Goatboy- I am having a hard time understanding the difference between your take on B. Dylan "the main appeal of Bob Dylan is what he has to say" and J. Baez "popularity (past and present) stems moreso from her political messages communicated through her music than the actual music itself."
BTW, you and the other youngsters in the bunch may be interested to know that as far as I remember (great quote about remembering the 60s) Joan and Bob were lovers several lives ago. |
Swampster -
The point that I was trying to make, perhaps ineffectively, was that even though Bob Dylan can't sing, he can't sing in a manner that doesn't bug me. In other words, it works for him. From what I've heard of Joan Baez so far, it doesn't work for her, as her voice is unlistenable.
Only my opinion of course, always subject to changing. Feel free to disagree with it. |
swampthing,
I believe you're right on the Baez - Dylan thing. Joan discussed it briefly in the PBS special on Dylan. Sounds like she's still scratching her head wondering what happened.
Goat...some folks like rap & electro-synthpop hiptronica & I can't for the life of me imagine why..to each their own. |
Swamp and Fish, in case you hadn't heard, Joanie is Lesbianese, and her relationship with Dylan, and marriage to Harris (I forget his first name just now) were, as far as anyone knows, platonic.
And for those of you who have apparently never listened to enough Dylan to actually hear him sing, I suggest Lay Lady Lay, or all of Blood on the Tracks and Slow Train Comin, just to name two albums. Perhaps, you have also not realized the man is not a songwriter, but a poet who sings (remember Leonard Cohen?) -- which is why only the bravest souls have tried to cover any of his material, usually with little success.
Bob Dylan has the most on-the-nose timing and delivery of any blues singer ever, from Muddy Waters on down, as any musician will tell you. Not only that, but he has perfect pitch and the most accomplished guitar technique of anyone according to none other than Johnny Cash (read Johnny's liner notes on the back of the Nashville Skyline album.)
Really you guys!! |
Goatwuss- I guess you could say the same thing about Neil Young (can't really sing in conventional terms, but great songs and effective emotional communication). I for one like Baez' and Dylan's singing, but then I am one of those 60s headcases. Crystaline purity always does it for me. If she sounds thin, maybe its your gear ;~). And don't judge her by the present, she is not probably (gasp) 60+ and has had problems with her voice over the years. Her new Cd of duets with newer female singers is excellent, IMO. Obviously, YMMV. |
Swampwalker - Yeah, for sure the game goes for Neil Young. I like him, but if someone told me they found his voice unlistenable I'd understand why.
And no, it's not my gear ( :
My issue with her is not "thin-ness," it's that vibrato. |
Sorry, Goat-boy, I guess it was someone else who said thin and hard. Two qualities I would NEVER assign to Joan Baez. |
I have almost every album that Joan Baez has made and had the privilege of seeing/hearing her in concert many years ago. I think her voice is wonderful and have great admiration for her courage and convictions "back in the day." I grew up in the 50s and 60s, during the folk revival. I like Bob Dylan's voice too. One of my favorite albums by Joan Baez was the one where she did all Bob Dylan songs.
But, each to her or his own. No one should be forced to listen to music that makes them wince!
Holly |
Here's an interesting chronological biography about Joan |
Thank you for that link, Fatparrot. I had no idea that she was still so active in humanitarian causes - and it looks as if I am missing more albums than I realized, too!
Holly |
Amusing to hear Goatwuss take from the other side of 50. It makes me re-examine my early impressions of Joanie. When I hark back to memories of her singing 'Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands', or 'Ride Me High', I don't remember vibrato, and certainly not thinness (yes I know, Goatwuss, you didn't suggest thinness).
My impressions are all of warm rich tones; a revelation in their day. Remember, we were just coming off The Weavers' bouncy, earnest, dustbowl version of folksong, with female vocals tuned like a bagpipe, all nasal Anglo-Celtic skirl. I'll have to go dig out Baez Sings Dylan - was the vibrato really there all along?
I suspect, as J.D. offers, that you had to be there.
Nowadays; over-sharing, over-warbling... |
I like her, no I don't like her, whats the point? Yes she made her debut during a time of political upheaval & the music held a great deal of meaning to a generation that time has past by. Now Joan will be judged on her merits as an artist, good bad or otherwise by a new generation. Deal with it. Personally the current state of the union sucks, job insecurity, high gas prices, & mistrust of of elected officials, maybe once again these old artists will give give meaning to an uncertain world, who knows. |
>>Personally the current state of the union sucks........<<
Yeah you really have to hate this low inflation, great housing market, low mortgage rates, good stock market, and low consumer prices. Yup, it sucks or maybe you were thinking of France? |
Wc65Mustang, exactly, I've been trying to save enough money to leave France but given the poor economy & lack of gainful employment it has been tough. Can't wait to return to the USA where inflation is low & jobs are plentiful. Good deal. |
>>Yeah you really have to hate this low inflation, great housing market, low mortgage rates, good stock market, and low consumer prices. Yup, it sucks or maybe you were thinking of France?<<
Maybe inlation has been low for a record amount of time, and yeah more people own houses then ever in the history of America, and yes mortgage rates have continued at record lows, the stock market keeps rising and not because of some dot com ponzi scheme like in the '90s, and yes consumer prices have taken a record drop. But, the state of the union still sucks compared to France, Germany, Italy, etc. We only have 5% unemployment, which is essentially full employment which means we all go to work. That sucks, at least in France they get to b**ch about the world while sipping coffee and waiting for the government to take care of all their needs. And in Italy young men are smart enough to stay home and let their mommies take care of them. And Germany, well so what if their economy is near collapse, just don't screw with the summer vacation. At least we have Air America to keep us informed about no matter how much everything is going well it really isn't. |
Wc65mustang, it's not just France, it's the entire E.U.! "Bush Bashers" [regarding economic issues] should compare GDP, CPI, unemployment, worker productivity, projected economic growth, and taxes of the American and the E.U. economies. I'm a registered Republican, but I do not agree with many of the President's policies. But try to form opinions from facts not tainted by rabid emotions and political posturing. Far too often, BOTH parties engage in Machiavellian tactics! |
>>At least we have Air America to keep us informed about no matter how much everything is going well it really isn't.<<
You bet and all 10 listeners depend on them for the truth. |
I agree with you. That vibrato is horrible. Ludicrous. Inexplicable.
I guess it was
I'm a violist, so I know a thing or two about vibrato. Her vibrato sounds like she's using one of those old-time "weight loss" belts that were moved by an electric motor (Back in the forties or so; you'd see commercials for these contraptions with some model who had this rubber belt about six inches wide wrapped around her waist, and at each end it was attached to a motor. As the motor rotated, the belt would be pulled from one side and then the other. Sorry if you didn't need that explanation). Like she's in a car going down a VERY bumpy road.
I am offended by it! Which is totally irrational. I react as if she exaggerated that vibrato on purpose. As if, with all that protest music, she had included an extra ingredient. Now protest THIS! Joan and I will never reconcile on this; there's no way I can not hear that voice bouncing around.
Personally, I would have felt that anyone who responded to that complaint with, "You should listen to X or Y CD" had missed the mark. They're trying to be helpful but ignoring the complaint out of hand. They don't care about the excess vibrato; they just need to not let anyone not like an artist they have some personal preference for. Bless their little hearts!
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Bob, you're talking to people 16 years in the past, lol. But, welcome aboard!
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Baez elicits the very same reaction in me, goatwuss. Perhaps she was classically trained?
Rhiannon Giddens is a highly respected artist who started out singing opera but switched to Roots styles. To my ear, her singing sounds exceedingly stilted. Is it coincidental that she was heavily influenced by early folkies such as Baez and Pete Seeger? |
