"As far as engineering and construction goes, the thrust plate in the bearing well is machined so precisely, you cannot measure its flatness mechanically. You have to use wavelengths of light to measure it. Hardly obsolete."
Mechanical measurement of surface roughness is at least two orders of magnitude more accurate than using light (see atomic force microscopy). This has to be one of the most inane comments I've read in quite awhile. |
Chazro, I guess you bought the only other one, besides mine, that isn't fussy. I bought mine in the mid 70s, had it updated a couple of times, last tuned about 15 years ago. I've never had the first problem and it still sounds great. I've had two other tables but I always come back to the Linn. What other electronic product can you count on to work flawlessly for 30 plus years? |
Owned mine since '90. I've had it "tuned up" once in '03, which, unless you're truly a 'hands-on' person, should be done on ANY TT older than a decade. My Linn has never failed me and has always sounded great. Maybe I lucked out and bought the only one that isn't 'fussy'!;) |
In response to Eee3 I never said that newer was better. I am responding to the fact that linn is not competitive at it's price point with better designed tables. I for one cannot understand the statement if it ain't broke don't fix it? We are not talking about waffle iron's here but an expensive TT. That has not kept up with most if not all the competition with all it's years in existence. When the Goldmund studio first came out it trashed the Linn with it's looks and use of newer material's which contributed to a better performance. Yet through it all Linn never addressed it's inferior built and the lack of wanting to use better known materials. I will concede if not for the use of the Pabst motor on many older Goldmund's they would have sold at first glance before anyone would have considered a Linn. I also find it laughable with the need of an expert Linn setup technician to float the table "suspending it in mid air" so to correctly set it up. There are tables from VPI, Rega and many other's that would take most of 45min or less to set up rightly out of box with better sound and with reliability of setup. |
A 1979 LP12 is not competitive with the best of today but a 2009 LP 12 is.
The only thing that's obsolete about a current spec LP 12 is its appearance, which definitely has a retro '60's or 70's look to it. It's not as nice looking as newer designs, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I might like the look of something jazzier, but I'm not going to get rid of my table for appearance any more than I would trade in my wife for looking a little older than a more current woman.
As far as engineering and construction goes, the thrust plate in the bearing well is machined so precisely, you cannot measure its flatness mechanically. You have to use wavelengths of light to measure it. Hardly obsolete.
Whether you like the Linn sound or not is a different question. But this has nothing to do with obsolescence. People who don't like Linn perhaps use the obsolescence argument to cover their real point, i.e. they just don't like the Linn and prefer other tables for a variety of reasons. Rather than extol the virtues of their own table, they try to make their table look better by attacking the competition.
My complaints about the Linn are its non-user friendly set-up and the excessive price of its upgrades. Perhaps Linn is trying to squeeze as much out of it while they can before it dies, to be replaced by computer based audio.
It is not the table that is obsolete, it is the technology itself that is obsolete. And that applies to all tables, soon to be followed by CD players. |
I have not thrown away my LP-12. I have even inherited another one and optimized the original. It works well, I get to play my vinyl, I don't think too much about it. Am I wow'ed by the new designs? Yes! Am I going to spend as much as buying a new car to replace the Linn? No!
I do think that a lot of the negative attitudes we are hearing these days is Linn's fault. I think they are overpriced. If they have been tweaking the same basic design for so many years, I would expect design and production costs have been minimized. If I were looking for a new table, I would be checking out the competition, which has grown so significantly, that I would also expect Linn to be re-evaluating their position in the market.
I have also been disappointed with dealer service. This may be a localized problem, but now I go to an independent expert now whom I trust. This now sounds more negative than I actually feel. I can't really complain about so many years of reliable and musical performance. |
No. Not in my opinion. That's not to say that a Linn can't sound pretty good. |
First, let start out by saying newer is not always better!
In response to Schipo. Linn is still considered to be one of the better turntables around(according to most of the audiophile rags)and the reason that they haven't change their design philosphy is because one, its been tried and proven and two, if ain't broke don't fix it.
Linn has been at the forefront of turntable design philosphy for the last 35 yrs. or more. They must be doing something right! They're still selling a hell of a lot of turntables! I'm sure that having been in business as long as they have, they're intellegent enough to know when a major design change is necessary.(how many turntables has the audio critic sold?)
Folks kill me with this obsolete design argument. Its not about design or specs, its ultimately about how it sounds in your system. Again, folks have been saying for years that tube amps are an old antiquated design yet, the tube amp industry has been florishing for the last 10-15 yrs.
I wonder why? Its because real audiophiles listen with their ears! Its not necessarily about the latest technology or newest design, its about how the component performs!!! |
Well over the course of 1957 to present and having damn near owned ever table out there at one time or another as well as the Linn menetioned in this thread. I contiune to return to VPI turntables for many reasons.
The build quality is second to none, the upgrade path is there should one want to go that route. Straight out of the box they work as intended. Parts, service and advice just a phone call away. Solid dealer network. Stand behind their product.
When one considers all the parameters one needs to have for the analog medium, VPI stands at the top of my list. |
The LP-12 is a good enough turntable. My personal experience included endless upgrades and revisions which left me more and more dissatisfied. I went back to using an idler driven Dual 1229 which was completely rebuilt and then installed a Grace 747 tonearm. I love the pace, pitch and power of idler drive, especially with solo piano and small jazz ensembles. The Thorens TD-124 is an amazing turntable and if you are into swaping out arms at a moments notice, the arm board on the 124 is a jewel to change. I have also recently heard a properly set up Garrard 301 with the Shindo platter mods. Wow! If you have the opportunity, seek out a Garrard 301 with the Shindo mods and give it a listen. You may never want to hear anything else. |
It certainly doesn't get the press like it used to. My lp 12 upgraded was as good as the Notinghams,vpi,sota which I have also owned. I kept searching for better and found that it wasn't the table but the weak phono stages. I wish I had the linn lp 12 with my dartzeel preamp |
Never. I think, there is worse out there, but at the moment I don't know what. |
on paper, you can make a case that there are many, many better turntables old and new. 'no table' however (flawed or not)has made a worldwide emotional connection to more vinyl junkies than the linn. even today,its 'an enigma with an attitude' that plays a flawed media close to perfection.....an aside, I'm a thorens person and prefer lots of their models over a 124. |
Linn LP-12 is reviewed by the Audio critic extensively and the prognoses is, that it is an Obsolete old design. I wonder why Linn unlike other's does not put out another table? One that uses newer materials with more modern technical innovations so to retrieve more information off of vinyl. I can only say if they did, then they would be admitting that the Lp12 is a flawed design and not up to more modern offering's. I have always been very amused when I here that the Linn needs the support of a good tech to set the dinosaur up, when now you have companies such has Rega,Vpi, WTT and other's making products that are almost plug and play. I know that I am going to get the dander up with many a Linnie. Well so be it, that is what the forums are for. |
