Jazz for aficionados
Improvisation is the least important or vital element of Jazz. Jelly Roll Morton said 'Jazz is a style, or way, of playing music'. The emphasis on improvisation in at the root of this so-called modern Jazz(noise). Just play any thing, make any noise, no one can criticize it. After all, he is improvising!!! Cheers |
nsp. Sonny Criss is still new to me, that's because I've been listening to East Coast all my life, and West coast has an entirely different approach to the music, that makes it new. Sonny Red with Blue Mitchel and Grant Green is nice. Shirley Scott and Lockjaw are always a good listen. None of those albums are in my collection, maybe that's where I need to start. |
Pryso, for the most part Bill Evans is too introspective for me, but I liked the way he played with Miles and just about everybody else; he made they're music sound better. Is it improvisation or total chaos? That's the question that pops up lately. I've been hearing chaos that supposed to be improvisation. While Rok stated "modern jazz", I think he meant "most current" as of yesterday; there is a difference between chaos and improvisation. |
Johnny 'Guitar' Watson: More Funk than Blues. Blues: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGIE28q3fEA should have gone on to Mexico. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0aIjyX7vwI Cheers |
Just wanted to say, that, for me, music often serves as companion, for my most subtle thoughts and feelings. Sometimes I like to think that that is the reason I have a large selection of music, to be able to find 'that particular song', for some 'particular moment'... But, than again, sometimes I just stand in front of a wall of cd's and think that I have 'nothing' to listen to.... Of course, than I flatter my self, thinking that I am still growing.... I would not try to form any definitions about jazz, but as in any art form, definitely there are style forms that are dependent on time, place and on individual craetions. We all have our favourits and I guess we should try to broad them, by sharing and perhaps learning about 'new' (or old) ones... Arguing which one is 'real' or 'better' is a kind of fun, but childish... |
Alex, what I have been stating for sometime now is that the music is a reflection of "current society", and you can simply look at all the big cities in this USA and see how flawed they are, and this is what current music is reflecting. There is absolutely no concern for humanity, only money, and the politicians see that it all goes to the richest 1%, minus they're commission. I know this is completely off point for what you're saying, but that doesn't matter, it still exists, (flawed society from the top down) and nothing will change it. Most people who enjoy music, are trying to get as much pleasure out of their collection as they can, including me, but I can't stop thinking about how it came to be or what's coming next. Like it or not, currently, what's passing for improvisation is total chaos without much musical content. |
Orpheus, as you may see or hear from posts that I put, my choice of muisc is probbably closer to yours or Rok’s taste of music. But, that does not mean that I consider my choice to be the ’right’ one ,its just mine. Of course that I am happy when that is recognised or shared but I would never exclude others if they share a different opinion or taste. I believe that we can all learn or at least hear something new or different from others, no matter if we like it or not, at some moment. This is an open forum and I guess its a friendly one? In a todays world (and forum reflects that too) where so few people listen jazz, why should we make it even smaller by forcing some ’rules’, about which music is ’right’ or not? I believe what you say, about society that you (we all, I guess) live, that is a subject for a whole new theme, about post modern society and its trends...not only in ’jazz’. ’Improvisation’ is a last problem that concerns me, when I think or look at that picture... https://youtu.be/D9ArphpVxtg https://youtu.be/maOtX4tXyb4 https://youtu.be/M5GRpA5H3CI I mean, if a guy from Croatia (I bet not everyone here knows to find it on a map) can post some really 'deep' jazz or if a band from Finland can sing 'Sweet home Alabama' with Red Army choir, than that for certain shows that music should have no boundaries... |
This was done right in your capitol city. You don't need no stinkin' Leningrad Cowboys. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ymwi61i9cX8 Cheers |
I think that Frank Zappa may shared some light on the subject... https://youtu.be/xP4wsURn3rw https://youtu.be/zgVUei2853A Rok, since all participants here share, more or less, love to jazz music, I just think that splitting hair about what excatly is 'real' jazz is quite counterproductive to forum. But, than again, I may be wrong. So, I will say it again, lets vote? Who is in favour of posting music in limited time frame of lets say '55 to year '65? (my favorite, by the way) I certainly and loudly 'vote' against such limitation... |
Alex, when the vast majority of people who like widely differing genres of music, besides jazz are saying the same thing, it's time to listen. I don't know for how long now, but "all" genres of music have become crap. I hear this same thing on other forums; while it's for sure I'm not an expert on Country and Western, they seem to be saying the same thing as I am about jazz, the more recent, the worse the music is. If I notice the same thing over and over, there must be something to it; the more current the music, the more it sucks, and that goes for all genres. Regardless what we are saying, none of us are coming up with good examples of current music; as hard as Acman is trying, his current music is a flop, but he still posts very good music that's not so current. While I am not the judge of what is and what is not, my judgments seem to blow in the direction of the prevailing winds, and after all the talk, the music you post seems to back me up. |
orpheus10 Agree with your comment of " no concern for humanity, only money , and the politicians see it goes to the 1% , minus their commision. Not sure if and how it relates to music and jazz specifically, but for sure it is a most accurate statement concerning our political system. I really liked that cut you posted by John Handy & Ali Akbar Khan. I think this next cut is similar in nature and thought you might like it: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ax4K-3UZOzg Eddie "Lockjaw" Davis cut many albums in that style.Search them out. Are you familiar with Arnett Cobb and Jimmy Forrest? http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q3lBs31Pa-Q http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hywihcfUOYY |
There are at least 9 people, who like Mr. Shipp’s Zero Recording. 9 reviews ,of which 4 out of 5 stars is the lowest score. Several 4.5 and 5. https://www.allaboutjazz.com/zero-matthew-shipp-esp-disk-review-by-karl-ackermann.php https://www.allmusic.com/album/zero-mw0003141127 https://www.allaboutjazz.com/zero-matthew-shipp-esp-disk-review-by-mark-corroto.php https://www.popmatters.com/2018-belongs-to-matthew-shipp-2561813848.html https://spectrumculture.com/2018/03/21/matthew-shipp-sonic-fiction-zero-review/ http://jazztrail.net/blog/2018/2/19/matthew-shipp-zero-album-review http://www.freejazzblog.org/2018/07/four-from-matthew-shipp.html https://jazzandblues.blogspot.com/2018/03/matthew-shipp-zer0-esp-disk-2018.html http://jazzchill.blogspot.com/2018/03/new-releases-matthew-shipp-zero-ivan.html |
All the music of this kind has been written and played, and rewritten and replayed. You can't do better or even often not worse. We need new music, a breakthrough, at least comparable to Miles's and McLaughlin's seventies. I agree with the thought that jazz is mostly a way to play music. It is also a way to listen to this music. Then there will be a resonance. Improvising is difficult and one needs to have a great 'sense of risk' to do it right. |
some new and not so new music....perhaps not the new style....with some of the old guys...and some young ones... https://youtu.be/jhicDUgXyNg https://youtu.be/CsbWsKvyQTU https://youtu.be/cwYAeUpH1NM https://youtu.be/mVJjmyFfuts https://youtu.be/eB4oFu4BtQ8 |
Nsp, we have mentioned Cobb and Forrest, again, one album that you may like. On guitar is Calvin Newborn, brother of pianist Phineas J.R. https://youtu.be/-wkiXzau3sg |
A word is defined by how it is used, the word "soul" as used in jazz, is almost sacred. It's used to describe the sound of the very few who project it. The sound of soul can be projected in song or instrumental music. When you hear it, the sound resonates within the depths of your being. No need to understand the language, people from around the world experience the same profound emotions when they lose the love of a lifetime, and they instinctively know when such an event is projected through song or instrumental music. Ray Charles, "The Sun Died"; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpR8UrMQvnU The words don't tell the story half as much as the sound of Ray Charles voice. "The Sun Died"; there is no life without the Sun. Yesterday, he was in paradise gazing into her beautiful eyes. Bobby Timmons is the unspoken master of instrumental soul; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNjRQo-zpKA&list=RDEMwn1l3d6X9Dhg9J52Gz5zMg&start_radio=1 That piano and the music says it all; each note makes a profound statement about down and out, and unable to do anything about it, except "Moan". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNjRQo-zpKA&list=RDEMwn1l3d6X9Dhg9J52Gz5zMg&start_radio=1 This song projects someone who is too tired to walk, but for whatever reason he has to keep going. |
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Hank Mobley, Mobley's Message, 200g mono LP; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCrChuzeM24&list=PLrndCwx3CtWPc0z2GjIQf-WY8a20EvaRB |
I'll merely toss this into the ring for discussion, then stand back. Likely that posters here will argue over whether these is an actual resurgence or not. https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/whats-behind-the-new-jazz-resurgence-703853/ |
*****“I feel like there are more reasons to be excited about improvised music today than at any time during my 41 years on the planet,” the jazz critic Nate Chinen tells Rolling Stone. ***** Interesting that he used the term 'improvised Music', and not 'Jazz' Future historians will get it right. They will know the start and end date of Jazz. We are too close at this time in history. Too close to see the demarcation lines clearly.. Cheers |
This is to correct my mistake on Bobby Timmons; This song projects someone who is too tired to walk, but for whatever reason he has to keep going. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTMVmHUgzEs |
What is it about human nature that causes some of us to see only what we want to see in order to buttress our personal points of view? Why, in spite of all the great advances in medicine, life expectancy, personal liberties, general world wide standard of living and on and on, do some of us insist on seeing the present state of affairs as so much worse than in the past? Of course real problems still exist and there still is much room for improvement; but, really?! I would like to read a good answer to why it is meaningful and/or fruitful to continually decry the death of jazz (as anyone of us might define it), the whole while putting down and shutting ourselves off to potentially great music simply because it is different stylistically from what is our personal musical comfort zone; especially in the face of the obvious time proven and verifiable tendency of jazz to evolve. Just what is accomplished other than to stroke our personal ego for being so “uncompromising”; especially when so many others feel differently and make an informed case for a different viewpoint? No other than the great Duke Ellington said that he didn’t like the word “jazz” because it is so limiting. This is all such a tired argument here that it almost doesn’t deserve any further comment. There is actually little that is “interesting” about the use of the term “improvised music” in pryso’s linked article. That is a term that is used by some jazz heads to refer to simply “jazz”; there is no other real or implied meaning or suggestion. The reason some use that term is simple: contrary to a recent assertion here improvisation is one of the most (if not the) most important elements in jazz....and it sounds kind of hip, like actresses now referring to themselves as “actors”. Now, one could argue that it is bad use of the term since it is true that not all improvised music is jazz. However, in the context of that article this is what is meant. Btw, one use of the term “improvised music”....over fifty uses of the term “jazz” in the article. Me thinks we are seeing what we want to see 😎 On a different note, a friend’s recent interest in the clarinet reminded me of this clip which I listened to recently. One of the greatest players on the instrument today and a freak of nature technically. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O_JkhFuzEoo Speaking of Duke and the clarinet: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej29CkjSt-4 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dkgTv8M_yj0 |
Just ’out of head’, first thought, when I think about pianists with’soul’ in their sound...couple of tunes.. Wynton Kelly... https://youtu.be/B2nyZC6KLO8 https://youtu.be/ldTIXsCXJhc https://youtu.be/skB21XR1klc Ray Bryant too... https://youtu.be/6Q4EYUkmBg4 https://youtu.be/ToWh1yZv-z8 Junior Mance https://youtu.be/ecJLZZ509C8 https://youtu.be/NbxAIeKdJfg ...about ’present state of affairs’, one funny saying comes on my mind...it says that ’pessimist is the educated optimist’... |
