I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Alex, you're absolutely correct on that "Pike's Peak" album. Rok and I concurred that those other albums were real nice, just not outstanding. When you mentioned French and Belgium, that reminded me of Hercule Periot, the famous detective, who was always having to correct people that he was Belgium, and not French. It seems Rene Thomas is Belgium also. I really like that clip, I'll have to find and add it to my collection. I'm glad I can always come back to your post. That organ added a different touch that I liked.
"Bags Groove" had two musicians that are new to me; Sacha Distel on guitar, and Barney Wilen on tenor sax, they both sounded good, and Kenny Clark on drums kept it altogether. You have a very nice collection. Thanks for the fine posts.
Speaking of french (now I read that he is Belgian, hope nobody will be offended) guitarists, Rene Thomas came to my mind. Here are couple of links of albums that I have, hope you will find it intersting. This one is with Stan Getz, its been said that was recorded as a one time meeting, from 1971.album 'Dynasty'.....here is the link /youtu.be/MWcRtztr35A
Orpheus, I have several Dave Pike albums, and I think I can say that I like him. 'Pike's Peak' you have, with Bill Evans, I think that one deserves to be in any decent jazz collection. For Bossa Nova Carnival I can only say that on that album Pike plays with Kenny Burell and Clark Terry, to me its a very nice and subtle album, with gentle melodies. https://youtu.be/_30XmNMsKvY As for 'Manhattan Latin', I had it for years, did not listen it much, but couple weeks ago I had some guests at home and played it and to my surprise, it was great, so much that I checked again who plays there...Dave Burns on trumpet (mentioned him before as one of 'great underrated' with C.Corea, Don Friedman among ohers. Here is the clip...there are two sides, faster and more mellow...here are two clips https://youtu.be/ZTfHn8Fx_K4 https://youtu.be/ncBWglTCY7s 'Jazz for jazz set' is his album that I had first, very happy sounding album,nothing pretentious, I could imagine people having a party, listening to that groovy music... Again, with ocasional bursts of Clark Terry muted trumpet... .https://youtu.be/uEWZQvqN7Us https://youtu.be/IAsNJfhNagk 'Limbo Carnival' is with T.Flanagan, there are couple words that will tell you more under this clip... https://youtu.be/4fsxfmiFVDw https://youtu.be/4fsxfmiFVDw I am looking to buy one more his album, from that period.
You can also hear it online. Awhile back, I complained their jazz menu was too "stereotypical", but they've changed and have more of a varied menu now; it's quite listenable.
Learsfool, I have had a number of musician friends, and none of them tried to educate me in music. Rok, wanted to know something about music and you answered his questions, that's good.
FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME, I DO NOT KNOW SQUAT ABOUT MUSIC, NOR DO I WANT TO KNOW SQUAT ABOUT MUSIC; IS THAT CLEAR, FROGMAN, LEARSFOOL, AND EVERYONE ELSE ON "AUDIOGON".
As far as the answers to your questions - you both know very well that both Frogman and I have multiple times on this thread over the years offered very good suggestions about where and how to learn more about music. Anyone can easily go back through the thread and find them. You will also notice that each time, we were vilified for it, by the both of you. O-10 in particular seems very proud of his ignorance, and is even more adamant than Rok about his refusal to learn any more. I remember once, in a fit of despondency, I even posted that this suggested that he didn't really love music nearly as much as he thought he did, though I did retract that later. You both know all of this, yet you post those silly questions anyway - we know you are not really serious about it. I won't post any more appeals on this thread for you to educate yourselves, but I will correct gross errors, such as the comment O-10 made that if someone is performing three times a week, he doesn't need to practice. I had a good long laugh over that one. If I didn't laugh, I would have to cry over the serious lack of knowledge you have for what you love so much, and the misperceptions and misunderstandings this causes, that could be so easily fixed if you just made a little effort.
Meanwhile, I would be happy to talk about jazz, and learn about more great albums that I have never heard - I would love to relate much more about Julius Watkins, for instance, or other horn players in the jazz world, if anyone is really curious to know. If not, you can search for those albums I listed in my previous post if you want to hear him as a leader, though they are very hard to find - I have only heard about half of them ever, myself. I have really enjoyed this thread, and I keep coming back to it despite the silliness.
OK, I found that discography of Julius Watkins, for those interested. The Blue Note recordings I mentioned are simply titled The Julius Watkins Sextet, Vols. 1 and 2. Other albums he was the leader on:
French Horns For My Lady/Philips The Jazz Modes/Atlantic The Most Happy Fella/Atlantic Four French Horns Plus Rhythm/Elektra Mood in Scarlet/Dawn Smart Jazz for the Smart Set/Seeco
There are couple of others that he is the leader on that appear to be compilations.
*****
Do you think your questions will get answered?*****
They say doing the same thing, over and over, and expecting a different result each time is a good definition of insanity.
I ain't crazy. So no, there will be no answer, there never has been one, and for a good reason.
That reason is, the real 'problem' here is that some people just resent not being treated as Oracles. Oracles were beings in human form, thru whom the gods spoke. No discussion, No disagreement, and no opposing opinions allowed. You just listen.
This is in spite of the fact that we always deferred to their musical expertise on matters of an academic or factual nature. But even so, on occasion, we still had the temerity to think for ourselves. To express our opinions. We just weren't submissive enough. It's as Simple as that.
Rok, you asked the questions at 02:09PM and I re-posted your question at 03:56 PM,and it is now 08:25PM. When are we going to get answers? I'm patient, I can wait till the swallows come back to Capistrano, or the cows come home, whichever comes first.
*****
You would have a better chance of changing the mind of a creationist regarding biological evolution.******
Or changing the minds of audiophiles that can 'hear,' fuses, or cable lifters, or speaker wire, or bricks on top of their CD players, or green magic marker on their CDs, or....I'm beginning to feel 'unclean', so I think I'll stop now. You get my drift.
BTW, I always consider these beliefs held by Audiophiles when listening to comments or advice from people on this forum. Puts them and their thoughts in proper perspective.
Rok, I liked Liz Wright; her lyrics to the songs were deep beyond her years, whether she wrote them or not; while that's important, the fact that she chose them is most significant. She'll go a long way.
Seems like I have seen or been in this movie before. A certain person throws a hissy-fit, and storms off the thread. Then we have all these previously unknown and unheard 'supporters' 'coming forward' to say things like "you did your best", "they are beyond help", "why do you even bother", "you fought the good fight", etc........ oops almost forget the most dreaded of all "they are arrogant".
Now I have asked this question before, with no answer. There is never an answer. But, since you are sort of new as a poster I thought maybe you could answer this question.
Exactly what is it that certain people are trying to teach us, that we, because of our ignorance and / or arrogance just don't seem to get?
If I knew the answer to this, perhaps the whole thread would be different and more civil. Please answer if you feel you can. And in DETAIL with examples.
Rok, I can't (or maybe just won't) try to answer your 'unanswered question', except to say that I thought that your posts as well of the posts of Orpheus were, far more often than not, more about yourselves and your perceptions/opinions, than the music itself.
Sharing an opinion with others can be a fine thing, but confusing your opinion, and/or valuation, of the music itself, or even a specific performance, with something absolute, is too god like for me to want to endure. Nothing new here. I said as much 3 years ago.
If I were a musicologist I would gladly converse with one. Not being one I would still enjoy talking with one and trying to gain some knowledge. If I were a musician I would love to discuss my musicianship with other musicians. I might have more difficulty with this conversation as I have no shared experience to begin with. This may be why I like/appreciate Frogman and Learsfool - they are both generous of spirit and their time in trying to inform others.
But I'm neither of the above, only a listener. I can share with others only my appreciation for that which I have heard, or perhaps for what I would wish to hear. And that is enough for me. :-)
One thing to keep in mind about this composer and other Russians from his era. Their music had to meet the approval of Stalin and the Communist Party (NKVD). A bad review could be deadly.
*****
One of the things that I most enjoy about both Frogman and Learsfool is their continuing interest in the music itself without a chronological anchor. A trait I think most musicians share.*****
I think the opposite. All musicians have a chronological anchor. Which is different from being stuck in the past. Some may venture way out there (miles, trane, mingus) but they always knew where they and the music came from.
The problem might be that many modern player's anchor point is only a few years ago. Long after the Golden age.
*****
Rok, If you are interested in 'jazz' vocalists you might be interested in the music of Laverne Butler, Rene Marie, and Mary Stallings. All contemporary vocalists. All have recorded on the MaxJazz label. *****
I first became aware of Rene Marie when she performed on the Jazz at Lincoln Center Christmas CD/DVD. (Big Band Holidays) She did "is dat you Santa Claus" Loved it.
The others I will certainly check out. I have a lot of Shirley Horn. I need to revisit her. Sometimes you have gems on the shelf and don't even realize it.
Seems like I have seen or been in this movie before. A certain person throws a hissy-fit, and storms off the thread. Then we have all these previously unknown and unheard 'supporters' 'coming forward' to say things like "you did your best", "they are beyond help", "why do you even bother", "you fought the good fight", etc........ oops almost forget the most dreaded of all "they are arrogant".
Now I have asked this question before, with no answer. There is never an answer. But, since you are sort of new as a poster I thought maybe you could answer this question.
Exactly what is it that certain people are trying to teach us, that we, because of our ignorance and / or arrogance just don't seem to get?
If I knew the answer to this, perhaps the whole thread would be different and more civil. Please answer if you feel you can. And in DETAIL with examples.
My POV is a bit more simplistic perhaps, but I believe most folks are anchored to music they found appealing during their youth and unless they developed a serious interest in a particular idiom they, at least subconsciously, resist the progression this music takes . Some resist and reject this evolution and dismiss it. Some enjoy and encourage this progression, more food for their brain I think.
I came to jazz when I was an adult so I had no fixed opinion about the value of music from the introduction of recorded jazz from any particular period. Blessed, perhaps with this ignorance, I was free to explore/like/reject music from all of the various periods and styles of jazz.
What I found, and it was an experience I had in dealing with the evolution of classical music from the 'classical' period thru the 'modern' period was that each new period required some attention and, more importantly perhaps, just passive acclamation, to the form and the sounds.
I was in my Beethoven period and dating a woman musician employed by a symphony orchestra. She was helping me with my Beethoven experience and casually mentioned that she most enjoyed playing Shostakovitch's music. I listened once and was baffled by all the noise. I didn't listen again for perhaps 10 years. Now I've blown through his music (an a lot of other from his period) and have learned to accept and or reject his compositions based on nothing more or less than my appreciation.
I think what has saved me from anchoring myself to Beethoven's period was nothing more or less than a native curiosity. I feel fortunate in my approach to Jazz. I feel no more reluctance in listening to the music of , for example, Ron Carter, Brad Mehldau, Charlie Haden, Roy Hargrove or Joshua Redman than I would to the music of Henderson, Jones, Getz, Evans, Benny Carter, Peterson, (and all of the famous players from the 50's, 60's and 70's).
I think there is nothing wrong with 'personal feeling and experiences' controlling your personal enjoyment of the music but, like you, I fail to find it a credible basis for argument, or any valuation for that matter.
One of the things that I most enjoy about both Frogman and Learsfool is their continuing interest in the music itself without a chronological anchor. A trait I think most musicians share.
I apologize in advance for this wordy, self absorbed perhaps, explanation of my views.
Rok, If you are interested in 'jazz' vocalists you might be interested in the music of Laverne Butler, Rene Marie, and Mary Stallings. All contemporary vocalists. All have recorded on the MaxJazz label. I'm not sure how well known they are (on this forum anyway) but they are certainly well worth knowing! Sorta like Etta Jones. And Etta James. They sure won't put you to sleep.
I like Karren Allyson well enough, but when I want more relaxed jazz vocals I seem to migrate to Shirley Horn. She excels IMHO. Plays a pretty good piano too.
FWIW. Just to show you what you are (not!) missing by my reluctance to contribute to this thread.
Speaking of Jazz divas. Miss Wright made the cover of Downbeat in Jan 2016. This CD, (Dreaming Wide Awake) made it to number one on the Contemporary Jazz Charts. For what that's worth.
She is sort of hard to put in any box. Sings blues and gospel also. From Georgia, sang in the church, father was a preacher, College in Atlanta. So far so good.
Then near disaster. Attended the New School in NYC and also 'studied' in Canada. But, she seems to have survived the experience with her musical sensibilities intact..
Alex, I previously said that I needed a break from this thread. Your post is, in many respects, the best vacation of all. That was a fantastic post and I agree point for point; an extremely insightful post which is much of what I had hoped this thread would be in part; and, yes, per the OP. Thank you! However, I do need a break so as not to succumb to the temptation of pointlessly responding to some other, not nearly as thoughtful, comments. I will address your great post in (hopefully) short order. Perhaps you, yourself, or others can get the ball rolling exploring your comments.
Ohnwy61, you are probably correct. Alex’s post portends well, however, and there are always better and smarter ways to take the high road. Time will tell.
Whenever I read the comments section of a major new story I always regret it and come away with an "unclean" feeling. Will I ever learn to not click on the comments section? This thread is the Audiogon equivalent. Frogman, I applaud your effort to fight the good fight, but it's time to stop. I have never experienced a more concerted effort by a few individuals to not learn what they do not know. Logic, knowledge and experience have their limits. You would have a better chance of changing the mind of a creationist regarding biological evolution.
There is expression that says that all art was modern, in one point in time. Process of reception of a 'new art' was always hard and history of any art is full of examples when some, at first scorned, art form has become recognised and valued. There is no surprise to me that same discussion is held here, the principal question beeing to define what is 'jazz jazz' music , in opposition to music that was created couple decades later and by opinions of some, does not deserve to be called by the same name. Setting or recognising the standards who could enable us to understand music better proved to be much harder, because the discussion became somehow irrational and its emphasis was never about the principles of music, neither about social or cutural era that influenced or shaped some particular form, instead the 'arguments' were drawn on basis of personal feelings and experiences. Even if one (or many) wants to declare that 'having soul' is the most important factor which will determine which music has a right to be called 'jazz jazz', I belleive that he owes us an explanation what 'soul' is, in music anyway. So far I have not read any such attempts. If this 'discussion' is going to continue I would certainly like that any attempt in 'proving' any point is concentrated on confronting the thoughts instead of persons. As for my opinion,on this subject, or better, I should say taste, if anyone cares, is that I prefer music that was created up untill lets say 1965. Later, maybe only if the style hasnt changed much, usually made by same protagonists. In the same time I am very curios to understand what someone very knowledgabe ( like Frg.and Leafr.) prefer about new expressions and why they value the idea behind the music more than its aestetchics (correct me if I am wrong) Also, I think, by learning and later perhaps knowing or recognising 'their point' can open the whole new world in appreciating the music that now stays beyond our understanding.
Learsfool , somewhere during our discussions, I determined that our mystery jazzman was a organist. I can't remember when or where, and I never was able to be 100 percent sure, but somewhere through the years I decided he was an organist. Does it change your opinion of the possibilities of O-10's magic summer?
Well, now that our so-called, 'condescending teachers', have had their say, lets let the 'students' speak.
First I would like for our OP to list all, or at least some of the things he has learned from The Frogman and Learsfool. Learned about music.
I will do the same. I'll go first. Acman3 feel free to weigh in also.
(1) I learned about the functions / duties of a section leader / Principal in a Symphony Orchestra from Learsfool.
(2) From Learsfool, I also learned a bit about the financial side of Symphony Orchestras.
(3) From Learsfool, I learned a bit about the World of Orchestra Conductors. How they are hired, how does a person train to be one etc.....
From The Frogman, I was 'taught' That Stravinsky ranks right up there with Mozart as a Composer. This went in one ear and out the other.
The Frogman also informed me that a certain clip of the Trumpet player, Tom Harrell, that I called 'noise', was actually the 'perfect' bebop solo. I have never in my life ever heard or read of any performance by anyone being called 'perfect'. I took that for what it was worth.
That's about it for me. Not a lot after three years. Looking forward to hearing what all the other 'students' learned from these self-appointed, 'teachers'.
I think they are both full of themselves. But that could be just one man's opinion.
Newbee did make a wonderful suggestion to The Frogman. Why not start your own thread, then you can teach all of the 'pedestrian' Jazz Lovers of Audiogon.
BTW, If you have a few moments, could you list some of that 'misinformation' that O-10 and I put out? Thanks.
Wow. First, to Newbee - I'm sure that you probably perceive me as being more condescending than Frogman, and I would totally understand that. His justification that we are teachers by nature and therefore cannot stand by in the face of misinformation could not be better stated.
O-10 - first, I agree with you 100% that Clark Terry's Color Changes is a really great album. Julius Watkins was an amazing guy. Not your typical horn sound, but he could play. There are a couple of albums he made as a leader, believe it or not, but unfortunately they are very hard to find on LP because they happen to be Blue Notes, so the Japanese collectors go nuts and drive the prices up to outrageous amounts. The group is called the Julius Watkins Sextet on those albums, I'm sorry I don't remember the titles. Too tired to type more about Julius Watkins at the moment, but if you like, I have MUCH more to say about him - very interesting life he led. I also have a discography of his somewhere, so I could look up those album titles on it, now that I think about it. One of the most hilarious albums he made, by the way, is called French Horns For My Lady - if you ever see that in a record store, buy it (Philips label)! More about that another time, if wanted, too.
OK, there was one comment that I cannot let pass. "Since he was performing three nights a week, there was absolutely no need for some kind of ritualistic practicing." No, no, no, no, no. This is dead wrong. As Frogman and I have both explained, one MUST maintain one's chops to keep one's playing level to a certain standard. So if your friend was not practicing that summer, that doesn't mean he couldn't play/perform - but it does mean that he was nowhere near his top playing level. There is absolutely no way on earth he could have been, simply because the muscles must be kept in top shape. Just like an athlete's, believe it or not, except we use much weaker muscle groups that have to last for much longer careers - you have to put in your daily routine, we call it, though it is not necessarily ritualistic, most of us vary it quite a bit. There are definitely about 20 minutes worth of "warm-up" type exercises that I do in exactly the same way every day, but beyond that there would be another 20 minutes worth of exercises that would be varied depending on what type of playing I am doing at work, or have coming up in the near future, or even distant future sometimes. And if we don't practice, that is the same thing as an athlete not working out - they get out of shape VERY quickly, and so do we. Again, I am not saying this means you can't play (though for a professional brass player, you would never take an entire summer off, it would take a too long to get back to where you were - the most I have ever taken is one month off, and it took about three weeks after that to get back to top shape) - you are nowhere near your top level. You have mentioned that your friend was very close to the end of a long life and career, too, which means that his playing was almost certainly not at his peak anyway. Just like with the athletes, this is one very unfortunate thing about being a musician - your mind and your musicianship are more highly developed than ever, but you can't do some of the stuff you used to do anymore. I am just young enough to not quite be at that point in my career yet, but I am fast nearing it. I'm at least several years behind Frogman in age, possibly even a decade. I hope to have another twenty years in me, though it may end up being more like fifteen - as a brass player in particular, you never know for sure.....
Newbee, your comments directed at me are valid. While I am not sure that I would characterize my motivation as condescending (certainly not in intent and as unbiased as I could hope to be), I can certainly understand why they could be viewed that way. I have struggled with this issue practically from the beginning of my participation in this thread and you are also quite correct that I may have underestimated just how transparent the motivation of some may be to others. Here’s the struggle:
Musicians are teachers by nature and that makes it almost impossible to stand by silent in the face of misinformation. That may seem grandiose to some, but it’s simply the way it is. Others’ motivation may be transparen to others, but motivation is not nearly as potentially misleading as bad and incorrect information. However, you are correct that the bullshit and rancor can only detract from what the thread may have to offer; limitations and all. So, my options are to simply ignore the incorrect information presented as fact or stop participating. The first option won’t work; can’t do that. So, while I am not prepared to say that I won’t visit this thread ever again, I think it’s time for a break from it. Thanks for the candid commentary.
Karrin Allyson!! WOW!! You guys hit back to back home-runs.
Did you noticed the instruments on 'So Danco Samba' were very similar to the Dave Pike clip, but much better playing on Trumpet, Guitar, and much, much better Vibe playing. Love that Brazilian music.
'Everything must Change' just had me motionless. Fantastic. Being from KC is good. Great Jazz town.
Now this is the kind of 'New Music' that increases your collection. Always good to meet new talent. At least new to me.
I've got that on record, with a big pretty picture of Randy; that's the only thing I miss about records. Her voice is smooth as silk, and the music behind her is fantastic on "Give Me The Night". That always reminds me of Atlanta, "The New York of the South", it was a fun town during the disco era.
I've been hearing some new female vocalists on this jazz station, but I have to get their play list in order to know who I'm listening to; they just play one song after another without announcing who it is. But pickings from the known female vocalists is slim.
Randy was a nice change of pace for me, it doesn't seem like she's been around that long.
Rok, I was thinking those same thoughts before I read your post. Nice easy listening music, but not nice enough for me to rush out and buy it. After acquiring the best jazz of two decades, we're kind of hard to please.
I like to listen, and then go through Nica's book, it seems as though I'm looking at old friends. As a matter of fact I've been looking at some other photo books, but after Nica's I feel that I would be disappointed.
Clark Terry's "Color Changes" is not for casual listners, it's to be savored, like the kind of cognac you pour in a brandy snifter, it's got some heavy personnel; Clark Terry - trumpet, flugelhorn Yusef Lateef - tenor saxophone, flute, English horn, oboe Seldon Powell - tenor saxophone, flute Julius Watkins - French horn Jimmy Knepper - trombone Tommy Flanagan - piano Budd Johnson - piano (track 6) Joe Benjamin - bass Ed Shaughnessy - drums
Julius Watkins was with Miles and Gil Evans, it's not often you hear French horn in jazz. I like Yusef Lateef best on those strange kind of flutes he plays.
I'm not quite sure where we go from here, but I've been hearing some interesting female vocalists on the jazz station. If you think of anything, post it.
Listened to David pike. The entire album. Hard to find fault with Brazilian music. This was pleasant enough, but nothing exceptional. Clark Terry was very subdued. If you weren't paying attention you may not have noticed he was there.
If they don't really bang on the vibes, the notes will seem to run together. Guess Hampton and Bags have spoiled me.
One thing about finding new music. No only has it got to be new to you, but it has to be exceptional. I liked this music, but I would not feel compelled to order it.
Speaking of Clark Terry, I was going to post him today, but the 'Ruckus' erupted and I was distracted. Today's Listen was supposed to be -- 'COLOR CHANGES'.
Well, if my leaving meant that you would participate, I will gladly leave. I can always read the thread. I don't have to post. I did leave once, and waited on the deluge of new posters. Nothing happened.
I wish there were more posters, if I am the problem, I'm out of here.
Rok, FWIW I stated several years ago my reasons for not actively participating in this thread. You can locate them and refresh yourself if need be. But the short version is this - I find it unrewarding to participate in a conversation with anyone who willingly ignores the difference between fact, fiction, and opinion, for any reason, but especially so when it is clear that their motivation is nothing more than that of ego reinforcement.
I am always amazed at the number of people who claim they depend on The Frogman to enlighten them about Jazz, but never make any input themselves.
They never ask any questions. Never make any comment, except to criticize the OP and me. Always In the sense that the OP and I are keeping The Frogman and Learsfool from educating them. We stand in their way!!
Well, this is an open forum. You have as much access to our gurus as anyone else. Nothing to say in over three years! How much interest in Jazz could they really have?
But I think they are like comets of doom, that come this way every so often. They will soon return to the land of audiophiles, never to be seen for another three years.
Allow me to state the obvious. 99.999% of what The Frogman and Learsfool post on this thread is in response to something or some subject introduced by The OP or myself. There are several more regulars that post less often.
I don't know where we would be, without The Frogman and Learsfool's knowledge and their ready willingness to share it.
I do know where we would be, if this thread depended on someone like newbee. Like, nowhere man, nowhere.
*****
who's motivation is as transparent as Rok and Orpheus. They are what they are, it is readily apparent to the most casual observer, and they are not going to change.******
Could you elaborate? This is not an 'audiophile' thread, here we say what we mean. No need to beat around the bush. I look forward to you explaining my 'motivation' to me.
I also agree with O-10 ,that his mystery musician friend , after years of practice , could hit a time where he was firing on all cylinders and also due to playing regularly , was able to move forward without practice.
How long would that " zone"last ??????????
O gets a little cranky sometimes, but he would not make it up.
Purple panther piss; I had to look that up, after I stopped laughing.
Frogman, FWIW, there is something condescending, I think, when some one feels that he needs to protect jazz history and it's fans from misinformation put forward by some folks, especially those who's motivation is as transparent as Rok and Orpheus. They are what they are, it is readily apparent to the most casual observer, and they are not going to change.
Its too bad that all of the great information that you and Learsfool can convey to the more pedestrian jazz lovers will be lost unless a new thread is created. The value of this thread is greatly diminished by its shear length and the rancor. Trying to find the gems is, forgive me, nothing less obnoxious that looking for pearls in pig shit. Let Orpheus and Rok alone to their conversations in this thread should they continue to wish to do so (and I don't know why, or for how long, they would).
O-10 it is not a good idea to bring personal relationships into this thread. You knew this player and he was your friend. The rest of us didn't know him, and we look at him in an entirely 'objective' manner.
When I posted a guy I went to school with, you said he sucked. I didn't protest because I always thought he was somewhat of a noise-maker myself.
As pertains to all outstanding disagreements, I have declared victory, so, as Jafant says, Lets get back to the music.
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