I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Schiff’s performance is truly remarkable. I posted the Perahia recording because I own it and know the sonatas fairly well and because I have always loved Perahia’s playing. You wrote that you admire Schiff’s style. I do also and would be tempted to characterize what I hear as, not lacking, but devoid of “STYLE”. Not sure I can put what I mean into words. Incredibly dignified playing in every positive sense of the word. As much as I hate to say it, makes Perahia sound “young”:’ too much made of crescendos and makes obvious his phasing twists and turns. Schifff’s peaks after the crescendos don’t sound LOUD; as do Perahia’s.even though there is as much actual volume. Lovely playing.
Frogman you are very right about Jazz.... There is no best...Only our favorite for a specific musical jazz "idiom"...The more i learned about jazz the more my preference have evolved too...
It is also true about classical interpretations, here too our "best" is less an expression of "the" best there is than a reflection about ourself...
But when all that is said, in a written musical idiom like classical language , some creators emerge out of the crowd...
For me my favorite is Bach( the best 😁😊) and in a less evident way for the rest of the people, i favor Scriabin i put on par with all others geniuses i loved too ....
I was very moved when i learned that one of the greatest and purest interpreter of classical Indian music on the sarod, Ali Akbar Khan, own a Bach portrait and admire him dearly...
There is no best, save Bach, even Chopin thought so and he borrow a lot from Bach in his music.... 😁😊
I apologize for my Bach cult bordering on completely subjective preference, but i am not alone by far....
In jazz i have to many favorite now to enumerate them...
For example i like Bill Evans very dearly but what About the great Oscar Peterson and many others ?
I think i am able to love all jazz musicians for what they are: pure musician in a quest for their own freedom....
Jazz is not inferior to classical neither to Indian music neither to any musical style....
Jazz is spiritual freedom too....
It liberate me from my prejudices and ignorance about music....
Music cannot be superior to his musicians... This is a jazz lesson....
In a way Bach is not superior to Bill Evans...Why?
Because Evans will teach something to Bach himself....
Bach learned from all great composers of his time, he admired Vivaldi and Corelli or Buxtehude and copy them by hand with devotion....
He was humble, even if he know his own trade to the minute, like great mathematicians and craftsman are because they worked all day without rest...Like are jazzman like Sun Ra who played 7 /7 almost 24/24 all his life...I admire him too... But his albums collections is too vast to be listened to for me right now (100 albums officially).... 😁😊
Of course you did, was being a top musician not part of how you feel ?
Oh , going to Oprea , what I would fight for there is Bjorling and Victoria de los Angles in Butterfly . They moved me more than anything in music I ever heard!
Two Greats, Bjorling sang in perfection of her voice , impossible but he did it, He did it, sure effected in other parts of my life .
One of the rare occasions when I answered the wrong question. As always, my answer was correct, I just have to wait until the correct question is asked.
I will punish myself by reading 6 reviews on directional fuses.
**** On here I assume everyone says what they feel like…..
Of course. Completely agree with that, and as it should be. A great forum to express ideas and feelings about those ideas; even when there may be some qualification or disagreement.
**** ……Unless they are musicians. ****
Don’t follow the logic. What I wrote is exactly what I feel.
Rok, I think you missed the point. You may be arguing a point that has nothing to do with what I wrote. I could dispute your notion of “the great unwashed decide….” , but it is not relevant to my point. It is not about who is great, but rather, is it possible to deem one individual “the greatest”. It’s at best, a silly notion, if one is to honor all that Jazz is. Who are the great unwashed, anyway? Are you referring to the average guy walking down the street who considers himself a “music lover” and may even own a couple of Jazz CD’s? OK, ask him if he knows who John Coltrane was; never mind Sonny Stitt. Now, ask him who Kenny G is. Moreover, are you not, yourself, a “fan of certain genre(s)” (to quote your definition of “TGW”)?
Of course a player needs to stand the test of time to be considered one of the greats. Many players have stood the test of time and can rightfully be considered great. But, “THE GREATEST”? That question was the basis of what I wrote. And, why even consider the issue of “modern day players”? There has not been enough time passed to be able to consider whether they will pass the test of time. Obviously. We shall see (hear).
As the self appointed spokesman for that group that is the final arbiter of all things in the public domain, The Great Unwashed, let me say that time / staying power decides who is great and who ain't. Listened to Bach yesterday. The man has been dead for 272 years!! If that ain't great, what is?
Modern day players may be considered great among those with the knowledge to know greatness, among their peers, with fans of a certain genre, but the Great Unwashed have the final word.
Besides, The Frogman covered this in his First Law.
Some thoughts in the spirit of the thread. Where is our OP, btw?
We all have favorites. They are favorites for a variety of reasons; mostly subjective and not objective The playing style of a favorite resonates with our own aesthetic sense and it is important to remember that this preference often says just as much (maybe more) about oneself than it does about the artist; and, is not some indication that our favorite is the “best” based on any objective set of standards. Of course, the tricky part is that there are, in fact, some basic standards of excellence that have to be met to even consider an artist for being ONE of the best.
I have always disliked “best” designations. Jazz, probably more so than any other genre puts a premium on individuality and, as such, makes the notion of who was “the best” kind of pointless. I think that it can be safely said that if one must indulge in “best” designations that one unavoidable consideration is the question of whether the artist was one of the handful that truly changed the direction of the music in a significant way and made more than relatively minor contributions along the path of its evolution. I think we all know who those have been: Pops, Duke, Prez, Bird, Miles, Trane and a handful of others. So, what to do if one loves bebop, but doesn’t like hard bop and beyond; or, swing and what came before (as much?). Can the “best” bebopper be the best jazz player? I don’t think so.
Sonny Stitt was a fantastic bebopper; certainly one of the very best. Was he THE best? If so, what then does one do with Charlie Parker’s legacy? Parker was a genius bebopper and a game changer. Unless we are going to rewrite all that has been written about the history (evolution) of this music there is little question about this.
We are, and have been, in complete agreement. I would only add that what we are discussing is at the heart of the often mentioned quote: “There are only two kinds of music…..good music and the other kind”. This from one of the greatest Jazz musicians. Point is, Classical music (and all others) can “roll”.
After the master playing of my above post, here we have a clear explanation.... Fascinating...
I think the origin of humanity is humor victorious over fear in creation, the recreation of time in ceremony where music and speech reunited again recreating man itself and men together...
A remark about drums in general : So astounding and refined is Indian tabla drumming, and it is refined and deep in musical meaning and with metaphysical meaning, i was always flabbergasted how African traditional drummer evoke something way more deep in a sense in their "rolling speaking" way about our human origin more than about cosmology like in the Indian case...
There is at the end no personal taste so much who moves us toward music but more a thirst for learning experience at the end...
For sure when i distinguished musical time and physically measured time, i was also speaking of polarites like un the usual Extreme opposite concept of time polarities between Furt, and Celi...Bernstein being more in the middle and for me more Beethovenian in his Egmont than Celi for sure... But speaking about this polarity between Furt and Celi , I was speaking about classical interpreted written musical score...
This polarity between musical time and physical measured time is so important in jazz , i discovered it when i read about a black musician in Us , i forgot who, who was instructed by an African musician about the necessity for the music to "roll" ... He tested this african musician with pieces of european music, and often the African did say "it does not roll" even with some jazz sometimes..
Intrigued he decided to go to Africa...And the end of his story is that he finally understood what "rolling means"...
I interpreted this anecdote by listening to the way some interpretation of playing jazz musicians goes the fine line between this polarity: between measured repeated intervals of physical usual time and musical time sentences and beating "rhymes" in and out of usual flowing time... The pattern is a rolling resonant waves for me something akin to poetical time and resonance in speech compared to prosaic means...The African Youruba speaking drums are spectacular example of this in the hand of a master able to make the drum roll and speak and certainly one of the inspiration in the black soul origin of jazz......Time is no more flowing so much but metamorphosing itself into being ...Time unchained rolls...
I dont know if my post make sense for a seasonned musician... I am not one at all... I only listen.... 😁😊
**** the most important element in music, which is musical time out of metronomical or measured time, ****
That’s right. I would qualify that comment by streamlining the idea even further to simply “time”. Time is the most important element of music; and not only time outside a metronomic reference. It has to be all inclusive as far as possibilities. There are times in a musical performance of a particular work when metronomic time is precisely what the music demands; whether it be specified in the score, or whether it is an aspect of a conductor’s vision for the work. It is the musical cohesion and logic between the two polarities (to use your word) and all points in between that make a great performance. It is true that in Jazz this idea is “at the heart of what improvising musicians (do)”, In a much more subtle and much more controlled way it is the same and essential for the written score. In orchestral music, the magic happens when there is agreement with, or at least respect, for the conductor’s concept. That Bernstein/Corialan is a great example. Not only is it clearly heard, one can see the agreement and enthusiasm in the players’ body language, No matter the level of professionalism on the part of the players, there is always a bit extra given when they “get” what the conductor is trying to say; or, agree that the conductor is allowing what the composer is trying to say to be expressed. This is not always the case. In a way, the same thing happens in Jazz.
For this Grant Green album i love very much, like some others Grant Green, you are very right...
When i spoke about time in classical written music where the maestro determined the quality of the "musical time" and his value, i spoke about two extreme polarities about musical time like in the case of Furtwangler and Celibidache...
But i must admit that i begun to love jazz at a mature age only, when i was able to distinguish and perceive the most important element in music, which is musical time out of metronomical or measured time, a phenomenon especially at the heart of what improvising jazz musicians together experienced when playing at their optimal they created a piece where all is working well in his own time dimension...
This is the reason why now i love more musicians interpretation than the written score... Why i love jazz at the same level than classical.... And why i can appreciate Indian and Persian music as much as these other two European music for example...
When i was young, and not being a musician nor an educated music student, i goes only with my taste, now with maturity i learned slowly how to learn, listening "musical time" expression...What you called "magic"...My tastes were no more the main ruler in my listening, and it is for this reason i was able to open my mind to others musical dimensions...
Musicians are the salt and the meal of music not only and mainly the written score....Time is on their hands not in the written score....
My best to you and all....
On a different thread, mahgister wrote very eloquently about “time” in music; specifically, an orchestral conductor’s time conception. It could be said that the musical “particulars” that come into play (😉) in the expression of time in music are, fundamentally and to one degree or another, the same no matter the genre. When there is agreement on a deep level, the magic happens.
On a different thread, mahgister wrote very eloquently about “time” in music; specifically, an orchestral conductor’s time conception. It could be said that the musical “particulars” that come into play (😉) in the expression of time in music are, fundamentally and to one degree or another, the same no matter the genre. When there is agreement on a deep level, the magic happens; and there has to be a certain level of agreement between a conductor and the ensemble for the expression of a conductor’s time concept to be expressed well.
For me, this is one of those recordings with that magic. Amazing lineup of Larry Young, Grant Green, Elvin Jones and Sam Rivers all sharing that deep level of agreement. I have posted Larry Young’s “Unity” recording a couple of times previously. Classic, little known record. This one, “Into Somethin’ “ is his first Blue Note recording.
As an aside, it took me a while to appreciate Sam Rivers; tenor player who was active in the “out” or avant garde Jazz scene and who had a tone which was not pretty in the usual sense. It took me years to appreciate just how great he was. Sometimes we are too focused on tone at the expense of our appreciation for what the player is saying.
Nice! Great chart and some swinging solos. Thanks, pryso.
As you know, they were well known as a foursome as the saxophone section in the Woody Herman big band of the late ‘40’s; Woody’s Second Herd. A very unusual saxophone section in that it featured three tenors and a baritone; as opposed to the far more common lineup of two altos, two tenors and a baritone. The tune “Four Brothers” featured and celebrated the four members of the section:
pryso’s great clip brought a couple of things to mind: the influence of the great Lester Young on all four “brothers” and how much the concept of “swing” has changed over the years. Young, the “brother’s” and just about every saxophone player of that time played with a light tone, lots of vibrato and a feel good, easy sense of swing; none of the angular, more aggressive style of more modern players.
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