Jazz for aficionados
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?? Anyway...The best alto player? who's your favorites? Here is a few of mine Cannonball Adderley Quintet feat. Joe Zawinul (Oslo, 1969) NRK (c) - YouTube Art Pepper - Kongsberg Jazzfestival 1980 - YouTube Duke Ellington and his orchestra in concert 1969 Solo for Johnny Hodges . - YouTube
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I’m not a horn player, so cannot comment on who’s "best". 😊 However, I know who I like! Four of my favorites: in order, Kenny Garrett, Vincent Herring, Art Pepper, Jackie McLean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdF-iNLw2WY&list=OLAK5uy_nzRDhTQsYxrCuBNAomx-pAqToHlmWhfYg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn03wa67zKw&list=OLAK5uy_n2S-VDqt5glXBqlg6cVlLra0XN1zkYIo8&index=2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejswK8CS8S4
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I dont even know their name but they seems promising ... Thanks stuartk , i will investigate... 😉
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Frank Morgan, great player with very interesting life story... https://www.allmusic.com/artist/frank-morgan-mn0000173007#biography https://youtu.be/yp8x-aoU3z4?feature=shared https://youtu.be/CnwBiCimaCc?feature=shared https://youtu.be/pK3pVKDr0Us?feature=shared https://youtu.be/Amz4g-EpmUA?feature=shared https://youtu.be/c4gruji_J6s?feature=shared
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Yes, Parker’s innovations and technical virtuosity influenced not just every saxophone player, be it alto, tenor, soprano or baritone, but also every instrument played from the 40s through the 21st century. Paul Desmond and Sonny Stitt belong on the greatest altoist list for sure! |
A great group of alto players. I am an Art Pepper completist and have well over 50 CDs of Pepper in my collection. Jackie McLean recorded 3 albums in the 60s that are on my desert island list. Kenny Garrett and Vincent Herring. I have seen both live numerous times. I have a fairly large collection of KG albums and my favorite of them all is this live session. It features Pharoah Sanders and a very enthusiastic audience. KG discussing the album Kenny Garrett : new cd 'Sketches of MD' w/ Pharoah Sanders - YouTube The opening track "The Ring" . KG and Pharoah playing "the head" in unison. 01 The Ring Kenny Garrett，Sketches of MD - Live at the Iridium，Jazz Saxophone - YouTube Do you have this album?
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Frank Morgan and Art Pepper have 4 things in common. They both belong on the list of greatest all time alto players. They both had ongoing heroin addiction problems throughout their lives. They both spent a substantial amount of time in prison. They both overcame addiction and made monumental comebacks!
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As you can guess i am half the time in the world scene jazz not only on the North American jazz scene ...The world scene jazz is bigger and very creative ...
Who could say that there is no great Portuguese jazz composer and player ? Here a pianist who is creative as the greatest one and who has no great debt to Art Tatum or Bill Evans because he did not try to imitate them anyway ... Read his wikipedia entry ...Bernardo Sassetti... he died at 42 years old alas! I own almost all his albums ... As an appetitizer : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMj6Ad0JngM
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"JEEP" There is technical improvisation and emotional improvisation and I would nominate Hodges as one of the greatest at emotional improvisation. What a classic "bluesy tone/feel", something that Cannonball Adderly displays as well. Duke Ellington & Johnny Hodges "I Got it Bad" (1958) - YouTube Cannonball Adderley Sextet - Work Song (Jazz Scene, 1962) - YouTube Jeep's Blues - Duke Ellington 1956 - YouTube
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Reposting, but its on subject... Lenny Hambro
https://youtu.be/AiPm3Wy6OAE?feature=shared
https://youtu.be/i0UoVb52teI?feature=shared
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Hal McKusick has been mentioned before, too, but, still...
https://youtu.be/cIluf1jyMys?feature=shared https://youtu.be/8bC5kYno7e4?feature=shared
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Great alto players mentioned. Other favorites: Gene Quill: https://youtu.be/Um1k6O8gsFw?si=515Zhzir5_MdE_so https://youtu.be/He8AiFTPNcA?si=AgNvERd7c3lEdTgq Lee Konitz: https://youtu.be/LAufCG4rH6o?si=l3fXh4vpS2ym6Cex Charlie Mariano: https://youtu.be/-aVKk6LHvmA?si=NeNBR-zSxTHAcml4 Charles Macpherson: https://youtu.be/YnHM3VxpJTk?si=tGI_yCCnoj3LCPtb NEW BLOOD: Miguel Zenón: https://youtu.be/xajjEh8MyDk?si=kDDMKBZm-EEXqr2j
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Check out David Sanborn (really!!) on this Gil Evans track: https://youtu.be/CAD8CqYCGwQ?si=dQkU5w2NMCW_784x
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@pjw81563 Thanks for setting me straight! I did not realize Sanborn had recorded so much as a leader and sideman. |
David Sanborn is the most imitated alto player in the Pop/Jazz-Funk-R&B style, Not an improviser on the level of harmonic sophistication of the recently mentioned alto players. However, in a funky setting he is the best. One hears a tone and general attitude that is clearly borrowing from Sanborn from countless alto saxophone players in genres that lean more to Rock and/or Smooth Jazz. Not a put down all all. He has tons of what pjw recently referred to as (great) “emotional improvisation”. Playing stuff that leans to bebop, that highly stylized, acerbic tone of his sounds a little out of place and unwieldy. But, man, playing a Pop ballad or funky back beat he is the greatest.
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That’s the point of what I wrote above. There aren’t any. I have heard Sanborn play in more straight ahead settings as part of special event TV shows (including his own late night show years ago), award shows, etc. He can work his way through a set of changes more complicated than in most Pop tunes, but It’s not his forte. It’s kind of the reverse of the way that, for instance, Lee Konitz playing in a one chord funky groove would sound….kinda weird. The genre doesn’t need much of that boundless harmonic skill, it needs a certain attitude and sound. |
I do not use pc audio or any streamers, so when I search for new music, I stick to the old fashioned way of ’digging’ via ’All music guide to jazz’ book and later ytube for preview listening, if there are any clips. I really should thank some of the posters there, for time and effort and for sharing their music.. However, (for me) its getting harder to find music ( ’nos’) that I really consider ’exceptional’,perhaps the reason lies in ’Frogman’s rule’ Anyway, here are some of the albums that I bought recently, not essential music, but still good ones, perhaps some might find them to their liking. In random order:
Les McCann live album from Village Vanguard 1967, here under 'I am in love title, but sometimes is also issued as 'How's your mother' title. I have the latter one
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@stuartk , well, since I have started posting here, I have tryed to introduce fellow members to some long forgotten artists and hopefully I menaged to do so.In the same time I have always wondered why some of them never made it, in terms of recognition, at least, even to their contemporaries, nevermind the enthusiasts from the present. Now, there comes the Frogman, who basically said (not in so few words and no so blunt) that reason being so is that those guys were never so ’good’ to be ’recognised’ at first place. So, there were some questions and discussions raised about it, but between the ’old’ posters that remained as colloquial expression (often with mild irony) when some of the artists of that ’type’ were mentioned... I am aware of Penguin guide, but ’All music’ seemed to be more complete, back than when I got it and later I have just continued to use it.... |
I like clarity, especially when my comments are being (mis)represented. So, to be clear: The term “The Frogman’s rule” was coined by Rok2id in response (in part) to an ongoing “debate” here about the possible reasons that some musicians are not as well known as others. I would not be so self centered as to make a “rule” for anyone else but myself. As further background, there was a suggestion made AT THE TIME that it was usually some sort of injustice at play. The “starving genius artist” myth. I disagreed and wrote that the reason was OFTEN (not always) that the artistry of the musician in question was usually not on the level of better known artists and that when one considers the reality of the music business (and it is precisely that), that lesser artists will not receive as much attention via bookings, recordings contracts and record sales. I stand by that assertion. However, and I said it then, there have been examples of artists deserving of wider recognition who did not receive that recognition for a variety of reasons, usually personal: drug use, difficult to work with, etc. Alex has often posted obscure artists and, FOR ME, several (not all, and I said it at the time) simply weren’t on a level that interested me when one considers the vast number of recordings available by truly great players. Personally, I can’t imagine ever being “bored” with the existing supply of great recordings by great players. And I’m not talking about the greatest of the great either. Not every really good tenor player, for instance, is on the level of a Coltrane, or Rollins, but still rewarding to listen to….obviously. However, there are many levels below that and it gets to the point when one (I) says “what’s the point?”. Just to have something different? Even if it’s mediocre? Worse yet, NOT different, but totally derivative. No thanks . Lastly, as time marched on many of the supposedly “obscure” players posted weren’t that obscure at all. For instance, look at recent posts. Howard McGhee and Eddie Harris, obscure?! I don’t think so. Anyway, this subject would arise in discussion one way or another over the years and the term “Frogman’s rule” stuck, somehow. I’ve never used it myself. I hope this clarifies things somewhat and Happy Holidays to all.
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I must say that i am not a musician... I cannot evaluate jazz players as well and as precisely and historically as erudite as frogman ... As he said there is no rule... Most geniuses are known in all human fields ... But unrecognized geniuses by all save a few who knows them exist ... Roger Boscovitch is no less genius than Newton but he was very less known... Gesualdo in music is a genius on par with many more well known others ... his genius is more visible today ... Only Monteverdi can exceed him with his creativity ... And only Bach can rival Monteverdi in genius anyway...But if we forgot who is the better, Gesualdo is unique in all musical history ... And in the short history of jazz which is now an earth global affair, many names deserve to be more well known who are not so well known in North America... One thing is sure, music moves us and the way music moves us at the end obey no rules and sometimes some music moves us more than it moves many others ... Music at the end is a personal affair more than a cultural race to win a prize... We cannot love all musical geniuses at the same level for each one of them ...We obey our heart and our heart is unjust or unwise he does not need any reason to love ... I discovered long time ago that i love musicians more than the musical language because each musician give its interpretation in its own unique way ... Understanding each musician is an ideal position , i am not qualified nor able to do it ... I love too much some to be fair and balanced ... It is why i appreciate frogman judgment so much ...
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I can definitely agree with this statement. And before I started to use Spotify to give a "test listen" I purchased a lot of CDs that I wished I had not. If an artist is relatively new, or an older/obscure artist that for whatever reason I was not aware of, I can listen to them first and then spend my hard earned money if I like the artist and his or her artistry. Been listening to the great Julian Edwin Adderley a lot lately, and "Cannonball" fits into @frogman the category of great recordings by great players in the quote. These 3 albums should be in every jazz aficionados library. Cannonball was "canonized" by the time he played on all three. And the rest of the personnel on all three,
Canonized:
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The drummers on all three albums I presented, Philly Joe Jones, Jimmy Cobb, and Art Blakey represent three of the greatest drummers in jazz history. The same could be said about the bass players, Paul Chambers on the Miles Davis sessions, and Sam Jones on Cannaonball’s. All four pianists as well represent the greatest in jazz, Red Garland on Milestones, Bill Evans and Wynton Kelly (1 track, Freddie Freeloader ) on KOB, and Hank Jones on Somethin’ Else. This song, from the album Milestones, features just the rhythm section as Miles and Cannonball "laid out" making this 1 track a trio recording. IMHO, it is one of the greatest trio recordings ever made. I love the exchanges between pianist Red Garland and bassist Paul Chambers starting at the 2:50 mark, followed by Garland and drummer Philly Joe exchanges for the remainder of the song.
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This drummer fits into this quoted category. A drummer, Louis Hayes, 86 years old and still with us, that is obscure to most but not us jazz aficionados. Hayes played on many of the great Cannonball Adderley session throughout the 60s. From a Cannonball 1960 live recording titled The Cannonball Adderley Quintet Live in San Francisco we can hear how talented Hayes, then just 23 years old, was on the kit. Cannonball’s intro announcement for the song Bohemia After Dark,
lets us know the treat we’re going to get by Louis Hayes’s drum exchanges and solo in the tune. From the album and also 2 awesome live videos of the same tune.
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I have been enjoying my "jazz on Sunday mornings" for over 3 hours now. Louis Hayes also plays drums on this great Horace Silver album, of which the 9th edition of The Penguin Guide to Jazz Recordings
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