Still going strong on Sunday morning.....
Jazz for aficionados
Jazz for aficionados
I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Enjoy the music.
I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Enjoy the music.
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Me i am truly enjoying Blue Mitchell sound ... I dont have this one thanks ...
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Here’s a musician who certainly deserves to not be forgotten by today’s Jazz listeners, as he seems to have been. Not only a terrific baritone saxophonist, but he also had a successful career as a film and TV series composer (He also designed the cover art for several well known Jazz lps). Who has heard of Gil Melle?
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It seems frogman hit hard another time with someone i did not know but is very interesting musically ... Thanks ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gd4Ukl6snFM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61sM-8M0no4
This one is mesmerizing and i dont like electronica generally ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsF5Nb-QjF0
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I agree.
I’d have preferred a less distorted guitar tone on the "Waterbirds" recording. J. McLaughlin didn’t employ his Mahavishnu O. guitar tone on "In A Silent Way" and for good reason. Needless to say, others will disagree. |
As unknown as Gil Melle ... And certainly not less creative is Jan Johansson a Swedish legendary jazz pianist in his country ... He dies at 37 years old in 1968 .... The 11 albums i listened to are creative and completely unique ... Try this one but i must confess they are all interesting : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3XVE-Wzwjk&list=OLAK5uy_lCP4HYEp4BA-GJf8e6_EH343qqFJ_70O8
Jazz after the war stay not just a specialized genre from America but became little by little a musical universal new larger encompassing language ... As interesting as classical ....
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I sometimes think of selling my turntable and records and go to streaming only, the world at my fingertips, Then I come across records like Gil Mele’s " Waterbirds", which never made it to CD and will be forgotten in history. I’m keeping my records and buying even more till my daughter ships me off. |
@curiousjim Listen to Chamber’s ’Bass on top’ album...
’Speaking’ of ’Frogman’s rule’,... here is a debut album of Nancy Harrow. It is recorded in 1961. with a quite strong line up. She did not lead lead album until 1978 (except one lesser known from 1968, quote from ’All music’)
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Art Farmer this morning, but I’ll be listening to Paul Chambers, Bass on top, by days end. Thanks for the suggestion @alexatpos . |
@curiousjim I came across the "Crossings" album while searching for more recordings that featured Red Garland and Philly Joe Jones. To my surprise, after the two of them stopped working in the Miles Davis Quartet, they would only record together again just a few times throughout the rest of their careers. Its a shame as they were so "in sync" with each other. Miles Davis is on record saying that Philly Joe, Red Garland, and Paul Chambers were one of the greatest rhythm sections he ever worked with. Garland went on to record a lot of albums as a leader but used Art Taylor on drums predominantly after his stint with Miles Davis. Art Taylor was no slouch himself but I prefer philly Joe Jones's comping, solos, and brush playing, as well as his superb sense of keeping time. Miles is also on record stating that Philly Joe was just as good on the kit as Tony Williams and Elvin Jones. I'm stating the obvious saying this book is only for drummers but a friend of mine, himself a drummer, mentioned this book to me and the quote I took from the only review on Amazon says a lot about Philly Joe.
I could not find "Crossings" on Spotify either so I ordered the CD on Discogs.
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Speaking of A. Farmer, are you familiar with this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G5quNRGnCE&list=OLAK5uy_nnE2EwWUyJwoXr_u6ToaLz56ptYbNZlso The same group recorded the "Something to Live For" album, dedicated to B. Strayhorn. Here is the title track (the full album is not available in full on Youtube): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiqhOBDfo8U
That’s quite an endorsement! I’m curious: would you say Philly Joe was as innovative as Williams and Jones, or more of a peer in terms of technique?
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That is a quote from Miles Davis. I think Elvin and Tony Williams were more innovators as both of them had unique styles that they innovated first and other drummers follow/copy to this day. I think Miles was talking about comping and harmonic telepathy as well as keeping time. When I have time I will elaborate more. |
I collected many albums of these two playing together this only time i think :
Yelena Eckemoff · Manu Katche "Colors" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4FLCc-TAIQ&list=PLKyeEtfjtazmJHZBOBzvDrAo1dW1Ucg6d |
Although I happen to prefer the two I suggested already, "Modern Art" and "Portrait of Art Farmer" are better known:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xlwqdq1KY8&list=OLAK5uy_kBmYS4IvRE1WxDXl7XeTXGQkBqCWRO4Io
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On the subject of “influence” and Elvin Jones/Tony Williams. I think it is important when comparing players to not think too much in terms of superiority of perceived amount of “influence”. Elvin and Williams were tremendously influential and copied by other drummers. But so were players like Philly Joe. Elvin and Williams would be the first to say it as Philly Joe was one of THEIR main influences. It’s a continuum. Jazz is always building on what came before stylistically and like any art form it reflects the time of its creation. Tommy Williams was heavily Rock influenced. He is considered by many to be the first Fusion drummer.. He was the perfect drummer for Miles’ “Second Great Quintet”. A stylistic period of Miles’ that clearly showed him headed toward a Fusion/Rock sensibility. Williams would not have been the perfect drummer for Miles’ “The Quintet”. I can’t imagine Miles’ “Cookin” without the feel and swagger that Philly Joe brought to the music.
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Well, I’m perplexed. You are more erudite than I"ll ever be on the topic of Jazz but I definitely don’t hear the music of the 2nd great 5tet as fusion-like. Once Corea and Holland arrived, yes. Before that? No. Would you therefore characterize the albums J. McLean released when he had Williams on drums similarly, or William’s two early Blue Notes as a leader? I’m curious about your thinking process. Care to explain? Speaking of B Carter, I particularly enjoy "Further Definitions" and "Jazz Giant" even though they sound "old fashioned" within the context of my collection, which is mostly Post Bop. |
@stuartk thanks the question. Good one. I’ll respond later today. |
Good choice indeed and good ears...😊😉 It is one of the best three among the 12 albums i listened to ...
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I focussed my attention on a drummer these days ... It is not often the case ... Sometimes in the past i did it as for Paul Motian for example or Elvin Jones ... Manu Katché is very interesting ... I am interested by albums created around him ...I listen to 9 of them now ... He did never take the stage and serve the music so well we forget him but his work is so minimalistically musically good ... Colored me impressed ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHnbMbMMr38
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@stuartk , with respect (sincerely!), I think that you are “viewing” the process of the evolution of Jazz with “markers” that are too broad. I never said that the sound of the “second great quintet” was Fusion-like. I wrote: *** A stylistic period of Miles’ that clearly showed him headed toward a Fusion/Rock sensibility ***. “…headed toward…”. Now, obviously, to identify why it can be said that it is “headed toward” there must be some characteristics in the style of the compositions and the style of how they are played that points to a change and a departure from the then current general Jazz sensibility. That departure/change had begun a few years earlier still. The reason KOB is such a landmark recording is that it changed everything. It ushered in modal Jazz. Most of the tunes on KOB have very simple chord progressions and those are based on “modes”. While standard Jazz tunes written up to the time of KOB might have up to two or three different chord changes in each and every measure of a thirty two measure chorus, in modal Jazz you might have one single chord change every eight measures. It was Miles’s way of freeing up the soloists from the harmonic constraints of complex chord changes. Well, what is one of the main identifying traits of Fusion (as being discussed here)? Very simple chord progressions and the use of modes. Sheer coincidence? It’s part of the continuum that is the evolution of the music and those changes happen over time in much finer increments than we often consider. Then there is the change in the general approach to rhythm. By the late ‘50’s Jazz starts becoming less “swingy”. Less of a triplet feeling and closer (ultimately almost entirely) to a straight, more even, feel. This is reflected in the way that the players play. As always, what drives these changes has a lot to do with societal sensibilities as a whole. Artists are people too and they express what’s happening at the time. Tony Williams was a young Jazz drummer living in a time when R&R was taking off. A music with very even rhythmic feel, zero swing of the usual type. And he goes on to record projects that had very strong Rock elements. Is it any surprise that Williams would have a certain sensibility in his playing that was what Miles was looking for as he moved his music forward stylistically? I don’t think so. Herbie Hancock. Herbie went on to record a great deal in a funk/fusion/electronic groove. Wayne Shorter. Shorter went on to co-found probably the biggest name in Fusion, Weather Report. More coincidences??? No way! It had all been set in motion by the time that the music became overtly and obviously “FUSION”. Miles chose those particular players for a reason. That is what I mean when I say Miles was “clearly headed toward a Fusion/Rock sensibility”. That’s the way it always works. Doesn’t matter the time period. In many general ways the same things can be said of the the evolution of Jazz from traditional/Dixieland to Swing, to Bebop, to the present. Miles was a great musical genius. He was obviously the main driving force in his bands regardless of time period, but he chose players that played in a way that supported his broader musical vision at any point in his career. Thanks for the dialogue. I enjoy your commentary, Btw, perhaps I don’t understand this part of your question about Tony Williams’ first two Blue Notes. To me, “Lifetime” is full fledged Fusion by then.
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Each post of frogman is like a small jazz masterclass ...😊 Thanks ... It help my ears/brain to listen differently and approach a musician as Davis with more understanding than just my mere uninformed "taste" ... Music is also ethic and knowledge not only esthetic, each musician embody an ethical,esthetical and a knowledge perspective inherited from his time which he contribute to transform ... my thanks to you frogman... |
Thanks for taking the time to go into this topic in more depth. What you say makes sense. As a guitar player, I understand the significance of modes. Perhaps Fusion is itself too broad a term because as time went on, the genre changed quite a bit. Now that we’re into this topic, I’m not even sure when Fusion started. Is "Extrapolation" Fusion? What about "Odyssey of Iska" or "Mountain in the Clouds" or the first version of RTR w/ F. Purim? Or, are these transitional, occupying a hazy territory somewhere between Jazz and Fusion? The above albums sound very different, to my ears, than say "School Days" , "Splendido Hotel" or "In Search of a Dream". These albums are much slicker, more Funk and Rock influenced, with a more overt emphasis on dazzling chops and "tunes" based on (to me) often monotonous riffs/ostinatos rather actual chord changes. BTW, the "Lifetime" album I referred to was not the one with larry Young and Johnny Mac. It was this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DZccr0dzWE
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I just finisher to listening to many albums of Manu Katché a drummer ... The musicians who he attracted are very good ... None of these 8 albums were bad... I pick only jazz albums .... Katché make other collaborations in many genres ... We often think here in this thread about musician creativity and influence , who is the best at sax or trumpet etc ... These are esthetical thoughts about creativity ... our tastes evaluation about creativity and esthetic for each of us about any albums can vary ...
But there is also healing effects which are specific to our own metabolism and habit ...Which effects are not evaluated as esthetical factors .... This explain why some music appears just good or bad for some and not for others ... Katche music is very relaxing jazz to me ... 😊
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@frogman Thanks for your input on the Elvin Jones, Tony Williams, and Philly Joe discussion. My drummer friend told me Elvin listened to a lot of Shadow Wilson's drumming for some of his own ideas especially concerning "triplet fills". And here is a text my drummer friend sent me a while back about Jimmy Cobb and Philly Joe. My friend had just had a lesson with the NYC jazz drummer Dan Weiss. The lesson was focused on Roy Haynes's drumming.
@frogman I was wondering if you know the jazz drummer Dan Weiss. He and my buddy Mike were working on Roy Haynes's famous "snap crackle" technique. |