Looking For Candidates For That Mythical 6922 Tube
I have spent a bit of time looking at 6922 tubes for a PS Audio BHK 250 Signature. I currently have two tubes that work relatively well, but really are not exactly what I need.
So far it has been a pair of Siemens 6922 Gold Pin branded under RCA. Or a pair of Telefunken 6922.
The Siemens have nice space, and a rich mid band. However the top end does not have the clarity and energy I would like. The Telefunken are more extended, but are lean in the upper mids, and have a bit of a threadbare feel.
I have used Amperex Bugle Boy Holland and Orange Globe. I have tried some tubes from GE, Sylvania, Tungsram, and new Gold Lion. Nothing else betters the two I am currently using.
Anyone have any recommendations that strike a balance between the Siemens and the Telefunken? I have read a bit about the Reflektor 6N23P with silver shield from 1975 as being a desirable tube. Any thoughts?
So yesterday the JJ 6922 goldpin tubes delivered. Out of the box they were a bit bright and harmonically lean. I chalked it up to being an inexpensive tube, but I did notice its tonal balance was more in line with what I wanted to find. So I kept the tube running hoping that they would smooth out, but really kind of doubting it. Played all afternoon and then mid evening the sharp edges started to wear down. I listened more before I went to work this morning...which is really my dining room table for the forseeable future...and then when my day finished.
Its not bad at all. I can listen to this far easier than I could the various Amperex, Siemens, and some other tubes I tried. It bodes well for the Voskhod that are on the way. I have to wait till May 8 for delivery, so I got a bit of time to run these in. Its not bad though at all, and there might be a possible solution for keeping the BHK here after all.
Well I am waiting for some tubes to arrive. This might be my last ditch effort to find a working combination. I ordered a couple pair of the Voskhod 6n23p with the single wire and getter, We will see how these work out.
As a wild card, I also ordered a pair of JJ gold pin 6922 to try. I remember quite awhile ago when searching for tubes I ran across someone who got the type of sound I am looking for with this series of JJ. Not sure its really going to work, but I have tried a few of the well regarded European tubes and had mixed results. So far the Telefunken 6922 is still the best suited for what i need.
Last weekend I did reinstall a First Watt F7 into the system. I enjoyed the sound quite a bit, but I wanted to put the BHK back in for a parity check. I liked the F7, but I could use a bit more power than its 20 wpc, but it has a presentation that I gravitate to. It seems to say that SS is what I am really searching for, but since I own the BHK 250 Signature I thought I would take one last chance to find a sound that can satisfy. I have tried the Tungsram 6922, and they are favorable, I just care for the tonal presentation of the Telefunken over these. Perhaps there is a Tungsram variation I would like, but I just wonder at what point I should call it a day, and quit trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.
One thing I had considered regarding SS is I know where a pair of AVM Essential mono blocks are. Te AVM gear is hard to find info on in the US, and information on the Essential products is non-existent here. From what I can tell they look to be in line with what I am looking for, but I sure would be more comfortable buying a set if I could find more details about owners experiences with them.
I know what Neonknight means but I don't agree completely. But some thoughts on this topic: I nearly had all of these tubes mentioned in the thread; I used them in my Audio Research both LS2 and LS7 and in a German pre by the manufacturer Raphael Audio (cathode follower). In the Raphael Tesla E88CC work pretty well as do Tesla PCC88/7DJ8 (I could not hear any difference between E88CC and 7DJ8). They sound elegant with no emphasis on the upper or lower frequency band. All in all, the tube(s) made me happy, no further reason for tube rolling. But when I put theTesla (old production, blue and yellow label) into both my AR linestages, I was heavily disappointed. I missed the air and liquidity I was used to, and the sparkling highs as well. Telefunken 7DJ8 did a much better job, Philips (Dutch production, stainless steel getter) are at the same level, the latter a tad more intimate and a tad less dry. But there was one tube that outperformed them all: The Tungsram 7DJ8. There is also a Tungsram 6922 on the market some guys praise highly, but I have to admit I did not buy them, way too expensive. And another tube that delivered sheer bliss in the first two positions of my AR LS7: The Tungsram 7ES8/PCC189. These delivered more punch, greater dynamics and authority with any lack of clarity and detail. I do not know how these work in other preamps, but they fit my needs exactly. Don't be shy to buy these tubes, I think they are cheaper in Europe, especially here in Germany, but I am not shure.
+2 on the Matsushita/National 7DJ8 . I've been touting this tube on here for many years. So much so, that Kevin is getting very low on stock and unfortunately, the prices have gone up.
IMHO, one of the best 6DJ8/6922/7308 family, (or equivalent) of tubes ever.
If you have never tried the Russian 6h23n /6n23p Rocket logo Voshkod then you are really missing an opportunity. They are cheap and sound wonderful ! I have pretty much gone through them all --Bugle Boys 6dj8s on up the line through most all 6922s /7308s Siemens , Amperex ,Telefunkens , JJs, Phillips, Mullards you name it . Voskhod 6h23n beat them all!!! So please don't throw me out of hear )))) But seriously , I ask , If you have not tried a pair please do . Best years are early to mid 70s . Single wire post ( very important )
Oh speaking of Amperex 6922pq. Bought a pair of those too. Not enough clarity and transparency. Too much of that tube warmth to work in this system. Nice tube...for a different system.
Well then, Amperex and Mullard are out; they reveal lots of textures. IME, the 7308 Siemens West Germany would be worth a try. And with Telefunken, there is a difference between the smooth plates and the ribbed plates.
So I have been down the road of several of the Amperex, a couple of Siemens, Tungsram, Telefunken, and I forget what else. Never been a fan of a Mullard that I heard, one of those tubes would have to be far different than what the typical Mullard house sound is.
What I really want is a tube that sounds like a good transistor! I don't want tube warmth, sweet highs, or gobs of texture. To be honest I used to be a tube guy, especially SET, but these speakers have no interest in playing nice with tubes. Even just one lousy pair in the pre drive stage of the amp.
So why am I torturing myself? Well I own it, and I wouldn't care if I sold it, but as you may have noticed with COVID19 very little audio equipment is selling, its not a high priority for folks right now. So I own it, and figure I might as well as try as hard as I can to get this thing voiced to where it works well with my JBL 4365. Now I put a pair of Maggie 1.6QR in front of it and I am looking for a tube like those Amperex, as that speaker is much more upfront and wants a bit of that tube goodness.
But with the JBL I want a tube that sounds like a quality transistor.
I've used that Reflektor tube in my Dac.For what it's worth,it has very good bass in that application but nothing special about the highs.Mullards seem to have the most extended highs.
Regarding Amperex, I agree with @three_easy_payments that the premium tubes are way better than Bugle Boys. They were manufactured in both USA and Holland and are called 6922 Amperex PQ. Liquid midrange and an extended yet smooth top-end, it’s a lively tube. Also, there's the 7308 Amperex PQ Holland, having more slam and a fuller, less transparent sound. As I said very lively tubes, but do not have the high-end energy of Siemens or Telefunken.
Try real NOS 1960s and 1970s Amperex (Holland and USA made) 6922 tubes and not the later ones branded as Bugle Boy. Also Mazda may give you the great high end you are seeking. I personally go for a totally different sonic signature in my preamp and use NOS Mullards...liquid and smooth across the entire spectrum with a firm bottom end.
If looking for more punch up top, try Mullard 2492s or 2493s. I ran the 2492s before switching to Telefunken E88CCs, and they were very good, just a little brighter than I wanted.
Long story short-- I feel that I have pretty much run the gauntlet on the 6922 tube variants over the years. I even had my eye on a BHK preamp wondering exactly what improvements I could render by adding a pair of my all time favorite tube . I did not buy the Pre so I may never know . I have a copland 305 CTA I decided to keep . It uses 2- 6922 tubes . I want to say that about the only 6922 tube that I have not spent time with over the years a CCa . So I really can't say too much about that . But I feel the best in my gear over the years would be the 6h23n or the 6n23p russian Voskhod not the Reflektor . Early 70s around 73, 74. 75 or so . I bought a nice pair of Reflectors to try but they just did not have the natural tone in my system that the Vokhod's do . The tubes are a giant killer and can be had on ebay at very good prices. Be careful though , most all are out of russia or the Ukraine and they advertise NOS but most are used to some extent . I have had pretty good luck overall with most of my dealings with them on ebay. I have a tube tester and I keep backups around so if you want ? PM me and I will arrange to send you a pair on loan to try . They will be used but they will give you a pretty good idea of what you can get. One other thing , you want the single post 6h23n/6n23p from the early to mid 70s . DO NOT GET- the 6h23n-EB or the 6n23p-EVs . They are a more rugged version but don't sound near as good . Also--- I am not a big fan of Russian tubes . these are the only ones over the years that I feel really stand out . Even above the European tubes. Hope that helps . Just my 2 cents worth. YMMV
Neonknight, it is all about noise levels. I have an older ARC phono amp using 6922's. It is my favorite tube. Go here
http://www.tubeaudiostore.com/ and get Super Low Noise 6922's. All these tubes are tested and sorted into three groups (four actually as some are tossed) Normal, Low Noise and Super Low Noise. You get one Super Low Noise tube out of 100 tubes tested. I have been through a bunch of NOS tubes and none of them come remotely close to these. I am a pretty frugal guy but I promise you these tubes are realllly worth the money. I bought another set after Mr Modjesky passed on worried the store would close but fortunately it has survived.
+1, regarding the Siemens CCa, but- the early Sixties, grey shields, which exhibit cleaner, high end sparkle and energy. In my system; the later, silver shield/internal date code, CCa was a bit strident/edgy.
Overall, I have favored Mullard tubes in the past. On the
recommendation of Kevin at Upscale Audio I purchased a pair of
Matsuhita/National 7DJ8 (6922 replacement) tubes for my headphone amplifier.
They are well-balanced top to bottom, very quiet and won’t break the bank. No
affiliation with Upscale Audio, just a long time (satisfied) customer.
Siemens 7308/E188CC; the CCA if you can afford them. The 7308 are premium 6922 tubes. Telefunken are very linear tubes, the midrange will not have any emphasis or warmth.
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