Jazz for aficionados
To me one of the best jazz full albums . Paul Bley was an artist going to his own way , the boy from Montreal was unique . I knew him and he was also a nice guy . https://youtu.be/QIRIWgFdF7c |
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@schubert I do not think Bley "sucks." You're jumping to conclusions way too fast. I don't have enough experience with him to judge one way or the other at this point in my life. My specific question was, more or less, whether the first 2:00 is indicative of the entire, lengthy piece. I had lost any interest by that time and moved on. I haven't had enough time for music lately, and I decided to "cut bait" because what I heard seemed like "noodling." Sorry for being so bluntly honest. Truthfully, I could have stopped listening and not posted any reaction at all, but I was perplexed. Enjoy the music you love! |
At the risk of pissing off more afficionados than I already have in the last 24 hours, Tony Williams was a vastly better drummer than Buddy Rich. Rich was an amazing speed merchant and put together some impressive big band music (I still enjoy "Bouncing with Bud" on my 40+ year-old "direct-to-disk" vinyl). But Williams was the consummate musician. That's admittedly a hard sell, but, when I listen to Tony, I'm always spellbound with his comprehension of the compositions and the way he wove his playing into the other musicians' grooves. He complemented them, and they dug it. His playing was spatial, thoughtful, playful, musical - almost as if he was singing through his gear. It always comes back to what we individually view as "the best," I guess. Enjoy the music you love! |
Tony Williams was a vastly better drummer than Buddy Rich.Vastly?.... Using that word pisses me off. Stating your opinion that you think TW is a better drummer the BR would not piss me off. I'm sure you have heard the saying "Its not what you said but how you said it" That being said I am a big fan of TW as well as BR. I do not believe however, that one or the other is "vastly" better. |
pjw, these are a repeat of comments that I wrote last night in response to your question, but I just noticed the post did not go out for some reason. I think I fell asleep before hitting “post” ☺️. They are not in response to more recent comments here. ——— Sure, I’ve witnessed musicians get angry; myself included. It is like in any other profession, sometimes there are serious (musical) disagreements between individuals, personality clashes and occasionally it’s just that a particular individual is an ahole. Of course, being a professional means managing disagreements and personality differences and taking care of business, but sometimes its not possible; or, sometimes someone is just having a bad day. It happens. Obviously, given the state of the music business most will be reluctant to direct anger at the boss, but older more established players have been known to do just that, or even walk out. Re Buddy: I think Buddy Rich was an amazing drummer. I like much of his work, but not all. In some ways he was perhaps the greatest big band drummer ever……if one likes that aggressive, sometimes “balls to the wall” style of big band playing. I don’t. However, in the context of that style of big band music he was amazing. Personally, I prefer a more fluid and flexible style (Mel Lewis). Obviously, he was more than just a big band drummer, but to my ears some of that aggressive style carried over to his small ensemble playing. There is a saying among musicians that points out that, with some exceptions, a musician plays like the way he is as a person. His playing reflects the personality in one way or another. Sometimes it’s an obvious thing and sometimes subtle. In the clip that I posted previously of he and Mel Torme, Torme had to and ask him to play more quietly. ——— Re recent comments: I see no reason to take disagreements about favorite musicians personally. We all have preferences. I think Buddy Rich was an incredible drummer; but, according to my musical preferences and sensibilities I can think of other drummers that I feel were better musicians. I think that this is an important distinction. |
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I see no reason to take disagreements about favorite musicians personally. We all have preferences. I think Buddy Rich was an incredible drummer; but, according to my musical preferences and sensibilities I can think of other drummers that I feel were better musicians. I think that this is an important distinction.There are plenty of drummers I like a lot. Some more then others but not "vastly" VASTLY ADVERB
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For those who missed it in the link in frog's post on Rich giving a "pep talk" to his band after a performance. This comes from Jerry Seinfeld, not someone I'd expect to know about or talk about Buddy Rich. Found the link on the side of the Rich post. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWP77C4StLs |
Great! Had.not seen that. Thanks, Pryso. (Good to see you back, btw). Great list, pjw!———Very interesting! Scroll down to the seventh comment for who plays when. I believe it’s accurate. The picture is from a different year. All unique. All great in their way. For me, Max Roach. Why do I feel like marching when Buddy plays? 😊 https://youtu.be/LqsIcAVLsUU |
Mel Lewis talks about Buddy Rich. Great stuff!!!!! https://youtu.be/KTyxnHQ4VHQ (Btw, the host of this podcast (?) is Loren Schoenberg, Swing tenor player and big band leader, Jazz historian, Jazz dj, and Benny Goodman’s librarian for many years.) |
Couldn’t agree more with all those drummers all great, all different styles and subtleties. I’m 73yrs/old and loved jazz since I toddled across a number of my dad’s 78s breaking them almost making him cry. I must add one more to the list: Ginger Baker may he RIP. First heard him with Cream in live performance but his later years dedicated to traditional Jazz were an artistic pinnacle. He certainly could play as fast or faster and as technically complex as Buddy Rich but IMO he crushed Buddy beyond craftsmanship in pure artistry. |
In the spirit of Alex’s survey of little known players. One of the unsung heroes of the alto saxophone genuinely deserving wider recognition, Bob Mover has been a sideman with stars like Charles Mingus, Chet Baker and other greats. One of those guys that become local legends, but somehow their solo careers remain under the radar. I met him while in school in South Florida where he regularly played with another local legend, Ira Sullivan. Bob Mover, alto saxophone Kenny Barron, piano Bob Cranshaw, bass Steve Williams, drums https://youtu.be/wE20h-ZRMuU Very nice vocalist as well: https://youtu.be/h5I0_HDNIl4 Interesting commentary, especially for fans of the great Jaco Pastorius. Bob Mover talks about growing up and playing with Jaco. Great peeks and insights into the lives of Jazz players of his generation: https://youtu.be/FwObcgls4L8 ——— https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBE49F0327C8696A6 |
I just learned that these Bob Mover clips in previous post may not play unless you have YouTube “Premium” . Maybe they will this time. https://youtu.be/wE20h-ZRMuU https://youtu.be/h5I0_HDNIl4 |
When I said someone is brilliant it bothers me not that someone else thinks otherwise . I said sucks because it it just a word to me, we all have a right to like what we like .At least in music . What does bother me is to explain why I like them so much . IMO Music is one , perhaps THE great gift to man from God and I don’t , perhaps can’t, explain, what I just like what I like anymore than I can God. To me Jussi Bjorling has the most beautiful voice I ever heard. No doubt Pavarotti would get more votes , and deserve them . IMO Bach is the most profound composer who ever lived or will, if someone thinks it Mozart or Beethoven , that is up to them . In Jazz I like Mingus and Sunny Stitt the best. Of course all music lovers ,which we all are , love players and composers by the hundreds , perhaps the thousands, in all the genres we love . So be it , takes all kinds . {Except Heavy Metal lovers } https://youtu.be/yFtZutSgmmY |
To me Jussi Bjorling has the most beautiful voice I ever heard.Your choices make perfect sense if someone think about them... We are all different and because i like to discuss a bit too much, (my job was to teach by arguments) myself i like when someone contradict me though....It is an occasion to discuss... 😊😁😊 But some people are, like you, with "big heart" and dont like this so much and i understand why... Anyway, all our choices are "absolute" because they are motivated by our own history...And we must all learn WHY someone we know like something or not and we must understand why, because partaking something with him him make our world more vast and less small.... I like that when you say that Jussi Bjorling is the most beautiful voice ever, because it make me conscious of other possibilities of experience unknown to me and mysterious.... And anyway anyone with ears know that Bjorling is a very great singer.... Then why not listen to him with "others" ears than ours for an hour and learn something out of our world sometimes? Or discover surprizingly that perhaps ,yes, Bjorling is the most extraordinary voice, why not? For Bach you are more than right in my book.... And your choices of Mingus and Sony Stitt are very interesting and surprizing for me by far....I cannot wait to listen to these 2 in another "body" and "soul" than only mine this time....( yes it is possible! We all can listen with someone BESIDE ourself, with him in ourself) It is called learning..... Thanks for your great passion.....It is very important for all here.... |
I think that if you start to try to know why you like to know why you like this and that you become some body else. Not a good idea IMO . If you pray enough , Jesus will let you know. Can’t speak for other religions . I did know that when others said something about being somewhere in six months the old soldier in me laughed and said ONE month tops ! |
Okay Schubert, but “not Heavy Metal”? You seem to love classical. I have spoken to a number of symphony musicians and the overwhelming majority prefer Heavy Metal to other rock, rhythm and blues even Jazz. They site the technical difficulty, orchestral nature and musicality. While I appreciate Heavy Metal it’s not near the top of my favorite genre but definitely art as much as any music and the required craftsmanship is huge. It takes all kinds of aficionados. I don’t think god has anything to do with it. 🥰 |
Orchestral musicians prefer Heavy Metal?! Preferred to “rock, rhythm and blues even Jazz”?! Orchestral nature?! Not doubting your experience, but yours has been WAY different from mine. Maybe I don’t really know what Heavy Metal is. I’m open to that possibility. Could you post, or at least mention, some examples. I would appreciate it. |
You like it , I don't and what a classical musician might think is irrelevant to me, I listen to the complete thing .As the oldest person here I have a complete": I was there" when Big Band died and music came along that struck severe blows to American society . I think God has something to do with everything . |
Some Heavy Metal Jazz in a shoe box. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0bhyJTXoC4 Actually, heard a great song by Drummer Mike Clark and Michael Zilber, but it is not on the tube, so you get this. Schubert is correct! |
It is not that God exist or not, like some philosopher think about.... God is that part of us that "orchestrate" everything around us and in our lives....It is this part of us in which reside our freedom... This part of us exist if we use it....If not, there exist a visible nail but with an invisible hammer... 😁 Or we live in invisible shakles when we "externalise" this part of us in an " idol" with a collective name of our own making.... 😁 History of music reflect this relation also in reflecting the history of our own consciousness... Music, at the end, is no more only about our taste.... At the end..... 😊 For "heavy metal" like in any genre and styles, out of our own tastes, there is always EXCEPTIONS... I dont like heavy metal like shubert in general....But might i suggest "nightwish" with his first female singer... Tremendous poetic energy coming from the female voice of Tarja Turunen....I am in love with this album for example.... Never mind it is called "heavy metal".... There is a powerful poetic force to recount with that is nowhere to be found save for this group+Tarja Turunen ....They lost it when they lost her after some few albums... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__YBSu-tMWY I search less a "genre" in music than i search for great musicians now.... There exist musical giants everywhere but not in too numerous quantity... Is Bill Evans jazz? Or is Cher Baker jazz? Perhaps... For me not at all, there exist Bill Evans and Chet Baker and i discover " jazz" with them and this coach me toward others... Is Muddy Waters blues? For me no, there exist Muddy Waters singing and some others powerful musicians.... We can call them bluesman....But i know i love Muddy WEaters and few others like him.... I cannot say i love blues....Like i cannot say i love jazz... I dont even claim to love classical , i love Bach more than my own life....I love Scriabin in the same way.... Music = musicians..... And i dont like to group playing musicians in the prison cell of a style or a genre but it is necessary when we analyse musical culture and try to understand it for sure.... But at the end any great musician is a cosmos of his own.... «I is another»- Arthur Rimbaud |
Received my copy of the 8CD set of Lee Morgan at the Lighthouse. Very tight playing. If the first two CDs are an indication, Ain't got it, git it. Bebop at it's best. Surprisingly quiet audience for a 'Live' recording. Nothing like the typical LIVE Cannonball crowd. When Morgan introduces the next tune, the background is dead quiet. Only polite applause after each tune and some of the solo work. Must be the affluent crowd. Cheers |
I will look for those 8 ! frogman, I have known well about 20 symphonic musicians and thought of telling haircell I never knew one that ever went to any other genre other than Jazz , but I get tired . If it is not God that makes man the way you describe, I fear for you mahgisters , as the present Pope says ’’, The only people that don’t get to to heaven are those who don’t want to." Obviously you are a decent guy in the 150+ IQ club and I like to read your posts . Knowing the Christian God has infinite love he might have some pleasant home for those who don’t deserve the evil one, short of heaven but not bad . One reason I believe in God is I look back at 80+ years and I see there were AT LEAST 20 times in my life I have walked or driven away from death when that was IMPOSSIBLE ! |
Different experiences, different strokes. No disrespect intended. My son turned down an offer to play bass for Slipknot when the band was just forming. Didn’t like heavy metal much. Too bad. He would be well healed today. Loves Jazz and blues. Now lives and plays in NOLA. Including working with some members of the New Orleans Symphony. My objection is to dissing the genre though it doesn’t appeal to your ear or mine much for that matter. Still I can appreciate the skill and craftsmanship. I’m not a fan of opera either but I can appreciate the art form. I’m 75 and R. R. Kirk and the others were amazing and dear to my heart. Innumerable masters but there are some equally wonderful recent Jazz artists and Ginger Bakers later work after abandoning Rock and Roll were top drawer and far exceeded his R & R work. Love and Laughs |
@rok2id Well, well, well (as R.L. Burnside loved to say). Just look at how JFA has heated up recently. Not long ago you seemed to be lamenting that it had become a ghost town (paraphrasing of course). A fair amount of noise, but the best contributors keep on keepin' on. 'Nuff said. Good to see you posting again. An oldie I played today: Milt Jackson's "Be Bop." Not a top-notch effort, but it really hit the spot. How is it going over at BFA? |
Archie Shepp True Ballads Mingus Ah-Um Hubbard Hub of Hubbard (frontline mic'ing, They ignored the rhythm section) Paul Desmond Glad to Be Unhappy Quincy Jones Walking in Space Lester Bowie Fast Last Paul Motian Garden of Eden Clifford Jordan Glass Bead Games Charles Tolliver Live in Tokyo Miles... Relaxin', Miles Smiles, Jack Johnson |
My mother told me I had my ear to the radio for Big-Band since I was 3 . I remember I was about 20 when " Rock about the Clock" took my Big Band off the radio in a years time . Been angry every day since .Be dead if I did not hear this Beethoven Guy song by this Swedish on all places of the Armed Forces Radio in Vietnam , I saw there was beauty in the world , REAL beauty . Song was ": Fur Elise", Singer was Jussi Bjorling . |
Bobby Watson - Vincent Herring - Gary Bartz BIRD AT 100 Bobby Watson(alto sax), Vincent Herring(alto sax), Gary Bartz(alto sax), David Kikoski(piano), Yasushi Nakamura(bass), Carl Allen(drums) Smoke Sessions Records 2019 Excellent fold out packaging. Each Alto player gives his thoughts on Bird and his music and it's impact on Jazz. Very nice cover art. Recorded Live at SMOKE Jazz Club, NYC. Bird Lives (Jackie McLean) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JREQjL92Z8A Klactoveedsedstene (Charlie Parker) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU2OuXiSuKA The Hymn (Charlie Parker) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-ozPDcHPLI Yardbird Suite (Charlie Parker) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsvRpdLsIjw Cheers |
Milt Jackson's "Be Bop." Not a top-notch effort, but it really hit the spot. How is it going over at BFA? Maybe Bird At 100 will help. BFA is great for me. I am playing music I haven't played in Decades. I am surprised at how good some of these guys are, such as Percy Mayfield, Bobby King and Terry Evans, Booker T Laury etc.... and they all come from places I know. Cheers |
I have a thing for Ray Brown’s Trio, Exactly like you (featuring Gene Harris), Sweet Georgia Brown very smooth laid back Jazz, most of all of their music is great listening experience. Genie Harris Quart; To You and many others. Barry Harris Oscar Peterson Trio, has done many great songs. Bill Evans Trio Gerry Mulligan Quartet-One my favorite musicians. Miles Davis has few great tunes although some of his stuff good, yet some of it bores me. Just about everything of those listed above have produce great Jazz music. |
schubert, I know this is a jazz site, but since you mentioned Bjorling, I'll offer this. Admittedly I'm not much of an opera fan, although I enjoy several overtures. But years ago I heard a RCA CD, "Opera Goes To The Movies". That was a budget effort to rerelease several old recordings from their vast catalog of arias which were used in film soundtracks. One was Bjorling singing "Nessun Dorma". He sends a chill down my spine every time I hear that. I don't try to explain it, just admit how it affects me, the power and emotion. (Or did I just explain it?) And yes, I've heard a few versions with Pavarotti too. Good but no chill. We like what we most react to. |
What can I say. Her reputation extends into the world of Blues. Mary Jo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W65r805gjCY Cheers |
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Takes one to know what is what pryso1 . Here is the semi National Anthem of Sweden in his native voice . https://youtu.be/kXPPMYyJl-g And these clips are not as good as his real voice was /is ! |
