Schubert, while I am not actually the biggest Sinatra fan either, I don't think very many would agree that Mel Torme was much better. While he did have a pleasant voice, that was about as far as it went, IMO. I would certainly stop short of calling him a great artist. He may have had a great voice, but for me, what little I have heard of him, he hasn't ever seemed much more than a crooner. IOW, he wasn't ever doing any thing very difficult or taxing with it, so that is why it kept sound good for his lengthy career. Johnny Mathis is a different type of crooner entirely, but same sort of concept vocally speaking.
I would be interested to hear what Frogman and Rok and Orpheus have to say, however, perhaps they will think me off base on this one? |
Frank was cooler than poor Mel.
Just received my best of torme on concord CDs. Less than $5 with shipping from Seattle goodwill via Amazon and arrived in less than a week. Nice. Looking forward to it. |
Maybe this album could make you change your mind? http://youtu.be/WoZZ08S4eywMy favourite would be Dean Martin, he makes me smile, always, Nat King Cole is something special, or Elvis, the King, but I could not say that Sinatra cant sing.I have one album of Mel Torme, but could not put him in the same category.Have you listened Johnny Hartman or Lou Rawls? |
Not quite sure what you mean when you say 'the band was always trying to keep up with him'. Love him or hate him, Sinatra was a consummate singer with perfect time. That word 'prat' (pace, rhythm, & timing) that seems popular today seems to be tailor-made for Sinatra. Check out 'Live At The Sands' feat. the Count Basie Orchestra (Basie doesn't 'try to keep up';), if you can't find anything worth listening to on this record, than Frank'll never be your guy! |
Maybe you jazzmen can help me out.
You are full of it comments are welcome.
I never liked to listen to Sinatra because it seemed to me that the band was always trying to keep up with him, as if it was their duty to pay homage to the King.
Not to mention I didn't much care for his voice.
I always loved to listen to Mel Torme because, to my ears, he sang like one of the instruments in the band, going so far as sing the overtones of an instrument in perfect pitch and time, something I never heard from anyone else.
To me Mel was a great artist, Frank a bad joke.
Honest comments will be appreciated,if I'm delusional say so. |
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Rok, this country has gone downhill all over; I lived in St. Louis city for over 30 years and I loved it. Now it's an insane asylum without walls, and I don't blame the inmates; they're doing whatever it takes to survive. Now I live in the burbs, but I got next to nothing for the house I enjoyed for over 30 years when I sold it. Unfortunately I know the reasons for this decline, and that makes it even worse; but don't blame us, they (Washington DC) run it while we run around in it.
Enjoy the music.
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Sad news this week. Buddy DeFranco passed away at the age of 91 this past Wednesday. A fantastic player he was the first clarinetist, and certainly more than anyone, to convincingly take the clarinet out of the "swing" mold and into bebop. https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=LmxHbHrpNHA |
O-10:
The Television series "Anthony Dourdain:Parts Unknown" is about a guy traveling the world exploring different foods. Christmas night, the show was about Mississippi and a second episode was about The Bronx, NYC.
I mention this because music was a major theme in both shows. He traveled to the black business area of Jackson. Also visited Oxford and the Delta. I discovered that Ellington, Basie and Calloway had all performed in the black area of Jackson back in the day. I had no idea.
The area is mostly deserted now. Ain't 'progress' grand? The main drag consists of a Church a Funeral home and one cafe. He also went to a few Juke Joints. That was a great thing to see. They are struggling to maintain the blues, but still jamming to the real thing.
He also ate at a place called "Doe's Steak house" in Greenville, Ms. It's right across the street from my Aunt's house. I have eaten there a few times. It has a certain amount of Fame. Was once mentioned on the 'Tonight Show'. The steaks are several inches thick and you can bring your own bottle. No veggies allowed!! Hot tamales were good also.
He also commented on the emptiness of the rural delta. He's right. Everyone has gone!
The Bronx:
Met the guy that started hip-hop 'music'. He is apparently a free man. I would have thought he would be in Rikers. He should be. Ate a lot of exotic food from the various immigrant communities.
Very depressing to my sensibilities. Gives a whole new meaning to phrase "The Bronx Zoo"!! The apartment complexes look like something out of the Eastern Block. Give me a shotgun shack in the delta anyday.
Anyway, they were both very interesting programs. Quite a contrast between the music scenes. If you get a chance, look for them.
After watching the Bronx program, I think I know what happened to Jazz. It was murdered by "Diversity".
Cheers |
To Jazz and Music lovers everywhere:
Merry Christmas to all, and to all, a Good Night!!
Cheers
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From your mouth to God's ear, Frogman.
Happy Christmas All ! |
Schubert, don't short change yourself; you are an astute listener. When I said that jazz doesn't need saving I meant it as a counter to the mistaken idea that quality jazz is not being produced by new young musicians; that the quality is dying. There will always be great new players and, as you point out the, players that are better than ever in some ways. The music will, of course, continue to evolve style-wise as it always has. The sad state of the size of audiences for jazz and higher art in general is a different matter. However, I don't agree that the audiences are ever-declining. There are many indications that, at the very least, the numbers have stabilized and there has actually been an increase over the last few years as well as other signs that are reason to feel positive about the future. Some interesting reading re the data: http://www.jazzartsgroup.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/JAITicketBuyerStudy_ExecutiveSummary.pdfhttp://arts.gov/sites/default/files/NEA-Research-Report-31.pdf |
Schubert, Another case of the wide road and the narrow road and the results? ;)
Merry Christmas! |
Frogman's little toe knows more about Jazz than I ever will, but as an outsider it seems jazz has ever greater players and a ever decreasing audience in the USA as a whole.
Minneapolis is among the most progressive of all American cities, believe it or not. the 24/7 jazz station here is owned by the Mpls. School Board.
Listening, its obviously an attempt to further the cause of jazz to the young black population of N. Mpls, I would guess as a counterpoint to hip-hop etc.
From what I can gather not having much luck. |
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Acman3, fantastic clips! Why some insist that jazz needs saving is beyond me. There is an entire crop of young players pushing the boundaries while keeping the connection to the past and it augers well for the future of the music. At the very least it's proof that something is in the works and we will look back and see this as important transition period. Personally, I look forward to what is around the corner. Thanks for the clips. |
O-10, Rahsaan was a genius. Unfortunately, playing two or three instruments simultaneously was perceived as gimmicky by some. That clip demonstrates that he was a virtuoso instrumentalist by any standard; double and triple tonguing, circular breathing and command of the extreme ranges of the instrument. He had it all while still projecting a "let it all hang out" musical attitude. An extraordinary performance. Thanks! |
Jazzbird (great handle), for that story alone I will have to check out the book. Â What TV viewers don't always realize is that sometimes the craziest, funniest and most interesting things happen behind the scenes, off- air. |
Alexatpos,
Very nice post. Â Dupree Bolton is a new one to me. Â Good player with a rather fiery musical vibe. Â Gildo Mahones I know from his work with Lambert, Hendricks and Ross. Â Another solid player who I believe is still active. Â Thanks for the contributions. |
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O-10:
EXCELLENT Clips!! Foxy Divas Galore! I put Kirk in my Amazon cart just now. That was really good. He was much more than a showman.
McRae did one of the better version of 'Besame' I have heard. The pictures of Carmen I remember from the album covers of LPs my brother owned. Along with folks like Dakota Staton. Funny how the album art sticks with you.
Ode to Billy Joe? When we first heard that, there was a debate as to whether Bobbie Gentry was black or white. Folks had never heard a white girl sing like that before. Same with the Righteous Brothers. Must have been a water-shed period in pop music. It is a great song, because it is authenic. Authenticity always stands the test of time.
We all had to retune our ears. :)
I would not have taken a 'duece' across any bridge like that one. That must have been the Tallahatchie River. I lived next to the other river. The mighty Mississippi.
Miss Horne was a Lady and a Fox until the very end. What a talent! What a Beauty! Loved her 'southern' accent.
Thanks for the clips
Cheers |
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O-10:
***** that's got to be the the best "Jazz Messenger" group ever;******
I agree. I never get over how easy it is, to see and hear such great players, just by clicking a few keys. What a wonderful technology!!
What effect, if any, do you think the change in policy towards Cuba, could eventually have on Jazz in both countries? Could it save Jazz in this country? Food for thought. An infusion of folks that understand rhythm, surely would not hurt. I hope all their great players aren't dead, like ours are.
Cheers |
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Since most of the brains hang around this post does anyone know of a Triangle speaker dealer? |
Rok, that's got to be the the best "Jazz Messenger" group ever; Lee Morgan and Benny Golson were at the top of their game along with the rest of the group, I had to look and play that one twice.
Enjoy the music.
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For those interested in the life of Rahsaan Roland Kirk, there is a biography called "Bright Moments" that I recommend.
One chapter mentions the take-over by Kirk and Lee Morgan of a Merv Griffin Show taping in 1968. |
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Aldo I have that Burrell's album, and do think that is great, Frogman's subject of great but now almost unknown players is more intriguing. So, I hope you all would not mind if I post yet another trumpet player, that has become 'famous' because of his obscurity. Oxymoron, I know. His name is Dupree Bolton, and here is link from a great album of Curtis Amy 'Katanga'. Ray Crawford is great too, as always. http://youtu.be/Oc6cJYn2T7Mhttp://youtu.be/RofQwbDY2YI |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ei1O04PlDHM |
When it comes to Christmas Music, I'm pretty conservative; this album by Kenny Burrel appeases both my conservative and jazz sides. I would imagine every aficionado who celebrates Christmas has this one in his collection; it cooks and projects the spirit of Christmas at the same time. Right now I'm trying to decide which is my favorite cut; so far it's between "My Favorite Things" and "Little Drummer Boy". Give it a listen and tell us your favorite cuts on this album, and share with us your most special Christmas Music of whatever orientation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7PfDn0KhtI https://www.youtube.com/user/edawworldEnjoy the music. |
Nice! Beautiful playing by Burns. Hint of a Lee Morgan influence and I love it when a player starts a solo without any ambiguity as he does at 1:50; a simple three note statement, concise and to the point as if saying "check this out". Amazing how players of this caliber are forgotten sometimes. Thanks! |
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Frogman, although it's possible Dave Burns is on some of my albums, I don't recall the name. Here's a real nice clip by Dave that indicates how good he was; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmeKhae2SKIEnjoy the music. |
O-10, agree about Jefferson. Love that Horace Silver tune "Filthy MacNasty". And what a great trumpet solo. After James Moody's exuberance everything relaxes with a beautifully tasty solo by someone who, as much as anybody, deserves the title of "most sadly unrecognized". Dave Burns was a great bebopper who few have even heard about. http://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=5ebeHafmsDA |
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Acman, I'm sorry about Mr. Wilson. After your post with "Lighthouse Blues", I realized his kind of "Pacific Jazz" is just what I'm looking for to fill that void of what we called "West Coast Jazz". I've also discovered, his arrangements with young new musicians is also acceptable with me, for example; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-sAl1m5cHAWhile the trumpet player is not "Fats Navaro", or Diz, he's getting there, and Gerald Wilson's music makes him all right with me. Enjoy the music. |
