Just about to pull the trigger on Pontus 15th ...

@mattw73  According to Wave Theory, the new Denafrips 15th leans toward the bright side of neutral, in contrast to the warmer sound signature of the original Pontus or Pontus II. The treble resolution is enhanced, but it lacks the rich mids and powerful low-end slam of the Schiit BF II.  When streaming high-resolution OS files, its sound quality might be on par with the Laiv DAC. However, when the Laiv DAC streams high-resolution OS files, the gap becomes more apparent.  In short, system pairing—including the amplifier and/or preamp—is critical. If your system is already bright, the Denafrips 15th might not be the best fit.

@lanx0003 I think I saw that review...headphone guy? 

My experiences have no issues or noticed any brightness. First few days some dullness & maybe some hardness on top but never bright or fatiguing. With my Bel Canto pre & Hypex Nilai amp I feel like I can get a feel for whatever the source or dac has to offer. There is no added thickness to the notes from the 15th..which maybe someone might construe as "lean" but I think it's just relaying what the streamer/source is giving it. 

I played around with it quite a bit this weekend. It might not have the most punchy slam but the bass is accurate. It's tight, detailed, & nuanced. It's kind of weird, it doesn't sound like it's super deep or expressive but I can hear/feel it in the walls behind the couch..different from my prior dac. The 15th also puts the vocalists in it's natural position where my other dac put it a little out front of the speakers no matter the track. 

Using my Ultravalve or SET amp I do get more "meat on the bones" & some extended spatial cues. Maybe a hint more than my sabre dac. I certainly don't feel like it's pulling out any more information or more resolving than a sabre dac. But I can detect the slight smoothness or lack of hardness on the top end in comparison. That is probably the biggest difference. But then I feel you are losing some of the clean edges of the notes in space & perception. There is more depth to the soundstage but without those etched lines separating everything. There is separation..but not as pinpoint focused. 

My wife & daughter went prom dress shopping this weekend. A buddy of mine that owns the regular pontus  came over for the day & brought his Sopra N1 bookshelves. He does feel that there is a level of clarity to the 15th that the original doesn't have. Neither of us mentioned anything of brightness with the 15th & the  Focal's..though his tweeters have more extension & sparkle than my Scan-Speaks. His also produce some serious bass & were too close to the front wall on my set up. He was very impressed with the vocals on my Fritz & was amazed with the Class D Nilai amp..I let him take it home. He thinks if I give the 15th more time it will shift into better focus. He said after a couple weeks his original Pontus just fell into place. He says I'm over critical & if I want better I'm going to have to spend more & to get some bass treatment behind the speakers. 

So yeah, I'm probably a bit over critical..but I already know that when I bring something new or different into the house. The 15th is a good dac..but when these "reviewers" build it up like it's the best thing in its price class I'm going to be honest with myself if I feel it doesn't do all things better than something cheaper. But I have to remember that everything in audio equipment is usually a compromise. A mixture of something great & something ok. There is definitely not that hint of glare or hardness with the R2R that I've experienced with chip dacs. That alone should be worth the price of admission..but I can't help picking something apart when I'm evaluating. But once I decide on something I have the ability to enjoy it for what it's worth. At the end of the day I  love music. I can appreciate a pair of cheap earbuds when I just want to hear some tunes. 

@mattw73 It might not have the most punchy slam but the bass is accurate. It’s tight, detailed, & nuanced. It’s kind of weird, it doesn’t sound like it’s super deep or expressive but I can hear/feel it in the walls behind the couch..different from my prior dac. The 15th also puts the vocalists in it’s natural position where my other dac put it a little out front of the speakers no matter the track. 

Using my Ultravalve or SET amp I do get more "meat on the bones" & some extended spatial cues. Maybe a hint more than my sabre dac. I certainly don’t feel like it’s pulling out any more information or more resolving than a sabre dac. But I can detect the slight smoothness or lack of hardness on the top end in comparison. That is probably the biggest difference. But then I feel you are losing some of the clean edges of the notes in space & perception. There is more depth to the soundstage but without those etched lines separating everything. There is separation..but not as pinpoint focused.

Thank you for pointing out those details; in particular, the depth of soundstage I’m craving from an upgraded DAC—separation, cleanly outlined edges, pinpoint focus, and articulated bass, etc. Which Sabre DAC were you comparing it to?

I don’t think you’re being overly critical. I believe $2-3K is the price point where diminishing returns set in for a DAC. I compared the Gustard R26, a highly praised R2R DAC, with a lower-priced Sabre DAC from SMSL in a fairly extensive audition after a 150-hour break-in period for the R26. On my humble system, I couldn’t meaningfully detect a sonic difference between them. However, I did notice differences among the seven DACs I’ve tested so far, which ranged in price from $200 to $500.

For now, I’ll probably put the idea of purchasing the 15th on hold. I’m afraid the sonic performance you described might be the ceiling for all R2R DACs in the $1,500–$2,000 range.

Hey friends,

Sorry for the currency confusion. The price on Vinshine Audio website is in Singapore dollars. If you'd like to purchase the LAiV uDAC with LPS bundle in US dollars, it's available via our sister company Beatechnik: link here.

The LAiV Audio uDAC isn’t just another DAC—it’s a high-end one packed into a small, compact size. It’s pretty impressive. The sound quality is really close to the bigger Harmony DAC, but it costs just a third of the price. To put it simply, the Harmony DAC can compete with way more expensive models—so we knew the uDAC would be a big hit.

If you’re looking for a DAC around this price—or even higher—I’d definitely go for the uDAC. It’s just that good.

Happy listening! 

Alvin Chee

Founder of Vinshine Audio & Beatechnik

@lanx0003 I was using the sabre model of the RME ADI-2 FS. I have no experience of a modern R2R dac. I have used a SMSL in the past & thought it was great..the SU-10. Comparable to the RME, probably a little more expansive soundstage. I ended up going with the RME because of it's PEQ function. I went with the 15th for the main reasons of trying to find a deeper soundstage & lessen the slight digital glare/hardness from some female vocal tracks. 

The Pontus does improve upon those 2 things. I chatted with a gentleman last night about the 15th. He said he received his about 2 weeks before I did. He seems quite certain that because we were waiting awhile for our units that they were shipped without the normal 200 hours break in. He said he had not had any reason to believe electrical components needed that type of break in from past experience but that his unit improved dramatically over the 3 weeks of using it & not turning it off for a couple weeks.  Told me to be patient..he was not impressed right out of the box & shared some subjective thoughts about it that aligned with mine..though I had not gone into detail about my impressions other than I wasn't impressed with it & that it lacked some focus. 

I will report that using the RCA input on the 15th last weekend I felt it was on par with the USB input. We fiddled with the RCA outputs & were able to get any RCA cable firmly pushed all the way in. That was a relief. 

That Harmony mini dac could be the good value unit. Alvin seems to be standing behind it. I'm at least convinced that R2R can expand the stage in a different way & reduce that digital hardness/glare. If the mini can accomplish that & keep the clarity & detail it's probably a solid winner for the price. I'd like to try one to at least get a better idea of what these R2R's are about. I'd like to have some experience with a few different models to get a good feel for them & if they really differ from good chip dacs.