Rok, initially, Miles played with Monk. Coltrane was unknown when he began with Miles. Mulligan and Miles were equals, while Miles was before Adderly, it's for sure Garland had been around when he played with Miles, but Paul Chambers was young and new. Although this is in regard to what you mentioned, I was referring to groups much later in his career, like with young Tony Williams, and even later when he had very talented musicians who were unknown to me; but at the time you are referring to, all the names you mentioned were jazz giants.
Enjoy the music.
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Would all the purest cover your ears? I ran across this and thought someone would enjoy it. Real primal and African. Were they a little Pissed? Can anyone tell me who is in this band besides David Lieberman? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxSFSdcGPLM |
Acman3:
I listened to it all the way to the end. I consider this to be sound generation. Sounds can be enjoyable and fun.
Also hypnotic / mesmerizing. Sort of like like voodoo folks dancing in the movies.
The sounds are designed to just carry you away. No thinking allowed, just get wrapped up in the sounds, esp of the drums and rhythm sections.
I liked it. But I would not like it on CD. It's the sort of thing you have to SEE to really enjoy. Sort of like Sun Ra.
But Miles is soooo cool, he can do anything and make it at least interesting, if not profound. I did not recognize any of the players, except Miles.
That twirling sound you heard at the end, was POPS spinning in his grave.
Nice clip. Thanks
Cheers |
Loved it. Yes, Dave Liebman. Al Foster on drums, Mtume on perc, Michael Henderson on bass. Don't recognize the guitar players. |
Although I got into this because it was impossible not to, the music was hypnotic, I don't think it would be on my playlist. I would love to have been on that set. That's the difference between live and recorded, when you're on the set, it's out of sight, but not so hot recorded in your listening room.
I saw Miles live when he was into his "fringed vest" attire in the late 60's, at the time he was in his "Bitches Brew" thing, before he had recorded it, and to be honest; although I was a Miles fan, when he came out with this music, I said "What the hell......?"
This reminds me of the contrast between Coltrane live and recorded; you heard the recorded, but the live was different music, almost similar to this when he was playing that straight soprano sax.
Enjoy the music.
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When I saw Miles it was right after he had made drastic changes, not only in his music, but in his personal life as well. Betty Mabry, who was more or less "a hippy", was a big influence in his personal life and his music; hence Miles in a fringed raw hide vest.
This was in Chicago, but fortunately I was at that set with a guy from New York (New Yorker's are always hip to everything). He explained that this was Miles new music, but that didn't make it any easier on my ears; of course that would not have mattered to Miles, he knew what he was doing; this was the music of "Bitches Brew" before it was recorded.
That's what happens when you pour wine from a bottle of whiskey. If you taste wine when you expect whiskey, you spit it out. If you taste whiskey when you expect wine, you spit it out. I expected to see the Miles I had come to know and love, not some hippy playing this very different music.
Enjoy the music.
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O-10:
What is the cause or motivation for this 'elvolution' in musical style? Is it something within the player to move in a different direction, or is it some deliberate effort to stay relevant/ popular with the current generation.
Cheers |
While it could never be denied that Miles was trying to 'cash in' when he went Electric, it was still creatively important music. And as usual, the members of his band were the best of the best, most of whom went on to great success (relatively speaking within Jazz that is). After this creatively fertile time of his career he 'retired' for awhile. When he came back with 'The Man With The Horn', 'Decoy', & 'You're Under Arrest' was when I felt he was truly playin' for the buck$. But Even than he still made some music to be respected like 'Star People', 'Siesta', & 'Aura'. With a career as legendary as Miles had, it's a mistake to attribute it solely to his sidemen. I've read extensively about him and those same bandmates universally felt (and I agree) that Miles was, to put it in Milesian(!) terms, a muthafka on trumpet!;) |
Rok, with all of the other jazz musicians I've followed, all of them changed, but in ways I could relate to. Miles was an "enigma", although staying relevant/ popular with the current generation was important to him. While I didn't know Miles personally, I knew his brother, and we both thought the same things about Miles new music; of course this had nothing to do with how much he loved Miles, or how much Miles loved him.
I've got Miles CD's that get played when I can't remember what they sounded like, and they come out of the player as fast as they went in. The last time I saw a live performance of Miles, he looked like Sinbad out of "Arabian Nights". There was an unknown sax player I don't remember but he really sounded good. I was deep into the sax man's solo when Miles blurted in sounding like an ardvark fart. It's for sure he never lost his ability to select the best new talent, but his ego got in the way of the music. He never would have done that when him and Trane were together, although he said Trane played too long.
In regard to his changes, while he lost old audiences, he always gained even bigger new one's, which certainly helped his bottom line; that's what I call "upwards failure". I call em like I see em.
By the way, nobody has mentioned "Quincy Jones"; he's a musician that was always changing, but each change brought about a new and interesting sound, I'm going to get into Quincy next.
Enjoy the music.
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I think it's safe to say that Miles Davis was envious of the success of Sly Stone and Jimi Hendrix. They were being hailed as creative geniuses and were seen as pushing the limits of popular music. Jazz had been forgotten. Miles Davis redefined jazz by basically having jazz musicians not play jazz. To this day it's still not exactly clear what to call the music those bands played. Take a listen to "Tribute to Jack Johnson" for a fairly accessible example. Listen to "Agharta/Pangaea" for something more challenging. It's amazing music. |
Chazro, while we agree that members of his band were the best of the best, Miles and I did not hear music in the same fashion. "All" music is subjective, and Miles new audiences heard what Miles heard with his "new music", but I didn't.
No one would ever attribute Miles career and legendary success to his sidemen, only that his talent for selecting the best sidemen helped his success.
In reality, this debate is more about the subjectivity of music than it is about "Miles Davis"; apparently he realized that and went were those "subjective" dollars were flowing.
Enjoy the music.
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I disagree with the opinion that Miles was trying to "cash in" on the trend to go electric; or, that he was envious of their success of artists such as Sly or Hendrix. First of all, by the time that he released "Bitches Brew" he was a wealthy man and he also knew that his place in music history was well established. He admired and respected Sly and Hendrix and saw "going electric" as a new and different outlet for his creativity and not simply a commercial opportunity. I think that, in spite of his star status, the depth of Miles's genius is still underestimated. IMO, as music lovers, we would do well to always give an artist of the stature of Miles (there aren't that many) the benefit of the doubt; it can only serve to help us grow as music lovers and we should judge with a sense of humility. IOW, when the artist moves in a direction that may not be to our liking, we should ask ourselves "what am I not hearing?", instead of being quick to dismiss it as a move in the interest of financial success without real artistic merit. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dc7qiosq4m4 |
O-10:
*****The last time I saw a live performance of Miles, he looked like Sinbad out of "Arabian Nights". *******
EXACTLY!! Great description. I have seen pictures of him appearing the same way.
**** although he said Trane played too long ******
I'm sure you have heard the sory about when Miles, Coltrane and Coleman Hawkins were just standing around talking music, and Coltrane was going on about his solos, and how once he got started he just didn't know how to stop playing.
Miles takes a drag off his cigarette, and in the raspy voice said "take the horn out your mouth" ahahahhahha
Priceless!
Guess I will have to put 'Bitches Brew' in ther player today.
Cheers |
Quincy Jones:
Cannot be limited to any one genre. Great composer and arranger. Always stayed 'young'. Great personality. I became aware of him when he played with Ray Charles and later, during his 'Killer Joe' days.
The 'Wynton' of his day??
Cheers |
Rok, here's Quincy in 1962 on "Soul Bossa Nova". I liked it then and I still like it now. You can follow Quincy from then till now, and his trolley never jumped the tracks of what I call good music, or according to "my taste" in music. Maybe you can chime in on Quincy's progression through the years. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDRBbuDG5a0Enjoy the music. |
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Interesting that we should transition from Miles to Quincy Jones. Always changing, yes, but I can think of no other musician that so exemplifies the move of a successful and respected jazz musician (Basie, Sinatra, solo) to the commercial music field (Hollywood, Michael Jackson, rap) with an incredible amount of success. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W146Z_-O0J0 |
Thank you Frogman, no one could have said it better. |
Since Quincy Jones is far too important a musician in so many genres for me to exclusively dominate this thread with his jazz contributions to music, I'm going to let "yall" have it and hope Leersfool comes back and chimes in.
Enjoy the music.
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Frogman to the rescue! There is nothing Like cool jazz I haven't heard before. That sax on evening in Paris was too cool. In regard to film scores by Quincy, I forgot about them; keep it up.
Enjoy the music.
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Apparently Q's having a huge birthday bash in Switzerland. A commemorative show is being prepared. I follow Take 6 on Facebook where they just posted this photo of the set list, looks like a good time!
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/p320x320/13231_531178113597660_1469039516_n.jpg
Hope the link works! |
"Body Heat" is my favorite CD by Quincy, and since every last cut on this CD is my favorite, I was forced to pick one. "Along Came Betty" was the one I picked. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ9Il20bfWIEnjoy the music. |
Hi Orpheus - I was out of town for a few days there. I am actually not familiar with the soundtrack to On Green Dolphin Street. I know that's a Lana Turner film, but I have not actually seen it yet. Now that I know it has a good soundtrack, I will definitely check it out.
Quincy Jones did all kinds of different things. One of my personal favorites is a record on which he did some arrangements of a bunch of jazz standards for Julius Watkins, who was the greatest jazz hornist back in the day. Didn't do too many albums as the feature artist, but was a sideman on a great many albums, including some with Miles (Birth of the Cool being one). One of my friends is actually trying to put a group together to recreate that album in concert, but it hasn't happened yet. When it does, I will definitely participate.
Oops, got off on a tangent there - the album in question is one of those hilarious ones from the 60's, entitled French Horns For My Lady, complete with hilarious drawing of a 60's blonde holding a horn on the cover. Some of the most famous horn players in New York were in a back-up horn quartet on that album, including Gunther Schuller and John Barrows from the classical world. It was on the Philips label. Martha Flowers, of Star Trek theme song fame, does her vocal stylizing on a couple of the tunes. Hilarious arrangements. |
Latest Listen:
Harold Land -- A Lazy Afternoon
orch arranged and conducted by Ray Ellis
Some wonderful Tenor Sax playing. No fireworks, just standards played in a very lyrical style.
Normally I think orch(with strings) + jazz soloist = disaster. Bird and Nat Cole come to mind. But this recordinmg is very well done.
Ellis has worked with some of the best jazz vocalist, Billie Holiday, Lena Horne etc.... and he arranged for Land exactly as if he were a vocalist.
The orch compliments Land perfectly and never overpowers him.
Land has great tone and articulation. The Frogman and O-10 will love it. I think this is what is known as 'tasteful' playing. He stays true to the standard's melody mostly, but does get in a little improvisation.
You like melodic sax playing? Then you have to check this one out.
The tune lineup is first rate. All well known Jazz standards
Cheers |
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I will have to find a recording of that; have always liked Harold Land's playing.
Speaking of tasteful tenor playing, the tenor player on "Evening In Paris" on the QJ link above is Lucky Thompson.
C |
Rok, I added that to my collection about a week ago, not one bad cut. Frogman, I have a couple LP's by lucky. He did a mean solo on "Walkin" with Miles. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iCHdv-gsnwEnjoy the music. |
For all music lovers. Don't like it? Shame on you!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUP-fcFjqyk
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I traveled from one end of South Korea to the other to find this CD. It got me thru the tour.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08CqZaP0EuA
Cheers
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One of my favorite Quincy Jones recordings is in a genre that is controversial in the minds of jazz lovers. I refer to the pop-leaning, urban-hip, very "produced" studio "jazz"" recordings that many jazz artists like QJ, George Benson and others have released. Purists tend to put down those recordings as "smooth-jazz" drivel or as "cashing in". I think there is good reason for this attitude; more times than not I am left with the feeling: "OK, the playing is very slick, it's all very tight and the tune is catchy; but, so what?". What QJ does better than just about anyone is to bring a jazz player's sensibility to the multi-track studio where the "performance" is a layering of individual performances, something which would normally give the music an insipid but ultra-slick feeling; as opposed to the organic feeling of music performed by an ensemble playing together in the same room, at the same time. He can take the art of manipulation to new heights. He has such a knack for choosing the right players and soloists for a particular tune, choosing just the right tempo, and other production details that he can elevate the genre to level that is uncommon. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X8t93djjoOEI find this recording to be absolutely brilliant; within the confines of the genre. The playing is immaculate. If you want great studio flute playing, there is no one better than Hubert Laws. What more can be said about Herbie Hancock? He wrote the tune and plays on the track. The solo he played is brilliant, and is, after the very pretty melody, what the track is all about. The rhythm section playing is amazing. Check out the hi-hat work by Steve Gadd. It's just amazing, and turns the almost disco (horrors!) beat into something much more. QJ's stroke of production genius is in transcribing Herbie Hancock's solo and doubling it with an overdubbed violin section composed of multi-tracks by the same violinist. Also check out his use of hand claps as essentially the only thing that changes and adds variety in an, otherwise, monotonous rhythm track. Usually, that kind of intense manipulation is a recipe for musical disaster. In the hands of QJ, it becomes his canvas, and he "composes" his vision of the tune. No hamburger will ever be as good as a great T-bone; but, a burger can be pretty great when all the ingredients are just so. |
I'm sure you guys can 'suffer' thru one more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEVeIyE0KcE
There are more videos with her singing in person, but I thought this one had the best sonics and this is the one I own. Finest Babe in Badedom!!!!
Cheers |
Frogman, I can get in the mood for that, there a time and place for most music; although I'm not going to comment on the time and place for Lisa Fischer's music. This old man has a fantastic imagination Rok.
Enjoy the music.
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Hi Orpheus - that track of Julius Watkins you posted is the first one on the album I was talking about. Hilarious!
And yes, that is Martha Flowers on the original Trek theme. She is on a couple of different tracks on French Horns For My Lady. |
Acman3:
I saw that clip with the Stones earlier. I was stunned! :)
I have finally realized why I am not a big fan of most rock music. Because, most/a lot of it is focused on the guitar.
Fast, Loud, distorted, Guitar. Grates on me.
Cheers |
Rok, She should be a lot more famous. It's hard to steal the show from Mick! A talented Lady. Maybe she will go Jazz! |
Acman3:
I agree, she should have been bigger. But, in this society, everything is profit driven and numbers count.
The exposure goes to the ones that are liked by the segment that spends the most money. Classical and Jazz are not mainstream genres. Teenagers could not even know they exist.
I have two(2) rock CDs. One by the Stones, and the other by the Eagles. I just had to have 'Sympathy for the Devil' and all the other Stones classics and just about all The Eagles' stuff.
Cheers |
I've got to go in for minor surgery, but I should be back Monday.
Enjoy the music.
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I guess my Grandma was right. She always said it was the devil's music.
http://now.msn.com/kim-cheol-woong-branded-as-traitor-for-playing-jazz-in-north-korea
Cheers |
I'm back! Almost anyway; there is no such thing as "minor" surgery, hernia surgery is what I had done, I'm still in pain, but they gave me some good dope, uh pain pills that is. My son is helping, I write on a note pad and he takes it down types and posts it. Today I'm listening to music that has no genre or category, it's kind of like I feel after taking pain pills, in betwixt and between here and there. "The Dead Can Dance", and "Enigma" are two groups that move to a different drummers beat. First I'll cover "Enigma"; their music has an incessant beat that draws you into it's world of universal truths, in regard to the sensual aspects of man. Since it's global in nature, maybe you could call it "world music"; but it would certainly be a very sensual and surrealistic world. This page gives you many choices, try them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC_VQ_aXmd0&playnext=1&list=AL94UKMTqg-9CYbse9vUf1vJMdBN78bAl9Now we go to "Dead Can Dance"; this music is primeval, they use drums that were some of the first ever used, and the sound can take you back to a time before time. Some of this music might still be played by the indigenous people in remote corners of the planet such as South America, or the remotest parts of Africa maybe. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZpXPwmbQvcAlthough "Dead Can Dance" had very interesting music, they weren't as consistent as "Enigma" in regard to a signature sound, I liked the primeval best. As you can see I'm making the best of this time, although pain and recuperating from surgery go together, the good dope they gave me makes the pain go away. (I'm keeping it real). Since I won't be responding to everybody's posts, you take over Rok. Enjoy the music. |
Orpheus Lives!!!
Welcome back. I guess I can tell the boys down in Narlins to cancel the parade!
Speedy recovery. When I had my wisdom teeth out, they gave me some Goooood stuff. Made me wanna do it again!
Cheers |
Good to hear everything went well, Orpheus! |
Today I'm listening to "Dave Pike", Pike's Peak; he's a vibraphonist. Presently I'm enjoying "In a Sentimental Mood". Dave likes to "scat" while he's jammin. Some people find that distracting, but I like it; "Ooh shooby doo bop swello", I can't scat like Dave or Ella, but I have fun.
Each note from Dave's vibes hangs in the air ringing in my ear; now, "give the drummer some", his name is Walter Perkins. Sorry, I never heard of a Walter Perkins, but he can jam. Right now he's doing his thing on "Vierd Blues" by M. Davis. Him and Herbie Lewis on bass are "rompin and stompin". (never heard of a Herbie Lewis either) These cats can jam, that just shows you how many top notch jazz musicians this aficionado has never heard of.
Recuperating from surgery ain't all bad, I'm forced to do what I love to do and nobody can nag me about what I should be doing. Did I tell you about the feel good pills they gave me? "Nope, not for another 4 hours".
"Besame Mucho", that means "Kiss me much", was written by Mexican songwriter Consuelo Velazquez, who wrote this before she had ever been kissed, and I fell in love with this song before I ever did any kissing. Me and her got a lot in common. Miles Davis was kissin on Velma Brooks at his birthday party, when his big sister told on him. "As long as he ain't kissin on Junior Quinn" was his father's response. That's the kind of kissing this song is about, and if you stop and think; that's even more romantic than adult kissing. (Frogman and Leersfool created a monster, when they started this "aficionado" going deep into the music)
Herbie Lewis's boss bass intro on this tune, followed by Dave's "vibrasonic" vibes, get into the soul of this music like I've never heard it before; and now Bill Evans melodic piano responds to the rhythm. Bill sounds like he was born playing jazz piano.
Although I've had this CD in my collection for over 15 years, I just discovered Bill Evans was on it. There are several reasons for this; a sale was on at the record store, and I told the sales girl to select the best jazz CD's, and I would pick them up later; consequently I only know how good the music is, and I'm just discovering all of the musicians. When you hear Miles, Monk, or Trane, you know who you're listening to, but Bill is like a cameleon who takes on the color of the music he's playing, and he does it so well that all you can hear is the beautiful music emanating from the key's of his piano everytime he strikes one. I imagine Consuelo Velazquez is looking down from a cloud smiling, and enjoying listening to her music sounding exactly as she intended for it to souund
"Wild Is The Wind" is the last cut on this CD, and the music captures the romantic intensity of the lyrics as sung by Johnny Mathis or Randy Crawford. All of these musicians are so into each song they play, that I feel this is the first time I've heard each one of those old standards. Anytime musicians can make old music sound brand new, that's the highest compliment that I can give them. This is a must have CD in your collection.
Enjoy the music.
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Rok, I like those parades, can't we have a parade anyway, I can even join the second line; I always wanted to do that. |
Leersfool, It's nice to know you're concerned, that will help my recuperation.
Enjoy the music. |
I've found 'Doo Wop' to be the best reovery music.
Cheers |
From the July Issue of BBC MUSIC MAGAZINE:
Miles Davis- Live in Europe 1969, The bootleg series vol 2
Performance got 5 stars, the recording 4 stars. This is the last recording before Bitches Brew. Reviewer says it was a 'road test' for the bitches brew music.
Holland, shorter, dejohnette and corea on board.
Mixed reviews on amazon. Sound quality the main problem. But it does say 'bootleg'.
From the Orchestral Section:
Ellington - Black, Brown and Beige Suite, Harlem, three Black kings Ballet, the River, Take the A Train.
Performed by the Buffalo Philharmonic - Falletta.
$10 on Amazon with great reviews on Amazon and BBC.
4-star performance and 5-star recording. Naxos.
I think I'll give this one a try.
Excerpt:
Asked if his concert works were really 'Jazz', Ellington retorted,"I don't see how this thing called Jazz takes precedence over me." hahahahahha, messing with the wrong guy! He recognized two genres, good and bad.
Cheers |
