Low buzzing through speaks

I thought maybe somehow going from the 2 prong Marantz to the 3 prong Mac may have had something to do with it. I had no idea how or why that would have an affect but it was something I thought could be playing a role…

RCA’s should say

I’ve talked to the folks at Crutchfield and Emotiva and they basically said if it’s that low and you can’t hear it from the listening position to just live with it as it’s not something worth going crazy over. You really have to put your ear within about 4-6 inches of the tweeter to hear it…🤷‍♂️

Thanks @ianrmack  for replying. My home is older, built in 1974. But that buzz was not there previously. I checked out the Emotiva piece, but how would I integrate that with the Furman Elite? I have 2 powered subs, my preamp, my DAC, cd player, cable box, Brennan B2 (this is how I listen to music as I have all my cd’s ripped to this unit), DVD player, and an Audioengine B1 blue tooth plugged into the Furman?

Thanks @imhififan It is more than 15 years old but I sent it to Simaudio for “calibration and cleanup” last year and she came back squeaky clean. They actually said she was in better shape than most-though they said they don’t see many of them because they “overbuild their amps”. I’ll give that a shot. Like I’ve been told it’s a minimal buzz that you really have to get your ear up to within a few inches of the tweeter to hear, but it wasn’t there before so that’s why I’m totally perplexed. 
 

I should also mention that when I switched out the Marantz for the McIntosh I totally switched up my setup which means cables and power cords are all intertwined. This also might be causing it im told? It’s always been spaghetti ills but now IC cables and power cords have changed logistics…

Thank you @russ69, but how as they are coax? I don’t have a way to connect it between amp and preamp?

Thank you @jackd! I’m going to try that tomorrow AM, and also try unplugging the IC’s from the Titan as @imhififan suggested. I’m really hoping it’s “the nest”😂 which it truly is great call on that one😂!

I have a Shunyata Alpha 20 amp power cable on the Titan and all Transparent Plus XLR IC’s from the Titan to the McIntosh so it’s not like I’ve skimped there…That’s actually the reason I wanted to move the location of the preamp because I could not get at the back where it was before so I moved it to the top of my Entertainment center. But that obviously changed the cabling around. So maybe that is the ticket🤞🏻!

just want to take a minute and really thank all of you who have taken the time to reply👍🏻! You guys are awesome!

Hello All,

So I cleaned up "the nest" (still getting a kick out of that one @jackd) this morning as best I could and removed the Audioengine B1 (great call and thank you @plumptonvinyl I had my suspicions on that one as well) and reconnected and, buzzing still there 😫! Thank you @imhififan I did remove all the IC's from the Titan, powered up and no buzz. So I know it's not the Titan-another good call to try-thank you! No change. @fredrik222 thank you and yes the obvious was always in mind and actually sent an email tom Jay's Audiolab to seek their advice and waiting to hear back. Figure it has to be the McIntosh. Didn't want to believe it because I just dropped 4K on it, but it is what it is now. 

So I'm down to 4 options:

1. Go back to the Marantz and try to resell the McIntosh (not likely at all to do this).

2. There is a product called the Hum-X that I could maybe try plugging the McIntosh into and then either plugging that in to the Furman Elite (kinda seems weird but could work, no?) or going to a different outlet altogether as both circuits on the dedicated 20 amp line are taken. Providing the McIntosh doesn't draw more than 6 amps as that is the max on the Hum-X. Need to call McIntosh to get the current draw for the 122. I can't see that being more than 6 amps though. Really this is my last true option.

3. Reach out to the church and have them send a priest to get rid of this thing (sorry have to keep my sense of humor it's all I have left).

4. Live with it. A few have suggested this as it's such a faint buzz that can only be heard with ear close to tweeter and certainly not audible with anything playing. Some have said to be thankful it's such a low level buzz and I know it could be worse.

Again I wangt to thank you all for taking your time to try and help, all suggestions have been great. Please if you have any others I'm still not quite ready to give up just yet. But after the Hum-X (if that is doable and viable) I think option 4 will be the end result by default...

Thank you so much for providing this video @fredrik222. This is referencing the power amps from McIntosh/Trinnov though? Does it stand to reason the preamps share the same issues/characteristics?

Regardless very insightful and I sincerely appreciate all of your advice/support-so thanks man👍

Thank you @willgolf! Just read your reply went right to Amazon and ordered it! So you mentioned you used this on your amps, but I know my issue is my preamp. What I’m going to do is either plug the McIntosh into the Hum-X and then plug the Hum-X into my Furman Elite, or plug the McIntosh into the Hum-X and then go to a different wall outlet thus separating the McIntosh from the circuit altogether. Someone suggested I try going direct to the wall outlet with the McIntosh. I figure trying that with the Hum-X might do it🤞🏻!

Thank you so much for this reply! Great to hear it solved your problem! Hopefully it’ll do the same for me. Otherwise St John the Evangelist down the street will be getting a call😂

Great replies @tkhill ​​​​@strawj! I used the opportunity when I relocated a few things when I introduced the McIntosh to clean and dust-another great call on this thread! You guys truly are awesome! And my Hum-X will arrive Thursday so tomorrow I try plugging the McIntosh into a separate outlet direct and see if that makes the buzz go away. Next step if that doesn’t work is to unplug everything 1 at a time from my Furman Elite. Then plug everything back one at a time to see if it in fact maybe isn’t the McIntosh. But I have already unplugged several components including the 2 subs and the cable box and that didn’t change anything. So I’ll go all the way in tomorrow.

I did disconnect all my XLR IC’s from the Titan amp and there was no buzz so I know it’s not the power amp. My IC’s are all Transparent Plus so I know they’re solid. I really am almost convinced it’s the McIntosh but we’ll dig a bit more tomorrow…

Thank you all once again for supporting and going on this journey with me👍🏻!

@wanganui  Thank you very helpful! nI just tried my last resort-the Hum-X and nothing! Buzz/hum still there...

Try another you mean other than McIntosh? Are they all prone to this?

And I am wireless with my router..

Thanks @jb1. I don’t think it’s a ground loop. I have literally tried everything. I unplugged everything one component at a time and buzz/hum still there. The only time it went away is when I disconnected all the IC’s between the Mac and my amp. So I know it’s not my amp (only the speaker cables were connected to the amp at that point). It has to be the Mac. Someone else above said they had the same problem and it’s the Mac…it’s definitely livable as you can only hear it when you put your ear within a couple inches of the tweeters. And you cannot hear it while anything is playing🤷‍♂️. That said just knowing it’s there I just can’t seem to get my head around just living with it, but I feel short of selling it, I’ve tried everything that’s been suggested and then some-including taking it to a Mac service center but to your point I’m not sure that will do anything😔…

Thanks for replying @dpop and great call. I thought of disconnecting the XLR cables 1 by 1. Have not tried that. But yes when I disconnected the XLR's between the Mac and my amp (everything else was connected at this point to the Mac and all the speaker cables to the amp), the buzzing was gone. My cables are Transparent Plus XLR's and they are under 2 years old so I figured it could not be the cables (and again taking into account the buzz was not there with my previous processor). But what else do I have to lose at this point? I will give that a shot. Again thank you for taking the time to respond and help😀

I actually tried the Hum-X which essentially is the same as using a cheater plug. It didn’t work, still had the him. Whilst I didn’t try the cheater plug specially, the fact that the Hum-X didn’t work leads me to believe the cheater wouldn’t have any effect. 
 

How would I connect a wire between the grounds on the amp and Mac? I don’t really see anywhere on either to connect a wire?

You know I also had a Leviton whole house surge protector installed last year as well. Then a week later had the dedicated 20 amp circuit for the HT rig…I figured I’d be safe as kittens from any outside dark forces trying to infect my rig😂🤷‍♂️…

@couger4u Thank you so very much for this reply! Honestly man it does help, more than you know. I had my very first “true” listening session this morning with my new speaks semi broken in (and the first session with the Mac quarterbacking the system) and like your experiences it sounded magnificent. It honestly made me forget the buzz was there. Because like yours, it is very faint and cannot at all be heard anywhere except ear to tweeter from 2 inches out and in. Fortunately my listening spot is much further out, LOL!

I just feel/felt my OCD needed to be sure I tried everything I could and honestly I really am there. Sure if I come across anymore suggestions I’ll try, but in the meantime I’m going to get back to focusing on the sound. Honestly thank you for this reply. Empathy and just knowing I’m not alone and that there are others who were able to move forward with this issue helps immensely! Sure I’m OCD, but I think adding the 5 brand new speakers at the same time as introducing the Mac gave me such high hopes and when the very first thing you hear is a buzzing, it’s like, well you know…

Thank you @couger4u…sincerely my friend..

Thank you again for all of your time @dpop! So just like a normal speaker wire between the 2? No experience with this kind of thing? 

Hi @dpop so give the cheater a try, I actually had ordered one on on Amazon but the Hum-X arrived first so once that didn't work, I didn't bother trying the cheater. But I'll give it a try. One thing my amp is a C19 20 amp connection, I'm thinking trying the cheater on that would not be a good idea?

@dpop I can't not thank you again for taking the time to help me here. Thank you...I'll try the cheater on the Mac...

So I just tried the cheater on the Mac and buzz still there (I tried going direct to a different wall outlet with the cheater and then using the cheater into the Furman with the Mac). Yes the wall plug is a 20 amp dedicated circuit. That is where the Furman and Simaudio amp are plugged into. The Mac is plugged into the Furman (as is every other component). The receptacle does have the 90 degree slots but both plugs (the amp and the Furman do not have the 90 degree plug, the Furman original cord did but I use a Shunyata 20 amp plug instead of the Furman stock cord). But I've used this Shunyata from the get go with the Furman and never had an issue until introducing the Mac...

@dpop  So as each balanced interconnect is plugged back in the buzz comes back in that particular speaker/channel. So it seems it is somehow connected to the XLR inputs?

@dpop so the only reason I didn’t hear the buzz with the 1 cable plugged in was because it was the rear and I didn’t listen to that one speaker. As I plugged the 2nd rear in that’s when I caught on that as soon as the XLR cable is plugged back in the buzz comes back in that particular speaker/channel…

@dpop The cables are all less than 2 years old and they are Transparent Plus so they’re not cheaply made, they’re solid…

@dpop So everything else is connected in the system like always (no ground wire connected), I disconnected the first 4 XLR's from the Mac leaving just 1 XLR between Mac and amp connected and buzz is gone??? What does this mean???

Thank you again (broken record but can't not keep saying it)...

Definitely not easily, but I think I can do it. Unfortunately, damn work is now going to get in the way😡. I won't be able to get to this until tomorrow AM...But first thing I'll connect the ground wire...

Until tomorrow once again @dpop thank you, thank you, thank you. Sincerely man. Your time and support are greatly greatly appreciated. I will do the wire first thing tomorrow and report right back as soon as the experiment is completed...Have an awesome night and thank you again!

Thanks man, skill level is novice, I'm already over my head as soon as we get past connecting stuff, sorry😯...I have stripped the jacket off of a wire before but yeah definitely don't want to play with that with the Transparent cables...

And yes, the buzz would have been there I just didn't put my ear up to that speaker but as soon as I plugged the 2nd rear in the buzz was there in both speaks at the exact same level whether 2 are connected or all 5. This buzz is steady, doesn't fluctuate...guess that's a silver lining😬

Yes to all your questions and the buzz stays the same level no change whatsoever as each cable is plugged back in…And my goodness please do not apologize for anything, you are so helping me man…

Yeah definitely not the Revel’s, mere coincidence…

Thanks so much again @dpop! Unfortunately I do not have any other XLR cables. I do have some old speaker wire I can hook up though. Does it matter if I use the positive or negative to connect the 2 units with the ground?

You wouldn't by any chance live near the NH area would you? Be happy to pay for your services to come out, LOL!

Yes very interesting (or ironic/coincidental) about the Revel’s. I connected the Mac and the brand new Revel’s at the exact same time. Fwiw I have Performa3 208’s, 208C, and M105’s. Yes had to jump on that 30% off sale, couldn’t resist!

I am going to disconnect XLR’s and try the RCA’s first thing in the AM. Then I’ll try connecting the wire for the ground between the Mac and Sim…

I did separate the XLR cables from any power cables and used a zip tie to keep them from separating and touching any power cables…I checked out that XLR ground lift cable via the link you sent. How does that work do you just plug the XLR cable into that and then plug the whole thing into the Mac? Like if it worked would I need 5 of those on each XLR cable I have?

No separating the cables made no audible difference whatsoever. This buzz has been steady and has not wavered from the first second it reared it’s evil presence😂!

I actually contacted Hosa the company and spoke with a gentleman in their tech support and ran this by him. He didn’t think their ground lift XLR would help as they are designed for microphones, but he admitted he did not know very much about home audio/HT. But I went and ordered one anyway☺️, cuz like you said it’s easy enough to return (like I just did with the Hum-X), and why not at this point?!

The Transparent cables are all 1.5m each…Guess I could also order an el cheapo XLR too, because again why not?!

@dpop  what if I tried disconnecting the XLR’s and try RCA (I do have some of those Transparent as well actually though lower end of their line). Why not right?

Welcome @illaheman ! @dpop you're developing a following😂! But it’s a true reflection on your character that you have taken all of your valuable time to help. Cannot convey enough how much it is truly appreciated (though I’ll keep trying to convey😌).

Love what you said and that’s my thought and why I’m struggling to just accept because I have spent so much and dammit I think I (we all) deserve crisp clean sound!

As the great Jimmy V used to say “Don’t ever give up”! And like I mentioned earlier in this thread, the last resort is to call the church and have them send in a priest to get rid of this evil presence😂! 

I’m still in the fight man-thanks to you @dpop 👍🏻👊🏻

Holy $h!t! Wow I just saw all this @russ69 thank you! 
 

@dpop thank you isn’t even nearly enough-I just ordered the last 2 @ Parts Express via the link you sent. I just got home and heading to bed and saw this. Without even looking into it I went and ordered the last 2😂, even after reading that article from Upscale that @russ69 referenced (very powerful article man-thank you). Have to get to bed but will follow up later after some sleep…

Thank you all and @dpop your generosity is off the charts…I’ll pm you later, thank you👍🏻 for your incredibly generous offer!

Hi All, 

So at this point having ordered the 2  Pro Co XLR adaptors referenced by dpop I'm thinking holding off until they arrive before trying anything else at this point. But I may still try the RCA's and see if that does anything? I think the gain on the XLR between the Sim and the Mac sounds like it could be the ticket (but I have absolutely no idea as this is way beyond my limited knowledge here) but hearing the phrase "2 components not playing nicely together" several times this sounds like exactly what is meant? If this is the issue and it seems so many have this kind of issue it's weird that you don't hear much more about it when matching separate amps to separate pre's? You would think this would be publicized more about using caution or being aware of this potential issue, no?

@dpop just PM'd you...

What a whirlwind this has become and @russ69 and @dpop I honestly would describe it is a combo hiss/buzz. Here I am now listening closely like a critical listening session to describe it, LOL!!! That's awesome-still keeping the sense of humor especially after reading that article again from Upscale and the new shot of enthusiasm and hope provided by the incredibly selfless @russ69 ​​​​@dpop! 

Question for @russ69 , why would I need the XLR RCA adaptor in my situation? Wouldn't the XLR 10 db attenuator pad attached to each of my XLR cables work?

You know what is weird? About 1 1/2  years ago I reached out to Simaudio (I bought my Titan amp used 2 years ago and realizing this piece although in amazing condition and was sounding just amazing, it was approaching 20 years) to see what if anything I should do to care for this unit. They recommended sending it to them for "cleaning and calibrating". So I did. Knowing I was going to be without the unit for a few months I bought a Monolith 5 channel amp as a backup (the price was right at $1599 at the time) to get me through. Once I introduced this unit with my Marantz AV8802A, there was a faint hum/buzz - come to have been thinking about it it was very similar to what I have now - but chalked it up to this being a lower end and knowing it wasn't there with the Sim, I wasn't too concerned. Once I got the Sim back and connected it, buzz/hiss gone. I just remembered this today! And from what I recall it was very faint and didn't change volume wise like this current possession of my rig! 

Just maybe the lifters or the attenuators will be the proper exorcism to get rid of this particular evil entity😂🤞

Hi @dpop!

No, no volume, no remote with the Sim...

Thanks again @dpop! I have always found Transparent cables to be more “my taste” if you will. I have used several others but there just seems to be something extra once I bring in the Transparents. I love the speaker cables and IC’s, however I don’t care much for their power cables. On that I’m strictly Shunyata. I have no scientific data to prove any of this, just my ears😬! 
 

The ground adaptor I ordered from Amazon arrived late today so I won’t have a chance to connect that until tomorrow AM. Also the 2 ground lift cables from Parts Express I ordered via the link you sent are arriving tomorrow…I’ll have an update on the Amazon one in the AM and will update also again after trying the 2 cables from Parts X…

So you mentioned Ned that high gain of the Sim amp. Might a 20db attenuator be needed? I did see a few of those while I was browsing?

Ned??? I have no idea where that came from😂! Damn auto-incorrect!

Hi @dilatante , thank you very much for sharing. And yes what I am getting seems exactly like yours and is through all 5 speakers. @dpop ​​​​@russ69 also believe it is the higher output gain of the Mac/Sim combo. 
 

And yes it can only be heard by putting my ear within about 2 inches of the tweets and is certainly not audible when anything is playing even at low volume. And it certainly cannot be heard from any normal listening position. So it is not intrusive and I know it’s common and many people live with it, but my OCD knowing it’s there when it wasn’t before won’t allow me to let it be until I’ve exhausted all feasible options, you know😬? I have a ground lift XLR adapter arroving tomorrow I’m going to try and then a 10db XLR attenuator arriving Friday. I’m really hoping/thinking one of these just may do the trick🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻! If not, as I’ve mentioned I’ve got St John’s The Evangelist church on standby to send in the exorcist😂! I know that’ll get rid of this evil entity I’m just not up for the mess I’ve seen these things create😂! In all seriousness I know it’s something I can live with and if all else fails I’ll be fine…I literally connected the Mac (bought it used but new to my system) and my brand new 5 Revel’s at the exact same time expecting nirvana and as I was pulling the grills off I heard it😳😳! It was like that scene near the end from Jeepers Creepers when the Creeper literally punches a whole right through the cop-that’s how I felt😳😂

Thank you again for sharing and taking the time to reply👍🏻😊!

And thank you @russ69!. I know I’d still have plenty of volume to listen as loudly as my Maiden proofed ears can handle! I was asking if maybe I needed the 20db’s if the gain difference was that vast…

You know something @dpop ​​​​@russ69, I was just thinking about all of this and honestly if at the end of all of this my system is still possessed by this evil entity, you all turned this into an amazingly positive experience. Honestly. Regardless of outcome you have turned my shock and horror into a true positive experience. That will be my take away from this. So thank you, sincerely…😊👌🏻

Wow! Lots of great info @dpop! Thank you again for taking so much time going over these manuals and for being so “invested” in helping. Wish I could repay you somehow…

From what I understand (could very easily be wrong) Transparent utilizes the network boxes on their cables for “calibrating and shielding”. Not sure if they actually do anything but they look cool and it seems they go the extra mile with their cables. Plus they’re local to me here in New England which also attracted me to them initially but the affect they had on my system is when I became loyal.

Thank you for pointing out the volume as I actually do listen quite loudly, so good to know ahead of time about this as that would have completely escaped me and I’d have freaked a bit wondering why I now had to turn up the volume more (64 is what I set the volume at in 2 channel when I listen-if 5 Iron Maiden concerts hasn’t made me totally deaf by now I don’t think this can do much more damage😂🤘🏻). I had no idea or paid any attention to the Volume Limit adjustment. If I recall I think I may have even set that to off? Could be wrong but I’ll certainly try playing with that-great call and great tip!

So tomorrow the ground lift adapters arrive and Friday the 10db attenuator arrives. If neither of these 2 work, next try will be swapping the XLR’s for RCA’s. And thanks for being so proactive I was actually going to ask whether to put them on the Mac or Sim end!

So the Mac is literally double the output gain of the Marantz, so just maybe this is the issue? In relative terms is that a big difference, enough to wreak a little havoc? Keep in mind the Sim is 20 years old. I did just have her serviced and got a glowing bill of health from Sim and I know they “overbuild” their amps but she’s not a puppy anymore☺️…

I’ll also try hitting mute and see what that does. I do have the mute set to “full”…

Yet again thank you so much for being right there every step on this journey @dpop God knows I’d have never EVER been able to get anywhere near as far without you man…

@russ69 ​​​​@dpop just read this in the Titan owner manual:

The gain in each channel is the same among all balanced inputs and among all unbalanced inputs, but NOT the same among balanced and unbalanced inputs. Keep this in mind when level matching, if you are using a combination of both types of inputs.

So it would appear switching to RCS’s won’t make any difference, no?

Thank you @dilatante and definitely noted. You all make such great cases and like I said above because of so many thoughtful, helpful, insightful, and supportive replies from all of you the outcome is now secondary and if I live with it, I will sleep much better at night and not worry about it anymore. The positivity and great support has truly been not a silver lining, a gold one! Wish I could do more but a deep sincere thank you is the most I can so humbly offer...

I already have the attenuator and ground lifter (I think they may have just arrived) so I might as well try and see? But I will now listen more closely once they're in to see if I lose any signal purity. I can always return them. Knowing this is so common and that so many live with it, and yes that mine is so inaudible except ear to tweet, I have now started to enter acceptance phase😂😁🤣. And though I can't "unhear it" (love that one @dilatante😁), I can really now wrap my brain around it thanks to all of you...

Thank you @sleepwalker65 , so are you suggesting I go to RCA IC's? 

@dilatante great point on the fully balanced. I am pretty sure both the Mac and Sim are fully balanced, I know the Sim is actually and I have to believe the Mac is as well...

Thanks for clarifying @sleepwalker65 unfortunately that is so far over my skillset I wouldn't even know where to start. Are there any other already made XLR's that you know of that could solve this issue?

Thank you again all for staying the course with me😊! @davidrolon thanks for sharing your issue, my router is on another floor so it’s totally separate from the system..

@russ69 ​​​​@dpop just an update, the ground lift adapter and attenuator are arriving today…I’ll report back as soon as I get them and install. I am concerned about signal quality but at this point since they’re already on their way gotta try them, right?😬