Jazz for aficionados

I was just messin' with The Frogman.

Cheers

Has anybody taken the time to listen to "Ike Quebec"?

Rest easy Rok,
The caliber of musicians we all enjoy don't resort to this nonsense.

And not very good sausage at that! But fear not, most of the players that do that kind of thing are not worth listening to anyway.

"in some cases today, a solo is "composed" in the mixing room by taking the first four bars of the first take, the middle twelve from the third take, the bridge from the fourth take, and then back to the first take for the last sixteen;

This is depressing. Frogman you have shattered all our illusions. What's next? That was not Miles blowing on 'kind of blue'. Miles was sick that day, his cousin Jerome took his place?

Like watching sausage being made. It's best not to watch or know some things.

And all this time I thought I was listening to spontaneous improvisation. So instead of jamming with 'Mingus at Antibes', I was actually jamming with Igor Fixitstein, the control room guy!

Too Much Information!

Cheers

Learsfool, great comments. I couldn't agree more with your comments re live performances vs. studio "performances"; that is precisely the reason that at least half of the links that I have posted here are live perfs. A while ago I made a comment in a thread (don't remember which) about the fact that some musicians (mostly older guys) feel that the advent of recording technology was "the beginning of the end". I was berated by some for that comment, which while overly pessimistic has truth in it; as you point out. Now, the beautiful thing about many of the classic recordings that we are talking about (classic Blue Notes, Prestige, etc.) is that digital editing was not part of the process back then, and in spite of some manipulation (balance, multiple takes etc.) they give us a much better representation of what the players could do than most of the recordings today. As you point out, many would be shocked at how, in some cases today, a solo is "composed" in the mixing room by taking the first four bars of the first take, the middle twelve from the third take, the bridge from the fourth take, and then back to the first take for the last sixteen; not to mention "fixing" fracks and squeaks. Even a singer's faulty pitch can be fixed in the booth with today's technology. Of course, the artists with the most integrity refuse to do much of this sort of thing, if at all.

Rok, thanks for "getting" where I am coming from. Too much great music out there to spend time bashing. Analysis and criticism is a different matter altogether, and serves to gain a deeper understanding of the music, IMO. No artist should be put on such a high pedestal that they are above it; and most of the great ones would be the first to admit it.

Learsfool,
Well said.As much as I truly enjoy listening to jazz with my system, it won't ever replace the feel and vibe I experience at the jazz clubs I frequently attend. There's no substitute.
Regards,

Frogman makes some very good points on Wynton and others. I would like to elaborate on one thing he said, about inconsistency, which I believe was in reference to Wynton in his post, but could be in reference to anyone, really, when we are talking about live performance. I am also aware, Frogman, that what I am about to say is not really the same point you were making, but more about inconsistency in general. None of us professional musicians are perfect in live performance. One thing that the recording age has done is to elevate the standards that people judge a live performance by, which is why many musicians were violently opposed to recordings when they first started, both in the jazz and classical worlds.

Recordings really can be "perfect" now - with the digital editing technology that exists now, it really is not exaggeration to say that recordings are really almost completely false now, often not resembling the actual playing done whatsoever. I have participated in opera recording sessions where all of the takes sounded like dogcrap. Every single one. Yet somehow, the engineer/editor put together a "recording" that sounds basically perfect. This is how it is done now, and the unfortunate thing about this is that it has raised unrealistic expectations for a live performance from people who don't know much about it, which is most people, including most audiophiles. This is one reason why so many audiophiles say they would rather sit at home and listen to their systems instead of going out to hear live music making. This is a very, very sad thing, IMO.

So I would say about many of these artists that we are discussing here - if you have only heard their recordings, you have not REALLY heard them. If we are talking about a living, presently working artist, you really need to hear them live to truly get a sense of what they can really do. And I want to make it clear that I am not just putting a negative spin on this - you will hear nuances in their live performances that the recordings just do not pick up, and you will slowly gain a greater appreciation for what it is they are actually doing, in the moment, making their music - the sort of things that have been under discussion in this thread, which I agree has been one of the best ever on this site. Yeah, you'll hear some flaws that are not on your recordings - but you will also hear (and feel) some magic that your recordings can never ever pick up, and which you are missing if you do not hear them live.

Charles1dad:

Smart Jazz players and fans support Wynton and his efforts to expose new people to Jazz and increase the fan base of the music. And in order to do that, the music must be accessible. Not a job for the Ornette Coleman's of the world.

It's sort of like Tiger Woods. Although all golfers want to win and try to win, they know that if they can't win it, it's better for them all if Tiger does. The more he wins, the more money for them all.

I have never heard or read of a Jazz player bashing Wynton. I think they know better. Too bad the fans don't.

Thanks for the words of support.

Cheers.

BTW, lest there be any doubt. I do not consider The Frogman a basher. That type of thing would be beneath a person with his musical knowledge and background.

Ike Quebec is one of my favorite tenor sax men. "Heavy Soul" is my favorite cut from that album which has been in my collection for ages. I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIZzHpXGEjg

Rok,
I feel the same, Wynton isn't my favorite trumpeter or the"best".I do enjoy his music and have much respect for him on several different levels. Like you I long ago tired of the redundant bashing.
Regards,

Frogman, we have no argument. I never said, or at least never meant to say that Wynton is the BEST anything. I am just reacting to the Wynton bashing that is out there. Not from you, but from many. If he is not the WORST Jazz player, then bash the guys whom he is better than! Just for a change.

Cheers

Clark Terry has been my favorite for years. Even when everyone else was going gaga over Miles. Maybe because I played Flugelhorn in concert band.

Orpheus10, good description of Shirley Horne's artistry. She is a beautiful singer; and plays great piano, too. That recording (Here's To Life) featuring the songs and orchestrations of Johnny Mandel is a true gem; beginning to end.

Rok, I am well aware of the context of "Layla". Of course, it was not a blowing session. But, in any context, when a truly exceptional improviser plays, the depth of the playing can "shred to pieces" lesser players. It doesn't have to be flashy, nor with a lot of notes. Nor does the intent have to be to surpass anyone else; the playing simply excels. Your point about Wynton playing for the moment is well taken. But, I would not give him too much credit for that; that is basic musicianship and there are many layers of excellence that go beyond that basic musical demand that separate the greats from the not so great.

****He plays to give enjoyment and pleasure to the listener.
I have him playing and singing (scatting) on a CD by Jon Hendricks. Doing the same on a CD with Willie Nelson!
And of course the Clapton CD. Name another Jazz player that could that****

Are you kidding? That is what jazz players do (not all scat well, of course). They are able to fit into a variety of situations:

Zoot Sims played on Phoebe Snow's debut album. Phil Woods played on Billy Joel's "I Love You Just The Way You Are". Wayne Shorter played on Steely Dan records, the list goes on and on. BTW, you want to hear great scatting from a trumpet player? Check out Clark Terry; amazing!

I am not a Wynton basher in the least. My point (which perhaps I have tried to make a little too gingerly, in order to not offend some;-) ) is that Wynton is a fine player, but sometimes inconsistent; and, at the end of the day, not on the level of many of the greats as far as depth of playing. That is simply why, with so many great classic recordings still missing from my collection, Wynton's are just not near the top of my list. Additionally, I doubt that fifty years from today, jazz students will be transcribing Wynton's solos. As far as he deserving the adulation that he receives from some AS A PLAYER, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Amazing performances by Clark Terry:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3AvImcsbt1U

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ldnGJn3wz2s

Shirley Horn, I have her CD 'you won't foget me'. That one includes Wynton, Branford and Miles. The lady traveled in good company. On another one she has Roy Hargrove. She has a thing for trumpet players? The clip you sent was indeed special.

Cootie Williams played with the Duke. So of course he can play. Wynton's solo on the Horn song was him doing what the song and the moment required.

Your comments on personal perferences and appreciations are right on target. Well said. Even me, with my big mouth, cannot think of anything to add. You Nailed it.

Your comments on the Wynton/Clapton CD? Extremely Close, But No Cigar.

You are not considering the total situation. I.E. the context of the playing. This was not a 'blowing' session. It was written arranged music, promoted as Wynton and Eric play the blues. It was not a head cutting event. The audience got what they came to hear.

All music arranged by wynton. No leader dominating the solos. Everyone played. All Had their moments. This was not a JATP thingy.

Considering the moment, the song, the location, the event,... the solo was perfect. The Shirley Horn tune called for something else, so he did something else. When he performs with Kathleen Battle doing Mozart, he again, does what is called for.

A few things to remember about Wynton.

He plays to please the audience. He actually wants people to like Jazz. So, sometimes he meets them halfway.

He is not from the 'mean streets' of anywhere, he is a memeber of a highly accomplished and respected Jazz music family, born and raised in the birthplace of Jazz.

He plays to give enjoyment and pleasure to the listener.
I have him playing and singing (scatting) on a CD by Jon Hendricks. Doing the same on a CD with Willie Nelson!
And of course the Clapton CD. Name another Jazz player that could do that. You want to know where he is coming from, think Louis Armstrong.

Some Jazz players, usually the unsuccessful ones, play for themselves. And others, the ones that do well, play for their audience, while exposing them to new things.

I ignored your 'IMO' thingy. That's understood and applies to us all, and if that was the final word, we could close the thread now.

Cheers

Frogman, Shirley Horn can really get you emotionally involved in her songs, they seem like short stories of her life. I'll have to get more of her work.

Cootie's music conjured up visions of Cab Calloway strutting across the stage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zvxIZZUyAk

I listened to Shirley Horn twist in order to absorb Wynton's solo, and it was every bit as good as you said it was. (apparently I have been misunderstood) I never said Wynton couldn't blow the trumpet, we just have two different concepts of good music when he does his own thing. Even if everyone in the universe thought Wynton's concept of good music was the best, when I go to the record store, I pay the cost to be the boss.

Enjoy the music.

As has been demonstrated many times over in this thread, the beauty of music (any music) is that it touches individuals in unique ways. Objectivity can only take one so far in determining (if one must) who is better, best, etc. as there is an inextricable link between what the artist is saying (or trying to say), how he is saying it, and the sensibilities of the particular listener. There are, in fact, certain universally accepted "cues" that the cognoscenti (aficionados) use to establish certain and usually broad benchmarks, but they are of usually limited use in discussions given the emotional nature of both the music and the discussions.

Having said that, and re the "Layla" cut, I definitely "get it", I just think that it is average blues trumpet playing at best. I think that the cut, as a whole, is really good and with a good vibe. But, where as this should have been an opportunity for "the jazz cat" to cut Clapton's, while good, typically derivative blues playing to shreds, it is only on a par with.

This I really get:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=relmfu&v=HJLsvlYE9t8

Talk about "telling a story". Or, really playing in the pocket. Listen to the subtle inflections that propel the groove even at (especially?) such a slow tempo. True artistry; IMO.

I hope this is downloadable (it is not on my IPad). This is one of my very favorite Wynton solos on record from one of my very favorite records of all time. Wynton was really on that day:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ur-lNeq4pQM

For you youtube folks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvNIivHdy0Q

If you don't get the trumpet solo on 'Layla', then you are hereby banished from the Jazz Aficionados faternity.

Of course all the other players are great also. Check out 'just a closer walk with thee' also. Hell, check out the whole CD.

I find that I am a lot more receptive and sympathetic to music when I can see the players as they play.

Cheers

Wynton makes a million a year? Tiny Tim made that much in one day singing 'tiptoe thru the tulips'. And they say there is no justice!

I don't like Wynton's music, I don't like my own music, because I can't make any. I don't like Dr. Dre's music, but I do like Harold Land's music. I was able to get top dollar for Wynton's LP's that I sold because so many other people like his music, and I'm glad for me and Wynton. Some people like strawberry while others like vanilla.

Enjoy the music.

It certainly doesn`t mean he`s a better musician.It is sheer evidence he`s far more popular and has legions of fans who are happy consumers of his product.Was Michael Jackson a better musician than T.Monk?
Regards,

Dr. Dre grossed $110. million pretax. Does that mean he's 110 times better musician than Wynton Marsalis who only made a measly 1 million or so?

Well said, Charles1dad. BTW, and this is simply a statement of fact and not a criticism, but Wynton's salary from Jazz At Lincoln Center alone is $1 million+

Thanks Frogman,
Max said just what you described, Harold was just a better fit.Max expressed much respect for Sonny's talent and stature, he simply preferred the playing of Land. The fate of a wonderful saxophonist like Land playing in small town venues to earn money is stark contrast to Wynton Marsalis. This I think explains the envy and resentment some feel towards him (why does he get all the breaks and the big bucks? ).Ironically it's precisely someone like Wynton who helps to revive and promote the recognition of the Harold Lands of jazz past and present . Otherwise these types of timeless artists would completely be lost in obscurity.
Regards,

Sonny, taking no prisoners:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MgZVT2m0ziY

And BTW, interesting that those comments should come from Max Roach, a drummer. I would imagine that because of what I described above, Sonny's rhythmic forcefulness did not suit a drummer's traditional role in an ensemble.

Excellent comments re Harold Land; with which I completely agree. He was a great tenor player and while not as widely known by the public as some of the tenor stars, no question about how his peers felt about him. I heard him play live in 1982 in a small club in a small town in the mid-West (I was on tour and there were so many small towns that I don't remember which one it was). What I do remember (and this goes to Rok's question re how jazz musicians make money) is thinking and wondering what a great player like that was doing playing in such a small club, practically in the middle of nowhere. How much could that club be possibly paying him?

The comparison to Sonny is an interesting one, and one that is a study on just what it is, exactly, that makes a great player. As with most things, it's all about context. There is no question, IMO, that Sonny is the more important player in the overall scheme of the history of the music. He was (is) a true innovator with a distinctive sound and approach, and an incredibly powerful musical personality. When one listens to his recordings there is no doubt that he is the overwhelming driving force. It is almost as if the rhythm section plays around HIS time feel; not the other way around, as is usually the case. That was one of the reasons that his piano-less performances were so successful. Harold Land was a more subtle player with a certain elegance in his improvisations who did not demand that he be the "center of attention"; this made him a much better ensemble player and a better complement to Clifford's playing.

Charles1dad, when you're a true jazz aficionado, as you are; you're guided by your "inner ear" and not by public opinion, consequently you will often prefer the lesser known artist.

Enjoy the music.

Thanks O-10,
I read long ago an interview with Max Roach where he`s discussing his band of the 1950s.He said they preferred Land to Sonny Rollins at that time.Many jazz fans likely found that surprising as Land is by far the lesser known of those two.Land would be my choice also.
Regards,

This weekend's playlist:

Eddie 'cleanhead' Vinson & Cannonball Adderley -- Cleanhead & Cannonball
Cleanhead sings, Cannonball Quintet plays. It just, does not work. This probably looked good on paper. They both do their respective things well enough, it's just not a good pairing. The Quintet just does not have the proper sound and instrumentation to back a blues shouter.
This would have been better with a Carmen McRae or a Nancy Wilson type singer, or Basie backing Vinson. On the track 'Audrey', Cleanhead tries to be a crooner. A total disaster!! You're a Shouter, not a Crooner!! (full metal jacket) Ain't got it? You don't need it.

Count Basie (w/ Joe Turner & Eddie 'cleanhead' Vinson) -- Kansas City Shout
After the disappointment above, I moved down the shelf to Basie. He has Cleanhead and Joe Turner. Both guys sing great. Turner is showing his age, but that don't matter!! Great selection of tunes. Some of the same tunes as on the cannonball CD. As you audiophile folks say, 'Night and Day' !!

As an added bonus, you get to hear the Basie Band, The Basie Quartet and the Basie Trio. Great playing. Basie gets to stretch out on piano. Wow!!

Favorite blues line? "woke up this morning, got me a jug, and laid back down". hahahahahahaha It's called the blues! (With all due respect to you clapton and canned heat fans). I love this stuff. Ain't got it? You know the drill!, Git it!!!

Art Blakey's Jazz messengers -- Ugetsu
The messengers live at Birdland. Way above average for the Blakey group. Hubbard, Shorter and Curtis Fuller (trombone) on the horns. Good atmosphere. Art played the entire set without taking a solo. I think that's good. Those guys should concern themselves with keeping time. I feel that most drum solos just disrupt the flow of the music. Recommended.

Roy Hargrove -- Roy Hargrove's Crisol : Habana
This is what is called a GEM!! Roy Hargrove and his quintet in Cuba. WOW! This is well played, well written music by a semi-large group of professionals.. 10 members. The percussion playing is awesome!!
A lot of big time guys on board. Chucho Valdez, David Sanchez, Horacio Hernandez, John Benitez, Russell Malone and others. No one person dominates. Everyone gets their time. Even Chucho is under control, at least until the last tune. He wrote it, called Mambo for Roy. Great stuff.

Horace Silver -- The Hardbop Grandpop
Not BlueNote. But Impulse is close enough. This could easily have been recorded in the 50's. Silver has not lost his touch.
Roditi, Michael Brecker, Steve Turre,. Ronnie Cuber, Ron Carter and Lewis Nash on board. My worst fears were not realized, they all meshed and played beautifully. Recorded 1996. I guess we can call it Late Silver.

I hope someone finds some of these to their liking.

Cheers

Charles1dad, All of the artists you mentioned are well represented in my collection.

Harold Land is special to me because he appears on one of my favorite LP's. Clifford Brown & Max Roach; this features Harold, tenor sax; Richie Powell, piano, and George Morrow, bass. My favorite cut on that LP is Delilah, and here she is..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OGfCBlJ8y4

Here is Lands end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNgXdzFQeYk

Enjoy the music.

O-10,
I have a piano at home and my wife and I love to hear it played.I attend local jazz clubs regularly and have done so for many years. I have no delusion that home audio equals the live experience. What I've discovered though is certain types of components get me pleasingly close and deeply emotionally involved. So I'm very happy listening often when at home.

It's a genuine pleasure to be able to hear the performances of great musicians in your home system when ever you desire. Here's an example, last night I'm really enjoying listening to Harold Land and thought, he plays the same instrument as Dexter Gordon and Johnny Griffin. They're more or less from the same era and all three at some point have played the same standards and ballads, Yet it's very easy to tell one from the other.Each has their own sound and approach.Each could play "Lush Life" or "It Never Entered my Mind" and they would sound readily different and all three would be beautiful.
Regards,

Rok, musicians' wages? Yikes! That's gonna take some time; lot's to say. Will be back.

Frogman:

I was just listening to the CD, 'UGETSU', Art Blakey and the Messengers live at birdland. This is the 'review' everyone has been clamoring for me to write, and surely awaits with bated breath.

Outstanding Cover photo. But the club seems to be very small. However, any and everyone who is, or, has ever been anyone, has played there.

So, my question is, how does a group make money, playing in a place that small. Then I started thinking about who makes or made money in Jazz. And how much, i.e. how high a standard a living? Say, from the golden era of bluenote to the present.

Based on your personal experience and knowledge, can you speak to this? Of course in a gerneral sense.

Thanks

Cheers

Charles1dad, "What moves us is purely personal and unique, it's impossible to expect unanimous agreement on what musicians we like and don't like.The point is jazz is a extraordinary form of art and I'm just happy there are others here who love it as much as I do."

You have expressed my sentiments precisely, and your love of this music has taken me back to artists I've forgotten. Shirley Scott's warm, and soulful organ takes me back to a time that I listened to "live" organ more than I listened to recorded organ. Now I realize the highest of the high end, can not even come close to a live organ. I was telling someone how I recall a friends sound on organ as being so much better than what I heard on my LP's or CD's, and he said it was because I heard it live. Since I had heard sax, trumpet, vocal, and even piano live; and when I compared them to my recorded versions of the same tunes, there wasn't that same vast difference that occurred with the organ. Now I realize that the organ covers such a wide range of frequencies and dynamics, that a recording can't even come close; but in the case of my friend, that only partially explains it.

Thanks to you and others who have posted, my love for this music is even better the second time around.

Enjoy the music.

Learsfool,
I really appreciate your comments and insights concerning Wynton.It must have been so much fun spending time with him.I hope you do get a chance to play with him one day.
Frogman,
Thanks for those clips, I enjoyed them.I liked Clifford Brown's version the most.Wynton was just beautiful playing the Carnival of Venice.

O-10,
What moves us is purely personal and unique, it's impossible to expect unanimous agreement on what musicians we like and don't like.The point is jazz is a extraordinary form of art and I'm just happy there are others here who love it as much as I do.
Regards,

Frogman:

I 'assume' you think the Freddie and Clifford playing was better. I might agree, on this one instance, but I am sure they could all play it many, many ways. that is one of, if not THE, essential component of Jazz. Improvisation.

The classical piece was great. I have Wynton with the great soprano, Kathleen Battle, on 'Baroque Duet'. I also have him doing Trumpet Concertos by Haydn, Hummel and L. Mozart. Great playing.

As I have said before, he is more than just another Jazz player. He is a multifaceted Musician. At home in any genre. He can play Cherokee anyway you want it. Or he wants it.

Cheers

Been very busy lately, but wanted to chime in on the trumpet talk, being a horn player. I concur with everything Frogman says about the mariachi style, and I grew up hearing a ton of it. Interestingly, they also often use a tuba in the bass, with the same "punchy" style of articulation, as Frogman put it. Kind of hilarious, really, but fun.

I also get very tired of folks who try to claim Wynton is somehow "not musical." These type of comments are almost never backed up with a genuine argument, and smack of anti-intellectualism to me. A very similar victim of this in the classical world is the great pianist Alfred Brendel. I strongly object to the attitude that someone who is very smart and educated and a great teacher can't possibly have any soul as well. His education didn't get him to where he is at the top of the jazz world, though of course his intelligence helped greatly - it was his playing and yes, his soul. One simply couldn't develop the incredible musical versatility he possesses without soul.

For some disclosure - I have met and spent some time with him, actually outside of the music world, interestingly enough - I never got to play with or for him, though we talked music. It was a long time ago now, and he probably wouldn't remember me, but I spent enough time with him then to realize that he is a very passionate, soulful individual. And a heck of a basketball player, at least at that time, which was slightly more than twenty years ago now.

But then again, Freddie nor Clifford would have stood a chance with this:

http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_uri=%2F#/watch?feature=related&v=Gu2f_-01BdE

Amazing!

Overlook the flash, and "Wow factor", and see which ones belong in "the best" category due to strong sense of thematic development, musical logic, and ability to let you follow the tune at all times. It's clear to me. What do you think?

http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_uri=%2F#/watch?v=9OtZrIjQuwA

http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_uri=%2F#/watch?v=D4bgd2yAY54

http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_uri=%2F#/watch?v=-Y6U0TD3z34

I really like Jimmy Smith paired with Kenny Burrell.When I think about it, Kenny was good with practically anyone he played with.
Regards,

I agree with all the positive comments about the Ray Charles / Milt Jackson recording. Very good. No filler.

I also pulled out the Lee Morgan CD, 'The Cooker'. Agree with O-10's review. But, I would have given a special shout out to Bobby Timmons and the rhythm section. They almost stole the show.

I only have Shirley Scott on one CD. That's with her husband Stanley Turrentine. CD entitled Hustlin'. I have a lot more of her on LP. She was gifted.

But since you mentioned the B-3, I will have to inflict a Jimmmy Smith 'review' on you people.

Cheers

Charles1dad, I have been listening to Shirley Scott with Lockjaw Davis, on a " Cookbook'' compilation. Great playing from everyone. Jerome Richardson adds a lot of great flute playing.

I think I have the original recordings somewhere???

Charles1dad, although we don't agree on Wynton, this has been the best jazz thread ever, and I appreciate everyone's contributions, even the very few that I disagreed with.

I've expanded my collection with some boss jazz. Shirley Scott is an organist that I like very much, and I'm glad you reminded me of that fact.

Rok,
I think you'll like Ray and Milt "Soul Brothers/Meeting", pure blues beauty. Ray's chords are just so right (that's what I always Ioved about Barry Harris accompanying also).
Regards,

Rok,
Well said regarding Wynton.
O-10.Look, I respect your stance, we'll just respectfully disagree, he can play and also make music in my opinion.I sincerely appreciate all the contributions to this thread.We are all lovers of jazz but with individual viewpoints (as it should be).Rok and I just happen to see Wynton in the same light.

To change topics, does anyone here listen to Shirley Scott? Last night I played three CDs of her and it was pure communication taking place. Man, can she play that B3 organ wow! She swings as good as anybody regardless of the instrument.What a musician she is.
Regards,

Fellow Jazz Lovers:

Wynton has become the 'goto' guy in Jazz for the non-Jazz world. Need a guest on a talk show to talk about Jazz? Who you gonna call? Who gets the coverted gig at Lincoln Center? He is the face of Jazz in this country, actually the world. Don't like it, or agree, too bad.

Some feel he is not the BEST Jazz / trumpet player or indeed not even the best in his family. That does not matter. What he has, is the appropriate / required SKILL SET to represent the art form. He has it all. The education, personality, speaking ability and abouve all he KNOWS the music and it's HISTORY. And, like you said, he can play! He is a modern day Louis in that respect.

Now some players resent all this. There are not many perks in Jazz, and Wynton seems to get them all. I understand this, even if I don't agree with their attitude. The fans, are as you said. Hippness and possessors of some insight the rest of us po souls don't have, is their motivation. I understand them also.

I respect him more than any other player. He is in the arena, doing all he can to grow the music and keep it alive and relevant in today's music world. Hard to do with all the noise, static and easy undeserved money out there.

And lastly. He looks like a Jazz player! Talk about Cool and hip? That's Wynton. We need more like him!

Cheers

BTW, O-10, I get Ray and Milt today. Will Report.

Charles1dad, no one ever said Wynton couldn't play the trumpet, he just can't make music. I wouldn't disagree with someone who said he was the worlds best "trumpet player", that's different than making music. Whatever it takes, he aint got it.

He could be the most incredible "sideman" that ever lived, but by consensus of the "aficionados", his music is too "stereotypical".

Enjoy the music.

It's interesting concerning the backlash some have towards Wynton.It seems a badge of hipness and inter circle creditability to dis him. Too mainstream, unoriginal, lacks soul, passion, and on and on it goes.I'd love the opportunity to get any of these "hipper" musicians on the stage with him and attempt to outplay or "expose him", good luck. Just seems like typical envy and petty jealousy ("hey he gets to much undeserved praise"). Reminds me of how some people react to Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan. They're so talented and gifted that people just find reasons not to like them.

It someone doesn't like Wynton's style that a matter of taste (and that's fine) butvto say he can't play or not to acknowledge his obvious talent is just nutty.The man can flat out play the trumpet.
Regards,

Frogman:

Thanks for the prompt and informative reply on the Mariachi trumpet question.

Paquito Vindicated!!! This guy can blow / bop with the best. I listened to 'Milstones' with Claudio Roditi, Paquito and Kenny Barron Great record. I guess it depends what you are playing and where and with whom. This set is live at the bluenote.

I get LULU today. Can't wait to see and hear Miss Julia.

Cheers