@smodtactical
I have been very happy with Accuphase E-650, got me off the merry go round :-) |
It’s been a while since I looked at this post, but I can see where you were confused - I never used a separate amp (emotiva or otherwise) because the amps are built into my speakers (class D solid state) and they were the one constant through the entire setup, so any sound difference is due to the preamp change or the DAC change. If I were smarter, I’d have changed only one thing at a time and would know which it was that was holding back the bass, but I planned poorly. |
I still believe that if the OP had a McIntosh amp to use with his McIntosh preamp, he would have had much better bass response. I believe the problem was having an amp (Emotiva) that is not up to the quality of the Mac or ARC. I really haven’t heard complaints about the quality of McIntosh bass, treble extension yes, but never bass. |
@avlee, Thanx for the review. I think you have voiced the majority opinion of ARC vs McIntosh. It is interesting that you landed on ARC in spite of being entirely digital in term of sources and amplifiers. I never completed a theater system. It just did not seem to be necessary. The most important element for theater is adequate bass response. The rear speakers do not add that much and working them into my current system would be a PITA. |
@lalitk its cool to say something is overrated but then not to give the alternate option that is a better performer is non sensical. |
lalitk what do u own know after having both of those? |
Thank you. Much appreciated!! |
@topfinadv,
I have owned both C1100 and Ref6 in the past and frankly for $8K you can get a much better preamp. IMHO, both of these preamps are overrated (no offense).
I suggest you start a new thread and ask for recommendation under $8K. |
I wanted to try something different. After 12 months of trying something different, I think I’d rather have stuck with what I had. It happens. |
so im confused. If u really would like the ref 6 why did u trade for the c1100? |
I currently have a Krell 2 channel amp that would be used with them. |
So, I actually changed to a c1100 recently - swapped my Ref 6 with another guy last year. I also switched out the XMC-1’s DAC with a DAC2X I found at a good price (and then swapped that out for an XDS1). The C1100 is a very nice looking system. Audio quality is right on par with the Ref 6, didn’t notice any difference. I like the expandability and the tubes are easier to replace. The “free” headphone amp is also nice.
Either is a good pick, in my opinion. Personally, I think I’d rather have a ref 6, because as far as single box systems go, it’s the best I’ve used. I’d say, get whichever one you can get cheaper. Or easier. |
I have a C2500 preamp and MC302 amp and the bass in my system is truly astounding. I think it is more like which preamp is a better match with your system. In this case it’s the ARC. Enjoy it. In my case, I couldn’t live without all the features of the C2500. |
I am down to the c1100 and the Ref 6. Both pre-owned around the same dollar amount $8000. Any thoughts. |
And the C52. I know it’s solid state, but sound is sound. Who cares how you get there? |
If anyone has a C1100 in the DC area, and wants to do an A-B comparison, let me know. I'll make my setup available. |
How about C1100 versus Ref6 (same basic price point), who has made this comparison? thanks
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Aren’t they all solid state? |
Did you consider Accuphase?
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@avlee,
I can relate to your experience with Ref6. I switched from C2500 / MC601’s to ARC LS28 / VT-80 and couldn’t be any happier.
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After almost two weeks of listening, I've got a little bit of a followup:
1) I don't know why the bass in my music is better. Is it due to the ref 6 or the use of the DAC on the XMC-1? With the C2600, I was using the built in DAC, and maybe its equalizer isn't as capable as the XMC-1? I wish I had tested A-B. That being said, I really, really like how everything currently sounds. The music that needs a punch (Tchaikovsky, Dvorak) gets what it needs. The stuff that doesn't (Mozart, Chopin) is crystal clear. Super happy.
2) I ended up setting up my home theater bypass/processor through the SE connections on the XMC-1 and Ref 6 for TV/movies. For everything else (stereo music), I send it through the balanced connections (which on the XMC-1 are actually fully balanced). Now I can use the XMC-1 as my DAC for all devices, including my new M50.2 server/streamer.
3) Audio research never got back to me on the mute thing, but I figured it out anyways. On the Logitech harmony application, make sure you tell the system to keep the Ref 6 on while switching between activities, and then on the power on commands, add mute.
4) I rarely need to turn the volume past 25 on the ref6. The only source which needs higher volume is my M50.2, but it's also the only source going to my DAC via Toslink. I'm going to switch it to a different input that might have a higher dB. In any case, this allowed me to set the speaker amps to a lower setting and get really quiet backgrounds on all of my music.
So, I can definitely say that while the McIntosh preamps are more convenient, the Ref 6 sound quality was worth the upgrade for me. If you do as I did and get a system used, you can save yourself a nice chunk of change.
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Sorry, to be clear, my speakers have built in amps. I have the Beolab 5's from Bang and Olufsen, and I plug my Ref 6 directly into them. I don't use any Emotiva amps.
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The xmc-1 is their surround processor/preamp. I use it for 4 channel audio (no center or sub, I don’t need those). I wanted to also use it as a DAC, since you would have a tough time matching it in the price/performance range, but that would mean giving up surround sound.
I might do that anyways, since surround speakers and toddlers don’t mix. Then I would feed my Ref 6 balanced input from the XMC-1. For now, I’ll keep my configuration as is. |
I am a little curious as to why you are using Emotiva amps with either the McIntosh or ARC? It seems the Emotiva is way out of their price range. I had an Emotiva dac at one time and while it was ok, it wasn't in the league of McIntosh or ARC. Has Emotiva advanced that much? |
Yes, I have the MR88 tuner, which I really like, and the preamps were nice but I can see now, not quite what I wanted. I will admit that my speaker choice cut down my preamp choices, since they aren’t rated for more than 4V RMS (class D amps built in). The VAC Renaissance looked really good, but supposedly puts out 30VRMS from their SE connectors! |
This is what i have been saying for a long time....Not all McIntosh products are created equal. First off, as far as I'm concerned McIntosh labs builds amplifiers first, everything else is secondary except for a couple of tuners and a a few pre amps over the last few decades (mac people know which ones) I would steer clear. Full blown HT setups excluded of course. (helicopters and explosions are easy...music is not). Does it take a Uber expensive ARC to realize this? The answer is an "absolutely not". This is the real magic of this hobby (stereo Hi-Fi). If you can buy a ARC REF and achieve your sonic goals, that is a great thing as well.
Matt M
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