The first piece of music that made me fall in love with Phillip Glass, Symphony 1 (Low):
Let's talk music, no genre boundaries
This is an offshoot of the jazz thread. I and others found that we could not talk about jazz without discussing other musical genres, as well as the philosophy of music. So, this is a thread in which people can suggest good music of all genres, and spout off your feelings about music itself.
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Akhnaten is a masterpiece... Why ? Because Glass whose music root is also born from the music of his older friend Moondog, the street musician who learned music from the Arapaho tribe, Glass succeeded in recreating the tremendous power of the Ancient Egypt religiousness.. in his life , whose i read written by Philostratus, Apollonyos of Tyana , a seer known in all the world in the time of Christ, travelled in India and all around the known world, but he said according to Philostratus that no one is as religious as the Egyptians... Glass summoned as a magician something over time coming from the life of Akhnaten and his music ressuscitated the powerful faith of the Egyptian... i learned how think the Egyptian reading 50 years ago Schwaller de Lubicz in his huge book analysing the Louxor temple ( Lubicz predicted the Sphinx age on the spot seeing water erosion way before geologist Robert Schoch) ... Glass music contain something of this vision... it is miraculous not just a mere opera...
What is extraordinary also is the life of Omm Sety (Dorothy Eady) a reincarnated priestress of Abydos temple of Sety and lover of the pharaoh for which she was killed, Omm Sety hate Akhnaten and his story is better than all thrillers i ever read...And his Story ring true, Dorothy Eady was an egyptologist of the highest order self trained ... read the search for Omm Sety by Jonathan Cott ...i read it in one day few hours ...Stunning and true story... If you want to know why Omm Sety hated Akhnaten you must read the book of Cott... This book is the greatest love story by the way i ever read... Hollywood must do a movie here...I believe Omm Sety is real not a fake, she knew too much... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trj5dsNWgJ8
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Peter Pringle is a multi-instrumentist who sang in ancient languages and -play with the ancient instruments , his youtube chanel is a gem : An ancient love song from Egypt:
He sing here an hymn of the creation of the world on an ancient Egyptian harp (reconstructed ) begin at 7m 30 s : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miNd08mhuAw&list=RDmiNd08mhuAw&start_radio=1
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The second part of my first Moondog album bought exactly 51 one years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwBGtgoVPLs&list=PLtVo042bfbJjxkMT-4_DGyQ193vnEWsrj&index=30
Moondog taught me what is Earth rooted music few years before i discovered earth music ....
There is many Moondog albums here a treat for our ears especially for those who stay with their childhood: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLtVo042bfbJjxkMT-4_DGyQ193vnEWsrj |
I really don't know much about headphones. I have one pair for listening to TV and a better pair for listening to music, in case I want it loud and my wife is around. I didn't do a lot of research, but I'm pretty happy with what I have. I'm spending most of my streaming time listening to Tatiana Nikolaeva. It takes me time to understand an artist. Today I listened to her play Beethoven's Hammerklavier Sonata 29. Also Sonata 28. As I said, on Qobuz I have about 40 albums. I will look for Schubert next and see if she plays him. She seems to concentrate on Shostakovich, Bach, and a lot of Beethoven. She has such a different touch than more modern pianists who concentrate on a kind of smoothness, for lack of a better word. Gliding over the keys, whereas she will leave larger gaps between notes. Lacking a music education, that's the best I can describe it.
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Nikolayeva as Yudina plays with a timing gesture internal to mucic which emerge only with her playing specific gesture ( in some works near his soul not in all works) ... The musical time dimension is for me the spiritual content of the music, the yeast that makes bread rise... Nikolayeva in Shostakovitch is at home, she created his own "time" inside this music (not measurable because linked to his gestures life) she dont go after one time external to the music as many mere virtuoso may do : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d94DLBjTfZo&list=RDd94DLBjTfZo&start_radio=1
Here i will propose 2 versions of Bach violin sonatas i love, but one which is soundwise"perfect" with an "external" reading of time but a perfect articulation by Helen Schmitt who i admire a lot and listen often... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltg6HjRPDu4&list=OLAK5uy_ntxYVtHBa0xdlGCh6PAv1FIn6orW2BXyk
And the irrepleacable version over even perfection because born from an "internal" time gesture, then a spiritual force emerging and flowing as the eternal beginning of the world... Beware because the violonist recorded it two time and only one is at the peak, the 1952 version with a less well sound but an eternal godly heart beat. This version i did not listen so often because it is a too sacred occasion and i wait to be in the state of total awareness ( i use Schmitt walking outdoor she is magnificent) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFjpvZefMpA&list=RDYFjpvZefMpA&start_radio=1
These two exemple of playing demonstrated well the huge difference between internal time born from the musical gesture himself and a gesture so perfect it could be (Schmitt) but which use an external time... Any playing in any instrument by every musician at any time may varies in levels of spirit content and this distinction between internal time and external time gesture is not clear cut. But if we use top supreme interpretation into these two categories using the same work we can feel it clearly...
It is the same thing in Nikolaeva almost impossible to rival version of Shostakovich preludes for piano , most other pianists compared to her use an external time with their gesture , not an internal time gesture like a flowing pulse which cannot be reduced to rythm,beats,etc like an individual gesture walking expression is unique for each individual, or writing gesture expression in graphology ...
Music like poetry cannot be taught at the end, only awaken in individuals..
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When we speak we create our own time gesture... Now listen Nikolayeva playing "the art of the fugue" by Bach, it seems she speak and not only use the notes as notes but as vowels and consonants in a prayer ascending like a song ... Compare this with "perfect" Gould version which i like a lot too ... But here Gould played the notes not as words of a prayer singing but more as notes linked with an external timing in a perfect control percussive gesture for sure ...( we feel like Nikolayeva playing is more an improvisation instead)
It is my personal perception.... Anybody can feel otherwise for sure... Nikolaeva : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOCSBnCvOOQ&list=RDLOCSBnCvOOQ&start_radio=1
Gould: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAwgP7wpCYM&list=PLfdMKJMGPPty3BvGUEGJeCidp-lJsk_xF
Remember : i enjoy the two musicians here. But one seems more ascending in the depth... |
The same goes for me with the astonishing comparison between two versions of the Well tempered Klavier of Bach i loved...
The Version of Vladimir Feltsman is the one i loved the most for the same reason compared to the magnificent perfectly controlled version of Andras Schiff: There is plenty of others great versions of the klavier... I do not claim to know which is better... None is.... But i prefer those which is more akin to what i perceive as an internal gesture time dimension ....But i did not loose my pleasure listening the others as reading any major poets as Rilke for example dont erase the pleasure to read minor but good one ... Feltsman : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhpUeXI1fBs&list=PLzI6BT2ZG_AdecV0laI3t5kYmAl8bhSnf
Schiff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFnwy1xtFRk&list=PL1gAgJIplj-ksyosRdPE_-4FVlkp2oIbo
Here two i enjoy these two versions the most compared to others...but my favorite is Feltsman ....
I walk four hours each day and i listened music (mostly Bach) on my Hidizs dap with excellent farsoo kph40 headphone Koss clone ... I enjoy all Bach interpretations...I had at least 15 versions of "the art of the fugue" , probably the greatest musical work ever written. Interpretations i enjoy the most save the Felstman or Schiff one, is with Marriner orchestra or with Ristenpart...But i like them all ...
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During my recent return to records over the last few years, I opened a can of worms when I came upon a sealed copy of a Dimitris Sgouros (I'll have to dig out the title for you later) record. I honestly did not know who this kid was at the time. Belated 56th birthday to this kid who now shares my age hahaha. Time to revisit. |
I think I like Helen Schmitt better, but it is a close call with Szeryng. For me, it sounds as if Schmitt is playing somewhere in a cave deep in the earth. Szeryng in a way is more beautiful, but not as souldful. Nicolaeva over Gould. I think for me it will always be Nikolaeva, but I must compare her to Mitsuko Uchida if I can. Uchida has such a subtle touch which I have not heard in any other pianist. She has recorded all of Schubert's piano sonatas and his impromptus. I have both her recording and Schiff. Schiff is perfect but Uchida touches another dimension. You must listen carefully to hear it. She is like a Zen painter. Here is Uchida playing Schubert's Impromptu 899 second movement. What I would like you to listen to his her left hand and how she handles the harmonic theme. How she coaxes it out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9YTnoBqGI4 Here is Schiff and again listen to his left hand and how he andles the harmonic theme. |
Uchida is a genius especially in Mozart... ( Japan artists are special in my heart ) but i did not know her in Schubert i will go for it, thanks ...I dont doubt your opinion about Unchida and Schiff in Schubert, i guess you are right at my first listening ... For Schmitt i adore her... But you must listen Szeryng complete sonatas to understand his pulse way over every other interpretations i have heard... I like Schmitt for his sound articulation...but the spiritual time content is in Szering...pick the first version, the second is not on the same level at all, miracles occur once .
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I don't know if you watch TV and if so if you watch cable shows. There is a French show called Astrid about a woman on the spectrum who loves Bach's Art of the Fugue. After watching that show, I dug through my records, many of which I have forgotten I own, and found Zoltan Kocsis playing Art of the Fugue. I have been listening to it for a while now. I will have to compare it to some of the others you have suggested.
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After streaming a fair amount of Helene Schmitt and Henryk Szeryng, I would go with Schmitt hands down. There is one caveat, however; I am not sure how much of my opinion is due to the recordings. Sceryng's violin seemed edgy. He did not have the deep resonance, especially of the lower strings, that Schmitt has. I will have to listen to something other than Bach partitas to see if this is a quality of his or the recording. |
I cannot say nothing against this master pianist indeed... I will go for him ... I did not have this one... but i doubt it will replace Nikolaeva https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIoIPoA2DV0&list=PLfdMKJMGPPtzTChPnz9y772Y-t3z7_hWu |
As i said i love Schmitt playing...I even listen to her for casual listening or for the "sound" ...But Szeryng is reserved for sacred listening where sound recorded quality dont matter... And i played the devil here with you suggesting the bad recording of Szeryng versus the seducing Schmitt version... But so magnificent and beautiful is the violin sound and mastery of Schmitt, my prefered version, if Szeryng did not exist, there is no comparison at all for me between the two artists so transcendent is Szeryng here ...And i never listened to any other version because none rival him, but few rival Schmitt... But to be frank there is a version that rival Szering without surpassing him for sure : Nathan Milstein ( majestic just under Szeriyng ) and Josef Szigeti (completely original and fascinating and very different playing than any other violonists then out of competition so to speak, like Schmitt who speak but do not sing, Szigeti speak prose and do not sing but his prose is sublime eloquence over even Schmitt) And there is one version rival of Schmitt for me : John Ehnes (almost perfect playing and more integrated playing than Schmitt more poetical than the perfect Schmitt prose, but the sound recording of Schmitt is unrivalled) ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpqpnd0-nV8&list=PLgDbwm0zQXxI9mj5mYaaEpwq83M1yue08 Forget the sound and listen the music out of any comparison... Szeryng sing and speak as God voice, not Schmitt, not even Ehnes , not even the almost godly Milstein (whose sound recordings and also playing by these three is one of the most spectacular i ever heard) ...
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I enjoyed "Astrid" as well as its British version, "Patience". Have you seen "Professor T." ? ? ? if not, I recommend the Belgian original. What about "The Bridge" ? The Bridge has been copied and redone in various languages but I still prefer the original (Bron/Broen) with Sofia Helin in the lead role. All of these shows feature "neurodivergent" protagonists. And now, back to our regularly scheduled discussion of Classical music. . . ;o) |
For Bach's Cello Suites I purchased a recording by Starker. I read that he plays without vibrato (although I probably wouldn't have noticed on my own). He has a strong determined voice, whereas Yo-Yo Ma seems more fluid. I have streamed Alisa Wielerstein but still have not heard enough to have an opinion. |
I have seen all the versions of The Bridge and also like the Swedish one best. (Or is it Danish?) I have also watched Patience and like it. I have not idea where they found such a pretty, telegenic woman on the spectrum to play Patience, but it works.I will try Professor T. I just paid for the PBS lecture series and listened to a bunch on quantum physics. I got to about episode 10 and it was too much work to watch anymore, but I think I got the gist. I am now reading a book about consciousness and I am glad I just learned about quantum physics because I'd got lost without that knowledge. |
One old version of Starker and Fournier are my two ultimate cello Bach... Here Starker is magnificent like Milstein for the violin... But i link Fournier with Szeryng then it is my best one ever , there is a pulse behind Fournier almost like the one with Szeryng......
By the way for the violin concertos i will die with one version only, i did not even kept any other version since 50 years , for the same reason behind my other choices, musical time born from inside the playing not imposed from outside on the playing... it is not the best orchestral version but i dont mind...Grumiaux sing and speak ... His sonatas and partitas were surpassed by others but not his concertos for violins playing ...Just thinking about it made me feel wings ...it is incredible...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEMfHTs1X8o&list=RDZEMfHTs1X8o&start_radio=1
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Thanks i never listen Suzuki ... I will correct that ...
Wow it is on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEHXTrJb3HQ&list=RDzEHXTrJb3HQ&start_radio=1 He did not play a modern cello but an old one, his colors mastery are astonishing... Something we must buy ... It feel like Helen Schmitt sound recording quality and articulation... Amazing and i dont have all the pieces yet ...
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My sense was that "Astrid" played up the "strangeness" of the protagonist, presenting her as some sort of exotic or "alien" creature. It struck me as quite stylized (or perhaps, simply "quite French"?) in this regard. I actually preferred what seemed to me a more "human/humane" portrayal in "Patience", despite the fact that I typically prefer original series to "knock-offs". Of course, not being knowledgeable re: the spectrum, I can't reliably judge which might be more true-to-life or even if it's a case of either/or. They might be equally valid/invalid, for all I know. I simply related more to Patience. Reading about consciousness can be fascinating. Personally, I find connecting with it directly more rewarding. |
I think the French version was more quirky and stylized and... French. Although I am a fan of French cinema and have been since the early sixties when I saw "Jules et Jim." I am also a great Truffaut fan. I like the American version and am proud that we finally didn't screw up a foreign offering. My interest in consciousness actually overlaps with my interest in music. I want to know if people believe that the universe is conscious. If so, music very possibly preceded us. Or another way of putting it is that we exist to make music. Kind of airy-fairy stuff, but I'm interested for what I'm writing. I couldn't find Suzuki playing J.S. Bach's cello suites on Qobuz, but I did find him playing C.P.E. Bach's cello concertos. I enjoyed them, but was not really able to hear his style. There are very few of his recordings on Qobuz. Here's a poem about Truffaut: In Memory of Francois Truffaut
It doesn't have to be a big film with a lot of words an innocent obsession often goes unexpressed
It's enough if just once an evening with soft-spoken reverence he slips the knife between our eyes
& opens them to some unseen beauty dragged in off the street through the night:
The face of an abandoned boy lit by a movie marquee cocked in discovery on the brink of crime
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I’m pretty sure Patience is a British production. Thanks for the poem. I like the ending because I’m uncertain whether the kid outside the theater is in the movie or not. One view of the universe is that it’s all a big drama ("Lila", in Hinduism) and each of us is an actor playing a part. The tricky thing is, we forget we are actors and take it seriously, as though it were real. It’s just one of many stories people have invented in an effort to explain the paradoxical nature of life. Not one I’ve warmed to, personally.
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You're right. Patience is British. We don't tend to redo British programs so much, although "The Office" was one place where we did do a good job. There was a British show called "Coupling" which we totally botched. I read a review that said the British are masters of milking embarassing moments, and we didn't have that knack. The poem was about "The 400 Blows" which was an autobiographical film that put Truffaut on the map. So the ending was both from the film and real life. But I loved the idea of a young troubled kid coming alive because he was about to go against all the adult rules with total conviction. In the film he tears down a movie poster in front of a theater. I was very upset when Truffaut died so young. At 52 I think. One of his best films which most people have never heard of is called "The Woman Next Door" with Fanny Ardent (his lover) and Depardeau. Such an interesting movie. I see all religions and "transcendental" thought as metaphors to express humanity's dichotomy. That's why I am interested in religion at different historical periods. Religious beliefs express the zeitgeist of humanity at a particular historical period. Although I know Augustin is a highly regarded (Christian) philosopher, I think that he came up with one of the worst and most destructive philosophical ideas: original sin. To think that infants are born with sin is just not right. I am listening to K.D. Lang's Hymns of the 49th parallel. It |
If reincarnation exist, and the facts goes on this direction, "original sin" is only the original inhability to goes to higher existence level because we had freely chose the worst choice and we must freely choose the right direction toward the Source instead of going with our "ego" . "ego" is evidence of the original sin but evidence of our freedom and co-creative power... Augustine is not totally wrong ... |
The reincarnation argument does not seem to me to have any more proof now than it ever did. I know my Buddhist friends believe in it. Perhaps in physics the infinite universe theory might approach reincarnation, but as far as I'm concerned that theory is only a theory. I think physics is from the male mind and therefore is happy to come up with a multiverse theory rather than acknowledge a creative force which is too suggestive of "God." I'd like to propose a "Multi-God" theory. It's all just thought experiments anyway. Even if you are Saint Augustin. Although, I'm hungry and I'd take his pear right out of his hand if he were standing in front of me, original sin be damned. Now, back to music. I have been thinking about your creative time suggestion, in which musical time comes from the performer. I am especially struck with that as Qobuz gives me so many choices for Bach's Cello Suites that I can't go through them all. I am now very happily listening to Fournier. Before him I was listening to Alisa Weilerstein. What I am thinking is that there seem to be three categories of musical performance. Number one, which I think you like best, is soul wrenching, in which the artist finds his/her musical timing. Number two is for the performer to get the hell out of the way and let the composer shine through. Number three is to try to create beauty, which I'm not sure you acknowledge or at least like in a musical piece. Let us say that Alisa Weilerstein is in the beauty category. Fournier in the get the hell out of the way category. And Starker in the soul-wrenching category. I may have mis-categorized these artists, but I think I might have the categories correct. Are you listening? |
You get me right here :
Your three categories makes no sense for me.
This is the first and last necessary category. Why ? Because all music experience is birth by the artists complex set of gesture and breath creating inside our physical measurable quantitative linear time a non linear qualitative non measurable time which is not a duration, nor just a rythm, but a non repeatable improvised spontaneous gesture which become incarnated meaning with his own time dimension as a pure quality with no object.
This made no sense because most music on earth is not even "written"... And the musician need his body and his "I" (not just his robotic ego ) and more to summon inside him all the gestures necessary to incarnate spirit... If someone play Liszt piano or Scriabin he need to invest himself totally...He cannot play letting his personality at the door, he must manifest his personality... It is true in jazz and in all music generally... But for sure Sun RA is not Hildegard of Bingen and neither is a talking Nigerian drum all is a question of balance between our ego and the music to manifest... And anyway composers are badly served played by people lacking character ...
This is preposterous sorry. Where did i gave the impression to dismiss "beauty" as the main essence of music ? Your third category is superfluous because music is beauty in time ....
Read books out of your feminine/masculine window. Reincarnation is almost proven fact by scientific inquiries and testimonies. And i am sorry but no physicist in the world will takes your "feminine physics" seriously.
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I do not believe in reincarnation so much as regard it as more likely true than not. While I came across the concept in my teens, it was the process of experiencing/witnessing my own mind/psyche -- in particular, the degree to which certain patterns are ingrained and resistant to modification -- that nurtured doubt that such rootedness could come about over the short course of a single life-time.
I wonder just how "free" we are once we are here on this plane, in these bodies. Yogananda himself questioned why our memories are wiped clean each time we are reborn (for most -- no doubt, there are exceptions). This would appear to render us more susceptible to the illusory nature of Maya from the start, less able to discern real from illusory and thus, less "free" to make wise choices. If one accepts the concept of the Divine Play, then one might conclude that if the actors are denied awareness they are actors, it will make for more "drama". |
Reincarnation is an expression of freedom. We choose our life experiences. We had no memory because we can create and improvise and integrate our experiences, which otherwise with the weight of all our past lifes could makes it impossible for most...
If you want to read about reincarnation scientifically : Read Ian Stevenson book... If you want to go beyond, read Edgar Cayce and Rudolf Steiner books... If you want to read an incredible reincarnation story , inexplanable without reincarnation, read "the search of Omm Sety" by Jonathan Cott ... This book is totally incredible and true ... Dorothy Eady or OMM Sety is considered the goddess of Egyptology... One of the most passionate read i had last year...
If you are too busy you can listen this one hour radio given facts : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UajoDJosTYQ&list=PLDWCoiCR-ELl_5q7QPotDmDezHgww7h6t&index=12
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If there is reincarnation, it would make no difference in how I live my life. So it's not an avenue that I feel urgent to explore. I have had people accurately predict very specific events in my future, but I decided that pursuing that avenue was not something that would help me or change my life. Back to music. What did you think about my cateforization of performers: get out of the composer's way, seek beauty, have a free tempo for soul wrenching music? |
When i was young. I read the Bible at 10 because there was no other book. I read the Egyptian and Tibetan book of dead many years later. But the books that changed my life was not an orthodox book from any religion. At 20 i read "talking with angels" translated by Gitta Mallasz this book has nothing to do with reincarnation but throw me with another book " The freedom of doubt" by Alexis-Preyre, a book so extraordinary that i begun to understand what is spiritual experience... https://www.amazon.co.uk/freedom-doubt-Reflections-natural-sceptic/dp/B0007EYO38 I become convinced by reincarnations by reading many books by many writers... Too many to count... The main spiritual writers i read about reincarnation were Edgar Cayce and Rudolf Steiner ( i read 200 books from Steiner )
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I walk 3 hours a day listening music for half the part... You cannot listen Liszt or Scriabin or Beethoven walking ...Not Jazz either... But Gregorian song or Indian devotional music you can... They goes well with walking and meditating .. This series "Bhaktimala" with very powerful Indian singers 6 cd is stupendous for walks ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvfiGTu0qOg&list=RDmvfiGTu0qOg&start_radio=1
Any Gregorian song will do save the Old Gregorian of Iegor Reznikov, it is impossible to listen to this walking. Iegor is a mathematician who begun singing and rediscover old Gregorian before the Gregorian reform All his albums now impossible to buy are miracles of "harmonic singing " well recorded : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EatHHyXiqBk&list=RDEatHHyXiqBk&start_radio=1 |
"Music is light and joy coming with the syllable" Iegor Reznikov speaking about old Christian monastery singing before Gregory reform as a yoga... Reznikov is a genius who rediscovered "harmonic singing " in the Christian tradition : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o56fnmcSajA&list=PLNcZrq8jR6EvXxiy0qz0HWRhBRy3omWKm |
I want to promote Roberta Flack. I think she is underappreciated because her singing did not fall into any genre. Like Aretha Franklin, she learned to sing in church and has a beautiful gospel voice. For me, she has the most full and expressive voice of all of the female vocalists of her generation, white or black. Here is a sample of her singing "Bridge Over Troubled Waters." Think about how she has taken this very popular song and made it her own. |
I like Roberta Flack for sure...I love Joan Baez though and Billie Holiday more ...
What about one of the true greatest American singer beside Leontyne Price or Jessie Norman or Billie Holiday or Ella Fitzgerald ? What about Marian Anderson ? Why is she over any other Western female singer i know in my opinion but i am not alone thinking this for sure ? Simple, she is the only one able to sing spirituals, Bach, Verdi or Shubert at a level of heart moving power equal in all genre with a natural so evident, Toscanini, the master of all singers, said "there is one voice like this by century" ... Sibelius encountering her after a recital was in awe... Listen to verify two Bach song first and two spirituals and Schubert Ave maria :
Two Bach https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuzYE3E0Nfk&list=RDEuzYE3E0Nfk&start_radio=1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E7zjNiz2ZI&list=RD_E7zjNiz2ZI&start_radio=1
Two spirituals :
Deep river: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bytFrsL4_4&list=RD2bytFrsL4_4&start_radio=1 Crucifixion ( the only song by a singer strong and powerful as Billie Holiday "Strange fruit" not bad for a singer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9AcO0mFcFs&list=RDc9AcO0mFcFs&start_radio=1
Schubert Ave maria: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7K2hJBzTm0&list=RDv7K2hJBzTm0&start_radio=1 There is a version of this Ave Maria where Stokowski looked at her amazed when directing the orchestra... Who can sing this with so powerful faith and power ? None other.
Is it luck ? listen to this other Schubert song : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68wp3MC_9n0&list=RD68wp3MC_9n0&start_radio=1
In my opinion not only she is one of the greatest American singer but one of the greatest female singer on Earth beside a handful one... And none of these other one can sing spiritual music as her, but she can sing any lied as good if not better than most ... She sang popular music, hymns, spirituals better than most and rival any other famous opera voice... You guess it... I love her....
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Yes, I did see PBS American Masters about her. Roberta Flack and Marian Anderson are two different types of singers in my opinion. I think of Roberta Flack almost like a jazz singer. Marian Anderson is a different kind of singer in my mind. In regard to all the other singers you named, I did qualify my praise of Roberta Flack by saying she was the best singer "of her generation." What that means is that I will more often pull out her record than other singers of her generation, although I have been known to pull out Joan Baez's |
I remind you that i like Roberta Flack, i even kept an album of her with Hathaway...
A singer is a singer, i dont mind the genre of the culture , the singer communicate emotion from the lowest to the highest spirit level or not... I am not much in nostalgia about who represent a generation way different for different listeners... All artists represent an aspect known or not so well known of their generation... But few surpass their own generation their gesture being located over time in the Human eternal Nature ... Bach was forgotten as was past musical generation, Mendelsshonn make it more recognized and discovered anew as a master over any generation. The same is true in many genre and styles... Great singer add something way over their usual specialised chosen singing style... There is something in Billie Holiday that transcend jazz singing ... The same is true for Marian Anderson ... And some others singers in other cultures...
Each of us , i am 74, have our own choice for the singer who represent the best the generation born after the war and who was near 20 in 1965... For me being French speaking it is poets, as Dylan, Baez, Cohen, Leo Ferre, Jacques Douai.... For a musician of the guitar it may be Hendrix or any other rocker guitarist genius... Or any rock groups Beatles or Rolling Stones.... But i look also not to those who represent my generation for my own eyes and personal perspective but those who transcend their era... I wanted to be moved not just entering nostalgia... As i said i understand you, i like Roberta Flack... But there is other choices... As your thread title say, and i love it, we speak music independent of genres...I thank you for this thread idea ... I am interested by geniuses not so much by "genres" or by my own experience era ....And music is for me more than leisure listening only ...a passion for the spirit lets say ...
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I think you and I overlap on our ven diagrams sometimes, but not always. I like great geniuses, other times I pull out an album for a different reason. I don't at all think of where the music I want to listen to sits in the pantheon of music. Genius. Just regular guy or gal. I don't care. I just feel like hearing them at the moment. So I'm going to post, here on our little chat, an album I listen to oftern called "Rock Swings" by Paul Anka. I thought about posting it on the Jazz forum, but I didn't dare. Those guys can get snooty. What can I say about it? I have listened to it many times. I like it. Sue me. I am not a real "Jazz Aficianado." BTW, I have friends who look down their noses at me for listening to the Eagles. I like what I like when I like it. |
Since you are French speaking I'm posting a poem I translated from Baudelaire. I am not very fluent in French and it took me quite a while. But if you look up the French original, you will see all the work I did. I did not like the sing-song English translations I read with end-line rhymes, so I gave it internal rhymes. Basically, I wanted to sound like Baudelaire would sound in current English. I wanted to capture his music. STRANDS OF HAIR
Oh, loose strands of hair just touching your collar! Those curls! Perfume heavy with indifference! Ecstasy! Tonight I will wake each sleeping Memory from your hair, shaking them from Kerchiefs in the dark air of my haunted room.
Slumbering Asia, Africa ablaze, every distant Corner of this expiring world forgotten, Lives in the depths of these fragrant forests. Just as others' spirits float upon a song, Mine, oh my love! swims in your perfume!
I will go where trees and men flush with sap Swoon ever under the passion of the skies. Thick braids, your waves will carry me away! And bound by those ebony seas are dazzling Dreams of oarsmen, sails, flags and masts:
A boisterous port where my soul can drink Billowing wafts of perfume, sounds and color; Where vessels gliding on gold and moire Open their great arms to embrace the glory Of pure heaven trembling with eternal passion.
I will dive my love-drunk head where others Have been swallowed by the black sea; then My quick spirit, caressed by swells, will renew Itself in you again, oh bountiful indolence Forever swooning at the sweet smell of laziness.
Your hair, spread taut like a blue veil Will be my sky, so round and so immense. I am dizzy with the confusion of scents, The oil of coconut, musk and pitch Along the downy, twisting fringe of locks.
Always! My hand in your heavy hair, Forever sowing rubies, sapphire and pearl. My only desire is that you must never dull! Aren't you the oasis where I dream, the skin Where I take long sips of memory's wine?
Translated from La Chevelure by Charles Baudelaire |
Congratulations sincerely! Your translation stand by itself very well ... Even compared to some others in English... Baudelaire was my first poetry book at 13... I never ceased to be amazed by his classical verse in a very modern mind and rebellious soul... I listened times to times Leo Ferre whose Baudelaire album of songs is a total masterpiece musically and as interpretation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBqxa450tQU&list=RDhBqxa450tQU&start_radio=1
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Thank you. I wrote that poem so long ago, I could not do it now. Since I write prose, my poetry brain is rusty. And although my French was never good, I've pretty much lost the little I had. When I traveled around the world in 1968, I traveled with French people who could not speak English, so I had to use my high-school French. When I wrote that poem I was reading the biographies of Baudelaire and Rimbaud. I was also reading their poetry. Now my mind is into what I am writing in prose. I've lived many lives of the mind. Having said that, let me give you a quick answer on the spiritual front. My spirituality comes from my knowledge of science. I believe that the universe has a creative aspect that has been lost to modern science, but might be found in their exploration of dark matter and dark energy. In terms of the soul, I think the universe is the great consciousness and we are all flecks of that consciousness. When we die, we return to the great universal consciousness. I cannot believe any system that judges humans for their behavior. There have been too many moral codes, all of which judge us for breaking that code. If I follow one code, I break another. I think almost all of us know inherently what is constructive and positive and what is not. Each of us finds our own way back to the universal soul or consciousness. What is consciousness? I'm not sure. That's why I'm reading a philosophy book on the subject. |
«A new study reveals we don’t just hear sounds – we feel it in our cells. Researchers at Kyoto University have found evidence that audible sound waves can influence the behavior of individual cells, altering gene activity and even affecting how certain cells develop – without touching or chemically treating them» https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-025-07969-1
Music is way more than leisure pleasure... It is potential spiritual experience and cure tool... |
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