Frogman, this is your cup of tea, you could go back and forth on something like this for days on end. I can certainly see how others would get discouraged in watching this "bruha" that is not a productive, or enjoyable discussion about the music. That sounds like a very good reason not to participate in this thread.
Jazz for aficionados
Jazz for aficionados
I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Enjoy the music.
I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Enjoy the music.
31,618 responses Add your response
Frogman, this is your cup of tea, you could go back and forth on something like this for days on end. I can certainly see how others would get discouraged in watching this "bruha" that is not a productive, or enjoyable discussion about the music. That sounds like a very good reason not to participate in this thread. |
The purpose of this thread is to share our best musical experiences, so that we may increase our collections. While it states for "jazz aficionados", meaning those who have spent their entire adult lives listening to, and collecting jazz records, jazz is so ambiguous now, that sharing your best musical experiences is good enough. Acman submitted some reggae by Bob Marley, who was at the top of his game when he left us; since he died doing what he enjoyed most, it wasn't all bad; there are worse ways to go. This is not a thread for debating (arguing about who's the best) Since all music is "subjective", I can say who's the best, but if it doesn't qualify according to your musical ears and taste, it's moot. However, since I have listened to and acquired jazz records all my adult life, I do hope that I have been instrumental in helping you to acquire records (CD's) that increase your enjoyment of the music. I posted some "Bird" that might be too old, or not in the same groove as some tastes, and I'm sincerely curious about that; what did you think of those "Bird" posts? Enjoy the music. |
"Rasta Man Vibrations" and "Natty Dread" were my first two reggae albums, that led me to other artists; it was a real blast. I even went to "Mo Bay"; that's what the islanders call "Montego Bay". It's the second largest city in Jamaica. Believe it or not, Jamaicans are more into jazz than reggae; that's for the tourists. On the radio, you will hear jazz so hip, that you'll think you're in New York; that was a welcome relief because reggae is best in small doses; you don't want to OD. "Natty Dread" gives you a feel for the island, and how most Jamaicans live. Let's hear a couple of songs from that album; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIM-tkNBK-0&list=PLEMVZmX54bvdRnDAOo4ofi4XP48b6SdOF Enjoy the music. |
Discussion about music is not about "winning"; facts speak for themselves. Moreover, music is not subjective; our reaction to it is (sometimes). For anyone interested in some facts: The comment that Bird, as great as he was, was not "capable of playing anything that Trane could" was made primarily in reference to Trane’s more advanced improvisational concepts; not about ability to play "all the notes on a saxophone" or who could play faster. However, it is also not true that Bird could play all the notes on the saxophone; certainly not the way that Trane could. Trane expanded the range of the saxophone by making use of the "altissimo" register; the range of notes outside (higher) the normal range of the instrument. He also used "multi phonics"; playing more than one note at a time by making use of natural occurring harmonics. I have not heard nor read reference to a single recorded example of Bird playing in the altissimo register or of using multiphonics; just two examples. This did not make Trane a "better" jazz player. It did make him a more advanced (better) instrumentalist with a more advanced harmonic concept. Which of the two was a better jazz player? THAT is subjective. |
We are jumping from theme to theme...anyway, more jazz from Jamaica I posted him before, maybe not in this line up. Excellent guitar player, Ernest Ranglin with Monty Alexander and famous rythm section of Sly and Robbie...'Jamaican legends live'.... https://youtu.be/H0tpI4Y4W7I?list=PLD0ACE18A281C028B |
Who’s jumping? 😉 When I made reference to Trane’s language in comparison to Bird’s I was not referring to where he had taken that language by the time of "A Love Supreme". By then, his music was fairly modal with fairly simple chord changes which created a less restrictive backdrop for his hugely emotional musical outpourings. To contrast the two languages, a better comparison to Bird’s language would be something like this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=30FTr6G53VU Possibly the most difficult hard bop composition to improvise over with its VERY fast changing harmonic progression. While still within a very structured harmonic framework, these harmonic changes are not only very fast changing, their relationship to each other was very non-traditional (at the time) presenting the improviser with new and unusual challenges. For anyone interested in learning a bit more about this, or simply putting it all in a better context: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coltrane_changes Nice Monty clip, btw. |
O-10, you really try a person’s patience. Why don’t you just try to be a bit more civil and a little less childish and see where that takes you? In the interest of driving an important issue forward (would be much simpler to ignore you) and out of simple (undeserved?) courtesy I will hang in there. Kindly explain to me (quote please) just what it is I have written that is a "criticism of Bird". Thanks. |
Although demonstrating more calypso than reggae, one of the most successful recent marriages of Afro-Caribbean music and jazz hails from the birthplace of calypso, Trinidad. I posted some of this very nice young trumpet player previously. I love the relaxed feeling in this style; even in the more swingy tunes. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ad3uG7-2tVs https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YmhajnlB9Og https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rsayHOVvS8s https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e6rfAnQ9DDA |
The tune "I Want To Be a Sideman" submitted by Frogman 09-05-2016 11:23am, caused me to think how a major jazz musician coming through St. Louis wanting to do a gig would pick up sidemen. At that time, there were so many good jazz musicians in St. Louis, that it wasn't a major problem to pick up good sidemen. A good musician who didn't want to leave home, and find his lady done took up with "Jody" and gone when he gets back home, would definitely want to be a "sideman". He would belong to the local, have a book, and have fun in between gigs, without any responsibility; that sounds like my kind of life when I was young, and my only goal in life was to have fun. This is the song I liked; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdOav-Gt6mI Enjoy the music. |
When you buy music from the islands; this is what you hear, the people in the islands like this kind of jazz, they don't care for "stereotypical" music, meaning reggae Jamaica, or the "stereotypical" steel drum Trinidad music, they seem to like what I call Island music, which is a mixture of all the Islands. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndcyncj0hMc This is super hip Island music; it's what the people prefer, not what's presented to the tourists. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-Sk8xdJBUQ Enjoy the music. |
*****
This is super hip Island music; it's what the people prefer, not what's presented to the tourists.***** And you know this how? This is boring third world crap. And EVERYTHING they do, is for the tourist trade. How do you think they eat. Both clips sounded like the same tune. Neither tune is Jazz. Cheers |
Rok, I'm so glad you asked that question. I went to "Mo Bay" by my lonesome and hooked up with a beautiful Jamaican Lady. That's a No NO, but nobody told me; they chased me and the lady all over the island. I went from one place to the other, but the Jamaicans must have been beating the talking drums on us because no matter where we went, they seemed to be expecting us. I took my lady (not the one I'm married to) to Haiti, but I still managed to talk to one of the locals, she was very skittish about talking to me. (not because of that male female thing but because of the crazy government in Haiti, see "The Comedians") At any rate we talked about music (she was a sales lady at the music store) and I still have the records she recommended; they were similar to what I posted. There is no way I was going to fool around in Haiti, they can do bad things to you, and you wont even know they done done em. Regina Carter just came on the box with that Mississippi violin thing we bought. I didn't play the records until I got home; they're similar to what's posted. Are you sure Pops said that; it seems to me I read that in one of Flannery O' Connor's short stories; she's the best thing to come out of Mississippi; MI crooked letter crooked letter I humpback humpback I; just kidding. Don't stay gone so long. Enjoy the music. |
Moreover, music is not subjective; our reaction to it is (sometimes). For anyone interested in some facts: That sentence is total 100% BS; you are claiming to have some OBJECTIVE handle on music. Even if you had a doctorate in music and a professional musician to boot, you still would not have any kind of objective handle on music. You have proven over the years, that our sense of "aesthetics" is different. Whatever I see as beautiful, you will find fault with it. That's not wrong, nor is it right; it just is. When people's sense of aesthetics are different, especially since you have been to music school; or maybe even teach music sometime, you seem to believe that you have some kind of "objective" handle on music; that's your illusion. Enjoy the music. |
Now, this really is special. A friend sent me this. I have listened and loved this record for over thirty years (!) and had no idea that there was live video footage of that very live performance at the Montreux Festival in 1969. I know every note on that record and it adds a great deal to make the visual connection. Eddie Harris is as funky as ever and biggest surprise for me on this record has always been Benny Bailey on trumpet with some very exciting and very vocal solos. One of the funkiest records I have ever heard: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv0fnSBf0Do It gets even more special. For those more than thirty years I have thought that the applause we hear at 3:08 was mid-solo applause for Benny Bailey. Look at the video and you will see that the applause is FOR ELLA WHO HAS JUST ARRIVED AND IS TAKING HER SEAT! Gotta love it. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y8YOLY4Tats |
Hey Frogman - Thanks for those links. What record are you referring to? I did find "Swiss Movement (Montreaux 30th Anniversary)" a 2004 release. It's live McCann & Harris with Compared to What. Sound quality seems excellent. The album includes: Cold Duck Time, Kathleen's Theme, You Got It In Your Soulness, The Generation Gap, Kaftan. If you would, let me know. Thanks. |
Found it this AM on Spotify, Frogman. I sampled it briefly. Liked what I heard and think it’s worth further listening. Jazz philistine that I am, however, I could really do without the singing (hopefully only on the one track). I wish I could describe/define what it is about some jazz music (not only jazz but all sorts of music) that hooks and engages me as opposed to other well-regarded stuff that is painfully boring. |
"Cold Duck Time" and "Compared To What" are universally loved in the jazz community, and they were hits from day one. I'm not certain if the tune "Cold Duck Time" refers to a popular wine we were drinking at that time, but I recall guys coming to parties with bottles of it and announcing "It's cold duck time", let the celebration begin. Those were the days my friend, I thought they would never end. The very ground that I partied and had so much fun on, is now the Ghetto, and nobody I know lives there any longer. Since I consider myself a sociologist, that's very important. I'm not changing the subject, music relates to everything, it comes from the people at the time of it's origination. Those were some good times, and you can feel it in the music, they even danced to it. Those changes have occurred in every major city in this country; if you are a concerned citizen of this country, you should be concerned about that. Changes that take a minimum of 30 years, occurred overnight. Now compared to then (1969), should be the title of a song. Enjoy the music. |
Recent Acquisition: McCoy Tyner -- TRIDENT Should appeal to all you so-called progressives. Even has McCoy on Harpsichord on a tune titled "Celestial Chant". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkECUxyRMeg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3OfMNWcnNw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FW0EapKHf28 I even liked the Coltrane tune "Impressions". Great CD. Cheers |
O - Thanks for the reminiscences. It ain't all gone and nobody can take it away if you carry it around in your soul. I thought the Wikipedia entry about Les was interesting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_McCann I like his piano work on Swiss Movement better than playing by the other soloists but what makes it for me is the rhythm section...the foundation and mortar (as usual). BTW - I think you are spot on regarding the significance of Cold Duck. I remember it... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_Duck The Generation Gap reminded me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vu2tyk8cvc |
Ghosthouse, your links were right on; there was a "Cold Duck Wine" that was popular at that time. I'll go back through that Les McCann link, and do some shopping. Those crowded wet city streets looked like any city around Christmas time. We were having fun big time when "The In Crowd" came out; I even tried to dance. I've got a ton of Ramsey Lewis records; now compared to then makes you want to cry. Enjoy the music. |
Frogman, when I went to find something by Red Garland, this came up. While I'm sure its of interest to you, I just wanted to hear the music. Your comments on this would be appreciated. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqc9gsDCJSU Enjoy the music. |
Red Garland did some of his bast work with Miles; here are some of my favorites; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMW3RloxEyA Milestones is another favorite with Red Garland. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k94zDsJ-JMU Here is one of my favorite versions of one of my favorite tunes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIgLt7LAZF0 Enjoy the music. |
Red Garland’s Quintet on album ’Red ’s good groove’ from 1962. With Blue Mitchell,Pepper Adams,Sam Jones and Philly Joe Jones... I doubt, but if somebody does not have this album... https://youtu.be/2TJG3yfTJfE https://youtu.be/wp_w8IUq4G4 https://youtu.be/7OmTMVDkts4 https://youtu.be/41kWLRTmBjY Perhaps the right question wolud be why they did not make any more music in this line up? |
Alex, Red's piano really sparkles in this group. Pepper Adams must be the best sideman in the business; every body seems to want him, I have him playing with more different artists than anyone I can think of. Red is really in a good groove on this album, and I wish they had made more music in this lineup Most important for my collection, is the fact that I am still adding "new" old music thanks to you guys. Enjoy the music. |
When I tried to post that link yesterday, that guy kept interrupting the music, and I decided that Frogman would be better than any of us to respond to whatever he was talking about, but no Frogman. However, I did find a good CD in my collection "Soul Junction" Red Garland - piano John Coltrane - tenor sax Donald Byrd - trumpet George Joyner - bass Art Taylor - drums This is the best CD out of all the rest in regard to hearing "Red Garland's" music. As the title suggests we hear the soul of Red Garland, and it's kind of "blusie", if there is such a word. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbEzCPQKRW0 Enjoy the music. |
****I decided that Frogman would be better than any of us to respond to whatever he was talking about, but no Frogman.**** Hmmm......let’s see. How about just a small sampling of recent possible reasons why no Frogman; shall we?: ****it’s been evident your only objective is to destroy this thread; I call it "jealously".**** ****That’s the kind of snarky sh-t you have been posting for some time.**** ****Your evaluation my dear sir, indicates you are in the "Junior League" of aficionados.**** ****Every Time things are running smooth on this thread you rock the boat**** ****then you must be lost in the woods.**** ****Frogman, that is the most ludicrous statement you ever made.**** ****While you are most certainly entitled to your own opinions, some of them sound like you been smoking da splif mon.**** ****That sentence is total 100% BS; **** O-10, hopefully, one of these days you will understand that your behavior is not only not condusive to good dialogue, it sucks. Now, good natured chap that I am 😇 (or sucker....probably) I watched your clip. Please explain to me what it is you don’t understand about the commentary in that clip; you can tell me where (timing) on the tape the comment is made. I can’t for the life of me find anything remotely mysterious or remotely difficult to understand in it. Love Red Garland, btw. |
Frogman, when I clicked on that link, I expected to hear music, not a lot of "Blah Blah Blah". I thought it might relate to something you knew and cared about. But now we're moving on to the next thing. BTW, one of the reasons we have so many viewers, and so few participants, is because it takes effort, and some sort of intellect to contribute to this thread; I say to participants on this thread, pat yourself on the back for the effort you have made to keep this thread going. I was a teenager when I became interested in jazz; at that time, nothing was more important than girls and cars. I liked to hear the music, but I didn't take the time to read the covers; which means I gave little importance to the "sidemen". Now that I'm an old man, I done forgot what girls are for, and cars are for going to the drugs store for prescriptions. The sidemen I neglected to focus on are now the primary focus for discussion. Could you suggest a sideman you would like to put in the spotlight. Enjoy the music. |
****Perhaps the right question wolud be why they did not make any more music in this line up?**** Very interesting question, Alex. Speaking of "mysterious", it's always interesting to try and solve mysteries like this. Very nice record "Red's Good Groove", and it does beg the question "why only one session"? The easy answer might be as easy as "scheduling conflicts". These were busy players and it would not be terribly unusual for the scheduling stars to not have aligned. Maybe. A more interesting reason might have been related to the thought I had the first time I heard this record: "Donald Byrd/Pepper Adams". The baritone saxophone/trumpet front line is an extremely distinctive sounding front line in hard bop. How many can you think of? By the 60's the Adams/Byrd Qt. had become very popular and in demand, it's possible that Garner's band's sound was thought by producers to be too reminiscent of the Byrd/Adams sound. It's important to remember that Garner's recording group was not a working band. As usual, the most likely reason had to do contractual issues. Garner's record was recorded in '62; a year after Byrd/Adams disbanded and this probably invalidates possible reason #2. That very year Adams signed an exclusive recording contract with Motown (!?) records; actually, their jazz subsidiary "Workshop" Records. As an interesting aside, because of the nature of most of Motown's music, it frequently uses the baritone saxophone. It would not be surprising to me if Pepper Adams played baritone in the horn sections in many Motown soul sessions. Adams recorded one solo record with that label "Pepper Adams Plays Charlie Mingus". The Byrd/Adams Quintet, besides being a fantastic group, was notable for introducing Herbie Hancock to the record listening public with the 1961 release "Royal Flush": https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9411D061AEE3FDD9 |
Frogman, that's a fantastic contribution; Donald Byrd - trumpet Pepper Adams - baritone saxophone Herbie Hancock - piano Butch Warren - bass Billy Higgins - drums Now I can listen without wandering what's Mustang Sally up to, or, is Susie Q. back in town. This music sounds ever so good; Pepper Adams, and Donald Byrd go together like bacon and eggs, you can't have one without the other. Herbie Hancock sounds real good, but has not yet established himself as "The Herby Hancock". The music overall is good, that's a tribute to Donald Byrd, he always comes through. The records of his that I sold, I had to buy them back. They were sold because I hadn't adjusted to his "new" music; this record is before his "new" music, and is straight ahead jazz. Enjoy the music. |
Frogman, When I listened to this recording I thought it might just be up your alley. "Havana Moon" by the TransAtlanticEnsemble. A fusion of Latin Jazz and Classical music. In a couple of cuts I’m reminded of Stravinsky’s Shadow Dances. It is predominantly a piano and clarinet duo. It is on a Steinway & Sons CD. O-10, somehow I don’t think you would find this music particularly interesting. I could be wrong, just a guess. |
Newbee, I considered the music pleasant, like the music that used to be over the PA in large office buildings; it was music to sleep by. I recall buying something like that when CD's first came out because they didn't have any jazz on CD. You were spot on in regard to whether or not I would like it. Enjoy the music. |
I just found out the recording quality of that link I was trying to post of "Red Garland" wasn't too good, so that kills it for me. While I'm not extreme in regard to recording quality, there is a minimum, and if the music doesn't meet it, on to the next thing. I've been listening to female Brazilian vocalists lately, and I was wondering if that would be a good subject for our next foray into good music. It's a lot more productive when we do this thing as a group; I want to make sure we're of one mind before the next venture; that means you too Rok if you're still with us. How about a little feedback? Enjoy the music. |
Newbee, lovely record. As you said, interesting fusion of Classical and Latin-Jazz with some very elegant playing. You are correct about the similarity to some of the music in Shadow Dances; "Tango" in particular. There is a strong Tango influence in a couple of the pieces on the Havana Moon recording borrowing a lot from the music of Astor Piazzola. For me, the highlights of the recording are the pieces by Paquito. Paquito is the consummate musician and has no genre boundaries. He has rather quietly become a very admired composer in the modern, crossover Classical music scene. His playing is wonderful. I particularly like his clarinet playing and this leads me to the only very minor issue that I have with the Havana Moon recording. Clarinetist Mariam Adam sounds wonderful; particularly on the slower tempo and rhythmically loose pieces. On a couple of occasions, on the jazzier pieces I miss a little bit of the rhythmic incisiveness and swagger that Paquito would bring to the table. Still, lovely record which I am glad to have. Thanks very much. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0sLOMnnhQo8 Speaking of Tango and the influence on some of the music on Havana Moon. I have been wanting to post this for a while. I love this record: https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLK-eutyZMAleP1purAmyN9sp5nDKYbl4e |
The greatest ever (my favorite, anyway). Love that smile and attitude: https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLG43AKjG7s9pH-mVSwhckaZwXGpSABT1O¶ms=OAFIAVgP&v=gNXz5f... https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLG43AKjG7s9pH-mVSwhckaZwXGpSABT1O¶ms=OAFIAVgG&v=2JPnhw... |
Thanks ALL for the great music Talent deserving much greater recognition, and one of my faves! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gzAECuUgBI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JGQfUawJ_k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0iRQ1FAEiE |