I am using lamm ML 1 , pre lamm LL2, transparence reference xl sp cable. My room is only 4mx3.8mx2.7m H,
The sound seem too metal, hard, and quickly attack. Bass is loosed control unless i use many ASC tube traps.
Kharma 3.2fe seem to very difficult to hook. Not beauty image.
Any one can help me to set up the kharma better?
Thank you very much! |
I always get a good laugh when people unequivocally state that something is the "best". Sound is subjective. Also, I love it when the Lamm ML2.1's get trashed because "there is no way that 18 watts is enough power to drive those speakers". You obviously haven't heard them. I've had them in my system for a year now. They are driving the much maligned W/P 7's very well. I've also heard them with Kharma 3.2's and Exquisite 1a's. I thought they also sounded wonderful, in a different way. I know that I am singling out a very few people. There are MANY good threads on this site, especially when "IMO" is added. |
new kharma amps are cheaper/better than lamms |
Thank you to all for your answers!
I will probably go with Lamm ML2 but...
But I can not forgeth what I read on Arturo Salvatore web page where he stated that CAT JL-3(JL2) are the best power amp in our planet with power of solid state and pure naturalnes,microdinamics,palpability and organic sound of the best SET tube amps!
Who can say something about how this two amps would compare in the same sistem( with Kharma 3.2 or W/P 7 )speakers?
Sasa |
Here's another high recommendation for the Lamm M1.2's to go with your Kharma 3.2's. (I am not sure you need the power of the 2.1/2.2). Definitely, the Lamms and Tenor (both 75 OTL and 150/300 Hybrids ) are the best two amps that I have listened to with the Kharmas. Currently, I have been thoroughly enjoying my Lamm M1.2 and Kharma Midi Grands. As much as I loved the Tenors, I avoided the Tenors due to earlier problems with the hybrids and their receivership. |
also tried Hovland...both the tubed and solid state...again no good .. |
I have the 2.3F...quite new actually...currently I am using my old amps, Linn Klimaxx Solo mono blocks...poer overkill perhaps but quite good. I have not tried enough amps with it so have only limited experience so far...did try pass labs, spectral and levinson all of which were not as good as the linns....now if I could only borrow a lamm from somewhere |
Just to throw a solid-state wrench into this discussion, my later-model Edge NL12 (with the bigger, current model NL-12.1's transformers) produces stunning clarity with my 3.2CRM-FEs (no sub) in classical music with no brightness and authoritative, friendly, detailed, integrated bass. The bass attaches itself to the instrument producing it, rather than being some amorphous blob somewhere in space.
The combo is revealing, though, on popular music, and brightness or close-miked vocals is will come through. But for the majority of recordings (& all classical), the 4th wall just drops away & things sound uncannily real, but with no "hi-fi" artifacts (tizziness, etch, boom, glare, etc.). |
Owl,
From my direct experiences, the only two amps that completely take command of the situation are the big VTL and ARC's.
I am not saying other amps wern't musical or have their own strengths.
The fact that the Lamm ML2 were prefered to them on the Maxx2 is very interesting.
I've also heard that at a NY show a few years ago Exquisite 1a's were driven by 2 pr of ML2's with impressive results.
Small price to pay for perfection! |
I don't own the Kharma,or Lamm equip.,but have heard them extensively.IMO,the Lamm 2.1 is a stunning match with the 3.2(my favorite Kharma,and one of my FAV speakers,regardless of price/low bass necessity/large room filling capability etc.)!I have heard this combo,as well as many other Kharma/amp combos,including their(Kharma's) "Dreck" solid state amps,as compared to the Lamm's,once you have experienced them!My pal actually gets superb sound from his Kharma 1.0's using a stunning Rowland 8t.Really good timbres,and INCREDIBLE bass.Much better(as per "natural sounding")than with the Kharma sub,IMO!Yet,to me,the Lamm 2.1 is SCARY GOOD.I simply cannot put my finger on it.It is NOT the tube vs solid state debate.It is something more "gestalt"!!
The little 3.2's,to me,are SO good,with the LAMM 2.1's that IMO(and this IS all, only, my opinion)the addition of the "heavily marketed" Kharma sub literally destroys the magic obtained with this stunning combo,of speaker/amp.I have nothing against the sub,and others love it(I own a sub,too),yet to me,if I had this combo(something the future may bring),I would NOT give a darn about any frequency losses,in the bass.They are THAT good!No,actually they can be MAGICAL!!
Best to all! |
Logenn,
Sounds like you're really enjoying my old amps, LOL! The Exquisites certainly are a far more difficult speaker to drive than the 3.2's but I can assure you the Lamm's don't lack for meeting close to the limits of the 3.2's dynamic capabilities. The power handling on the Kharma 3.2's is fairly limited anyways, I've been told 7 watts so it really can't use all that extra power regardless. The 75w OTL Tenors I owned did not do dynamics anywhere near to what the Lamms can on the 3.2's, as the Tenor amps would just give out completely on dynamic swings, losing all the low end, and collapsing utterly. I think simply looking at watts is misleading as the ML2's sound more subjectively powerful in real life than on paper compared to many far more powerfully rated amps I've had in my system. I think the secret is the output transformers but am certainly not sure of what aspect of Lamm's design contributes the most to this effect. In fact, if anyone at CES heard the Wilson Maxx2's with the ML2's they'd agree. It was sterile, mechanical, dry and dull with Lamms solid state amps until he switched to ML2's and according to many, including a TAS reviewer who was there, and reported recently in the magazine, really came alive with the big Wilsons- he preferred it to the big VTL and ARC amps. I couldn't believe how much the bass improved and became far more real in the room than I could ever imagine, with of course the beautiful midrange of the SET. Logenn, I'd make every effort to try and hear them on your 1D's if you can as I think you'd be surprised. If you lived closer, I'd drive them over to you ;^) They may not bring everything the big VTL's do to the party, but it sure would be interesting... |
Guys,
Finding the ideal amp for Kharmas is challenging.With my 1D/DE's, I currently am using the VTL 750's, which on paper seem like the wrong amp.
I owned Tenor W/I 75's and Air Tight ATM 3's modified and upgraded by Tom Tutay, both of which offer excellent performance, but the VTL's deliver an additional Octave of deep bass, a much darker background and a huge soundstage missing with the other amps. They may offer a slightly different mid range presentation, but the trade off is loss of dynamic range which is critical to the listening experience. With the 750's, I feel like I am in the hall listening to a live concert. With the others I am listening to a pair of speakers.
It would be hard to imagine the ML2's with 18 watts will deliver the whole package.
The VTL's support the old addage that there is no substitute for horsepower or in this case a huge power supply.
I am tempted to try the Lamm's but my other experiences make it seem improbable. |
Come on Owl, get some life out of that Kharma, will you?
http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?postID=1432
Rgs,
Me |
Sasa
As the saying goes, everyone has an opinion, but understand that everyone has a perspective and perhaps even an agenda. I'd be careful of this when asking opinions on this forum especially without listening firstly and secondly to have a good idea of who told you this and understand what this perspective and opinion is based on as well as the history behind it. If you like you can contact me directly to discuss this. |
Yes, I've heard the same, he uses the ML2's is my understanding. |
Owl, it is not important who told me that all I can say he is one of most respected members here on agon.
I read that ML2's 18Watt is enough for Kharma 3.2 like you said but there are other power amps which could be very musical,too.
I am from Europe so I will give room dimensions in
meters: 7,8m x 4,2m and 2,5m high. If I am precise my listening room is 4,8m x4,2m, because the 7,8m distance is brake by a narrow 8cm wall which is only 1,1m high and 2,4m long. Of course the sound waves can travel over this wall and the space is 7,8m x4,2m like I said first.
I hope the place is not to big or to small for Kharma 3.2.
Thanks.
Sasa |
Asonicyouth said: "kharma voices their speakers with Lamm gear..."
No kidding? |
I also own the 3.2's and have owned several amps with these speakers. The list includes Joule Electra Grand Marquis, Lamm ML1.1 and Lamm ML2. Ultimately, I have settled on the ML2's which easily drive the 3.2's in my 18x23 listening room.
For cabling I use Purist Dominus Rev. C which work very well. I also have auditioned the Kharma Enigma cable and it too is superb. |
*I heard that Lamm ML2 with own 18watts dont give enough dinamics in medium listening rooms.*
Who told you this? For the record, my room is 22x40 ft. approximately and I have not experienced this to be true for what I mostly listen to at the volume levels I feel are sane. I think you would be surprised what they can do re dynamics with the Kharmas. What size is your room and what kind of music do you listen to? |
Thank you for response.
It is tough decision!
I heard that Lamm ML2 with own 18watts dont give enough dinamics in medium listening rooms.
fmpnd: you spoke about lamm hibryd apm with 110w in class A?
I can only say what I heard. Tenor was for me pure music, natural,transparent,clear with super dinamics,speed,timbre and so on. And it was enough power when needed!
You dont mentioned cables. I like Transparent Refernce MM very much with W/P 6,7 but with Kharma 3.2 F Enigma, who knows??
Any reccomenations?
Sasa |
I know we all have our own tastes and preferences but I must join the others in saying that the Kharma/Lamm combination is a match made in heaven. I HAVE owned the Tenor 75s and I STILL own the Tenor 300HP Hybrids. They are both wonderful amps. BUT, the REAL music comes from my Lamm 1.2 Refs. I owned the Lamm 1.1s for many years but I preferred the Tenors on my former Midi-Grands. On my Exquisites, the Lamm 1.2s outclassed everything. BUT, these aren't the kind of amps that you will necessarily flip over right from the get go. However, the more you listen to them the more you not only appreciate what they DO, but what they DON'T do as well. One of the things they DON'T do is exaggerate or hype up the sound while still offering incredible resolution in an effortless and natural way. They also don't cause any listener fatigue after hours of listening. |
I have the 3.2's with the Kharma Sub. I am currently driving them with the Lamm M1.2 hybrids, which were a replacement for the JL2. The CAT was a wonderful match with the 3.2's. But after a problem with the amp, and a poor response from CAT, I went out to GTT and listened to the Lamms. I can tell you that the Lamms do everything the CAT did with the addition of better control of the bass. The CAT does excel in this area, but it is a tube amp, and it just can't compete with the 1.2's. The highs are extended, and free of grain, and the midrange is just as smoothe. Asonicyouth is right in that Kharma does voice it's speakers with Lamm's. The synergy is obviously outstanding. |
Ny friend had a pair of 3.2's. On my recommendation he bought a McIntosh 275 to drive them. Excellent synergy between these pieces.
Be prepared to get a sub, those 3.2's don't go low at all.
Best,
Paul :-) |
kharma voices their speakers with Lamm gear, i have never heard the combo but i would assume it is a match made in heaven. a friend told me that his experience listening to the 3.2 CRM with LAMM ML2s was the most incredible listening experience of his life. |
