as loudly as my Maiden proofed ears can handle! I was asking if maybe I needed the 20db’s if the gain difference was that vast…
You know something @dpop @russ69, I was just thinking about all of this and honestly if at the end of all of this my system is still possessed by this evil entity, you all turned this into an amazingly positive experience. Honestly. Regardless of outcome you have turned my shock and horror into a true positive experience. That will be my take away from this. So thank you, sincerely…😊👌🏻
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@russ69 @dpop just read this in the Titan owner manual:
The gain in each channel is the same among all balanced inputs and among all unbalanced inputs, but NOT the same among balanced and unbalanced inputs. Keep this in mind when level matching, if you are using a combination of both types of inputs.
So it would appear switching to RCS’s won’t make any difference, no?
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@kingbr
You’re very welcome. I know how you feel about that. Once you heard it you cannot unhear it eventhough it’s only audible from inches away from the speaker’s tweeter 😁😁. What’s your speakers’ sensitivity? It’s even more audible through highly sensitive speakers (highly efficient speakers).
You don’t want want to use a ground lift XLR adapter or a 10db XLR attenuator, you don’t want to insert anything in the signal path as it would potentially degrade the signal purity thus will degrade and compromise the overall sound quality. Just leave it alone as is. Because you will be compromising the overall sonic fidelity (sound quality) while trying to fix or resolve something (faint buzz that’s only audible from couple inches away from your speaker’s tweeter) that isn’t even an issue to begin with.
Not all systems are dead quiet if you literally put your ear right up to the speaker due to various different AC induced environments in our homes. But it looks like you have the Shunyata AC power product and power cables in your setup. Shunyata makes great AC power products and power cables. I also use Shunyata AC power products and power cables in my setup at home but that faint buzz is still there when I use my Cary SA 200.2 ES power amp in the system, but then when I switch the amp back to the Classe amp the faint buzz goes away and is dead quiet. So, I know it’s the Cary SA 200,2 ES power amp (solid state) that’s causing that’s causing that faint buzz when I put my ear right up to the speaker (really close to the speaker). So, I just live with it since the Cary sounds better and more musical than my Classe Sigma Amp2 power amp. But I still have the Classe amp and decided to keep it as a back up amp (reserve). I mostly use the Cary amp since I like the way it sounds as it reminds me a bit of its tube amp counterpart since Cary Audio is well known for their tube gears. I have their SLP-05 vacuum tube linestage preamp in my setup and they make great combo. I only have stereo setup for listening to music only. I don’t do surround sound movies.
Trust me kingbr, just leave it as is and just relax and enjoy your music and movies.
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LED light somewhere in the room, either a 5v or an LED of certain type bulb in traditional socket. Unplug it. See if that is it.
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Good point @markmoskow. If it already isn't the case @kingbr, try turning off all lighting in your place, and see if this makes a difference. I also agree with @dilatante. There are sometimes trade-offs in the audio world. In your situation, you will probably be *slightly* compromising the performance of the Transparent's when inserting any other device in them (like the attenuators or XLR shield lifters). Only you can decide what you want to live with. If this was my setup, at some point I would have shorted pins 2 & 3 on one of the XLR cables (at the female end, while plugged into the Sim), to see how much of this is being picked up by the cable alone.
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Agree with @dpop as it will be tradeoffs because you will be compromising the signal purity thus overall sonic fidelity (sound quality) everytime you insert something in the signal path.
@kingbr
I wouldn't get any XLR attenuator or any sort in the signal chain because you will be compromising the overall sound quality of your system slightly. Just leave it the way it is since the faint buzz is only noticeable from like couple inches away from the speakers anyway and has no impact on overall sound. Don't sweat it.
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So it would appear switching to RCS’s won’t make any difference, no?
The RCAs will be 3db down from the XLR connections. 3db might be enough to knock down the hiss a bit.
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But I would just keep using the XLR balanced interconnects throughout especially if your gears are fully balanced design or true differential design internally. I don’t know if your Mac and Sim are true differential design or fully balanced design internally, but if they were, you will be better off using XLR cables throughout as it would sound better than using RCA single ended cables. it’s quieter (lower noise floor) when using XLR cables if your gears are fully balanced design or true differential design internally.
FYI, not all gears that provide XLR connectivity are fully balanced design or true differential design internally. Some are single ended design internally although they provide XLR connectivity (outputs & inputs). Marantz multi-channel power amps and their preamp surround processors are single ended design internally but they provide XLR balanced connectivity (inputs & outputs). So if your gears aren’t fully balanced design or true differential design design internally you can use RCA single ended interconnects and would sound the same whether you’re using RCA or XLR, or you would probably be better off using RCA in this case, unless if you're running long interconnects then use XLR cables.
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@kingbr circling back to the interconnect cables between the preamp and power amp, I have a new angle to look into. As you know, XLR plugs have three pins. Two are for the balanced signal, and the third is for the signal ground. You will also note that the XLR connector body (also known as the connector shell) is typically made of metal, and is therefore conductive to electricity.
There is a golden rule in electronics to only use one path for any signal. Ground connections are often the most difficult to control, because there are different approaches to grounding. But for the sake of this discussion, let's leave it at the golden rule. Normally we consider the preamplifier in a HiFi system to be the place where all grounds originate. Therefore the other things (such as your power amplifier) should not allow a circuit to form through the shield ground, which is normally also the chassis ground. You will want to also keep the signal ground separated from chassis ground at all points from the preamp to the power amp. The shield is supposed to be electrically connected to only the chassis ground of the preamp. It must not be connected to the XLR connector shell at the power amp, or an undesirable current will flow through the shield, causing that buzzing noise you hear in your speakers.
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Thank you @dilatante and definitely noted. You all make such great cases and like I said above because of so many thoughtful, helpful, insightful, and supportive replies from all of you the outcome is now secondary and if I live with it, I will sleep much better at night and not worry about it anymore. The positivity and great support has truly been not a silver lining, a gold one! Wish I could do more but a deep sincere thank you is the most I can so humbly offer...
I already have the attenuator and ground lifter (I think they may have just arrived) so I might as well try and see? But I will now listen more closely once they're in to see if I lose any signal purity. I can always return them. Knowing this is so common and that so many live with it, and yes that mine is so inaudible except ear to tweet, I have now started to enter acceptance phase😂😁🤣. And though I can't "unhear it" (love that one @dilatante😁), I can really now wrap my brain around it thanks to all of you...
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Thank you @sleepwalker65 , so are you suggesting I go to RCA IC's?
@dilatante great point on the fully balanced. I am pretty sure both the Mac and Sim are fully balanced, I know the Sim is actually and I have to believe the Mac is as well...
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@kingbr
You are most welcome.
Usually most if not all Mac amps such as their monoblock amps and most of their stereo power amps are fully balanced design or true differential design but not sure about their entry level AV preamp surround processors such as your MX122, whish was based on the Marantz AV8802. Mac's flagship AV preamp surround processors such as as the MX 160/161/170 are most likely fully balanced design or true differential design. I have no clue regarding your Simaudio Titan multi-channel amp.
Just enjoy your music and movies and forget about that faint buzz that's only noticeable from couple inches away from your speaker.
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You can correct the XLR wiring to lift the shield ground at the power amplifier end of the cable. That should be the correct and final solution. It will require that you modify the wiring on your custom XLR cables.
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Thanks for clarifying @sleepwalker65 unfortunately that is so far over my skillset I wouldn't even know where to start. Are there any other already made XLR's that you know of that could solve this issue?
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Don't know of any specific pre-made cables that would be up to the job, but I'd be surprised if custom / "premium" cable manufacturers would not offer options for ground lift on balanced cables. Considering your technical capabilities, just using RCA interconnects might be the best solution for you.
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I had a similar problem. Turns out it was my wifi router. Problem went away when I moved the wifi router further away.
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Thank you again all for staying the course with me😊! @davidrolon thanks for sharing your issue, my router is on another floor so it’s totally separate from the system..
@russ69 @dpop just an update, the ground lift adapter and attenuator are arriving today…I’ll report back as soon as I get them and install. I am concerned about signal quality but at this point since they’re already on their way gotta try them, right?😬
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So, @russ69 and @dpop the XLR ground lift adapters did not do anything, which I'm almost glad because wow were they a bi%$h to get in! The attenuators are arriving today via UPS. Let's see if they do anything. If not, I'm still going to try the RCA's just for kicks but that might be it (still may try the ground wire @dpop)...
Regardless as I've said this journey has been worth every second just because of all of you reaching out and taking much of your time to help and support😌...
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I just went around with this same problem.
At full volume with no source playing I was getting 48.5 dB hum and hiss from each speaker. Loud.
I finally traced it down to the subwoofer rca cables. I put in a different and better made cable and my hum and hiss went from 48.5 dB down to 35.4 dB. Wow!! that was a 13 dB attenuation of garbage noise! What an impact on the noise floor.
Apparently it was doing a weird backfeed through the the preamp outputs I was using to drive the subs...
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Again it is faint and you have to put your ear up to the speaks to hear but it is definitely there.
- Maybe just try and ignore it, and keep the ear away from the speaker?
- Or downgrade back to the old amp?
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I don't know if there a more irritating noise than hum unless it is static. I can even live with a little hiss. This is too common of a problem in audio. The cure or reduction of it can be anything from changing a cable or two, to rewiring the house!
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I don’t know if there a more irritating noise than hum unless it is static. I can even live with a little hiss. This is too common of a problem in audio. The cure or reduction of it can be anything from changing a cable or two, to rewiring the house!
The old amp did not moan and hum, so I doubt that changing the whole home’s wiring is going to be easier than chucking in the old amp.
And if it did not hum with the old cables, then why is it humming with the new cables?
And then if the new amp hums elsewhere, we might have a datapoint to understand if it is the new amp.
But it is possible that it is as simple as a power cord over an IC, but I assume that the OP has addressed that via some investigation, and cable jiggling.
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The old amp did not moan and hum, so I doubt that changing the whole home’s wiring is going to be easier than chucking in the old amp.
The two most common sources of new/increased noise when things were fine before, is an amp with more gain or a more efficient pair of loudspeakers.
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