@willgolf,
Good to read that the Western Electric 300bs are working out for you. Premium tubes for a premium amplifier.
Charles
Good to read that the Western Electric 300bs are working out for you. Premium tubes for a premium amplifier.
Charles
LinLai WE 300B or the LinLai Global Elite Permaloy 300B tubes ?
I presently am using Sophia Electric 300B mesh-plates and find them to sound good in general. I originally used the Sophia Royal Princess 300B's and really loved the sound, however in my experience, reliability was really poor and for the price, it wasn't any fun trying to get replacements. I'm getting ready to order new 300B's however would like to know if any of you have had experience with their WE 300B or their flagship Elite Permaloy 300B.
Thanks... John
Thanks... John
Showing 26 responses by charles1dad
@antigrunge2. "In the world of tubes, trial and error is indispensible" @sns "@antigrunge, you’re not complicating it at all, sound quality of these tubes has to always be taken in context of entire system. What may sound great in one system may not in another. Even with the reliability factor, context matters, one amp may run tube much harder than another." The truth and nothing but the truth. Charles |
@calloway, I hope that the new production Western Electric 300b works out fine in your superb Chalice Audio PSET amplifiers. Tube reliability is a real consideration. I was leaning toward buying the Lanlai Elite 101D. After a conversation with my Coincident Line stage builder (Israel Blume) I’ve changed my mind. He no longer sells the Lanlai due to consecutive failures/issues with 4 pairs that had to be returned. I’m just going to get another pair of the Psvane W.E Replica 101D that served me well for about 6 years or so. The Lanlai Elite 101D could indeed sound sensational but I don’t feel the need to risk potential reliable problems. The W.E. Replica are more than good enough. The near bulletproof EML experience has spoiled me. Charles |
@aricaudio, Your comments in regard to the Elrog 300b is definitely good to know. I believe that Thomas Mayer really has solve the previous issues with this tube (Actually the entire line up of their tubes) and they have proven reliable since his taking ownership 5 years ago. I say this because I no longer read or hear about tube failure since his arrival and company control. Aric I strongly suspect that the Lanlai is at least as reliable as the Psvane and quite possibly more so, of course time will tell. I plan to buy a pair of their 101D Elite tubes in the near future. I’ve had a very good long run using the Psvane W.E.Replica 101D and the Lanlai may be even better. I’m not surprised by your experience with the EML XLS . It’s often categorized as a "modern" sound 300b due to excellent frequency extension at both ends of the spectrum and clarity/transparency. Yet at the same time IMHO they retain an organic character and full bodied tonality. If EML made the 101D I’d swoop it up in a heartbeat. Nonetheless I do have very high expectations for the Lanlai Elite 101D. Charles |
. " I’ve noticed that it is a hard grader—tubes that test extremely strong on a TV-7 may not grade as well with the Amplitrex." Yes, agree with that assessment. My EML XLS pair tested very well but this was not the case for my 12 year old 6EM7 that originally came with my amplifier. One was poor and the other just okay. I will replace them with a new pair. It's been 12 years so no surprise. Charles |
http://amplitrex.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/at1000_001-1-1024x384.jpg I can vouch for this device’s ability to test a very broad variety of tube types. Charles |
@sns, I honestly believe that you’d be happy with the Lanlai Elite 300b. In regard to tube testing I had my EML XLS tested last week. This pair was purchased new in early (JAN/FEB) 2013 and have been used heavily in my Coincident Frankenstein 300b SET. @liquidsound, my friend has an Amplitrex tube tester. Reference scale for transconductance/gm is 90-100= "test like new" 80-89 = "Great" per this particular machine. My two EMLs tested 83 and 85 respectively. Impressive I thought after over 8 years of heavy usage. Lots of tube life remaining. Not inexpensive tubes but they last quite a while and have superb sound quality. Charles |
@sns, I'm going to email Israel. Ideally I'd like him to ship me the transformers (Amtrans volume control from PartsconneXtion or Amtrans directly) and I'll have them installed locally. Will see how it goes. 12 years I've owned the Statement Line Stage and Frankenstein mono blocks. They're permanent residents in my home😊. Charles |
@sns, Yes I'm definitely getting the message that the Amtrans volume control is a worthwhile acquisition. What specific selector knob should be ordered? Does it come directly from Amtrans ? I have a local tech who could make the swap. Is this a pretty straightforward job or are there issues to be aware of? Now I'm curious about the volume control transformers and what options are viable. upgrades. I really don't want to ship the 2 chassis unit to Canada 😊. I'd be happy with this these 2 modifications. Charles |
@sns, I was aware of the MK II upgrade when introduced a couple of years ago. I had no interest at the time due to my complete satisfaction with my MK I original model. I could see where an improvement of the volume control transformers could make a difference. The capacitors you refer to, are these in the power supply chassis? Interesting comment about the stock vs Amtrans volume control knobs. I used to chat with Israel occasionally but it has been quite awhile ago. I may have to get in touch again. I plan to keep the Statement line stage forever (LOL) so may strongly consider the MK II upgrade. Thanks again for the insight/feedback. Charles |
@sns, Thank you for the additional insight regarding the MK II upgrades compared to my original version. More natural sounding? That’s quite something as what I admire most about this Coincident Statement line stage is its pure and natural character (So pleasingly life like). Well anything (Certainly audio components) can be improved I guess😊. Charles |
@sns, I believe that if you were to take a chance on the Elrog you'd really like them, beautiful sound. No audio product receives 100% agreement when it comes to listening impressions and preferences. @brownsfan finds Elrog superior to the EML XLS , I do not. Different ? Yes but not better as each has its respective strengths. We both are seasoned listeners with discriminating taste (Fair to say I believe). In other words we know what we like, simple as that. Bottom line, you can not go wrong with either genuinely fine 300b tube. Charles |
@gsm18439, Interesting how your Takatsuki to KR audio 300b experience parallels my Takatsuki to EML. As much As I enjoyed and respect the Takasuki there was no looking back once I got the EML XLS. And as you note with your KR I did gain in dynamic performance (Even though the Takasuki itself dynamic). The high End eastern European 300b is just built in a heavy duty manner. Charles |
@vinylsavor wrote, "Maybe it is time to stop repeating that experience form the past.I think the last 5 years have proven that our tubes are not prone to failures anymore." Well I can only testify to what my real experiences were with the Elrog 300b. Beautiful sound but fragile. I clearly pointed out that mine were the first/early generation tubes and I offered no opinion of the current production Elrogs. If under your 5 year ownership of Elrog you have resolved the reliability/early tube failure issues then that is wonderful and encouraging to know. I wish you continued sucess. Charles |
@sns, My Coincident Frankensteins MK II purchased in 2009 came with Electro Harmonix 300b, a very solid/decent sounding tube. I replaced them with the Shuguang Black Treasure 300b. An immediately recognized improvement across the entire sonic spectrum. As you note very reliable and trouble free tube. Used them for about 3 years. When re-tested they were roughly 75% compared to brand new test measurements. Frankensteins were a bit hard on them (But near 7 hours 5- 6 days a week x 3 years). So yes heavy use. Moved up to the Takasuki and simply better in every conceivable way. One failed after 2 years and replaced by Takasuki with no hassle at all. Purchased EML XLS after 3 failures with the early generation Elrogs (Fortunately replaced under warranty). Purchased the EML and zero problems going on over 6 years. Sonically superior to the very good Black Treasure (Dynamics both macro/micro, more extended frequency at either end, more resolution and inner detail) . Also fuller body and richer tone, essentially more fleshed out (Like Takatsuki and Elrog). In my opinion the more expensive EML XLS is definitely worth it compared to the Black Treasure. A higher tier 300b that competes with Takatsuki and the Elrog. Although the EML fits the "modern " sound category it has an organic aura, definitely not dry or sterile. I’d say that the Takasuki is more organic however the EML is organic enough😊, very natural sounding. In my system the emotionally engaging quality is absolutely present. EML has a thick glass envelope and just feels solid and very well constructed when holding it in your hands. Bigger and heavier than the excellent Takatsuki. You can stick with the Black Treasure 300b and know you have a good quality tube. EML XLS is better at a higher cost. Charles |
@sns "but then different equipment may affect tube life differently. So now I'm really confused!" This is true. Some 300b amplifiers are more gentle (or tougher ) on the output tube than others. It depends on their chosen operational points (OP). I know that my Coincident Frankenstein 300b SET mono blocks are a bit tougher on 300bs than some other amplifiers with more conservative OP parameters. This is one reason why the EML XLS has worked out so well for me. This is a very rugged and durable tube. After 5 years of heavy use in my amplifiers they were re- tested and the numbers had not changed hardly a trace from when tested brand new. Above all they sound superb in my amplifiers. Reportedly they have a 40,000 hour life span (I don't doubt this). Caveat, in my opinion some brands of 300b sound/match better in some amplifiers compared to others. Synergy is always a factor. Charles |
@twoleftears, Thanks for providing the Stereophile link. Interesting commentary from Herb Reichert. He compared the new production western Electric 300b to lower price 300b alternatives. A more insightful and ’even playing field’ comparison would include EAT, EML, Elrog, KR Audio, Linlai Elite series and Takasuki. The Feliks Audio Arioso seems yet another fine 300b amplifier product from Poland. Along with Ancient Audio and the Closer Acoustics Provacateur (Thanks @david_ten). Apparently lots of music lovers in Poland 😉. Charles |
David, The Woo Audio 300b amplifiers have been well regarded for quite some for both sound quality and built quality. Mundorfs are very well regarded. I have to believe that those higher quality coupling capacitors and power supply capacitors would make a worthwhile sonic improvement. I can't speak precisely to how reasonable the upgrade cost is but probably good when considering the parts involved and the professional labor. Charles |
@sns, Thanks, I will read the 6Moons review. I would not be at all surprised if the mesh plate versus solid plate Linlai Elite 101D preference is tied to particular audio systems and components in use, simply synergy factors. Interesting in this instance you, Joel and I use the Coincident Statement Line Stage . Charles |
@sns, I owned the first generation of the Elrog 330b. Beautiful sounding but alas unreliable (3 tube failures in 1 year). If they have truly solved the early failure issue then I believe that you'd be happy with them. Takatsuki was excellent as well but had 2 tube fail over a 4 year period (Rare situation for them). I've been using the EML XLS 300b past 4 years. I love this tube in my Coincident Frankenstein SET amplifier . Charles |
@sns, Thanks for sharing your listening comparison of the Linlai Elite Mesh 101D and the Psvane W.E Replica 101D. I've been using the Psvane W.E Replica 101D for about 6 or 7 years and it has been excellent. I was unaware of the Linlai 101D but will look into as an alternative in my Coincident Statement Line Stage. Your sonic description intrigues me. Charles |