Acman3 and jzzmusician, thanks for the great clips. Beautiful alto sound and tasty attitude from Leon Parker; not he kind of tone one usually hears in that kind of groove with just the right amount of "modern". Liked it a lot. And beautiful and heartfelt singing from Rene Marie. Good stuff, and, as always, no reason that the new can't mix with the traditional. Which goes to Alex's comments about the public's attitude toward art today. I have some thoughts that need simmering. Every town used to have a "town crier". I propose that Jafant be given the designation "jazz crier"'with his short and concise interjections and mentions of artists and factoids; sometimes serving to diffuse the silliness that creeps in here from time to time. Before "Summertime" became the beautiful jazz standard that it is, it was: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O7-Qa92Rzbk |
“The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ, Moves on: all your Piety or Wit Shall not lure it back to cancel half a Line, Nor will all your Tears wash out a Word of it.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kxuAZictJ4"The Rubaiyat of Dorothy Ashby" might be her greatest moment, I certainly know it has been my most listened to record. The words are so true, and everybody who has participated on this thread has been subjected to "The Moving Finger", for they have left a record that can not be altered; that is the way of The Moving Finger. Frogman's record is right here for everyone to see; while it began very good, somewhere along the way he was seduced by "The Imp of The Perverse", and became hostile; first it was Rok, and later on me. I mentioned something I observed in the Summer of 69, when a jazz musician who was a friend of mine, lived in my apartment; this was in regard to his practice habits which were nonexistent for that summer, although he performed professionally, three times a week. It meant zit to me whether he practiced or didn't practice, but Frogman, and Learsfool went on and on telling me how necessary it is to practice. Why did they go on and on about practicing, as if I was an advocate of not practicing. Although what they were talking about had absolutely nothing to do with me personally, they went on and on like two great "Energizer Bunnies" as though I was an advocate of not practicing, and they were so convincing, that they gathered more "Energizer Bunnies" along the way who went on and on; now I got a whole troupe, or tribe of them coming after me daily. The musician under discussion died in 71. He was not in good health the last time I saw him, and none of his "new" music was recorded; consequently, since I couldn't prove anything in regard to this music, revealing his name was pointless; but that didn't stop them from going on and on, recruiting new "Energizer Bunnies" along the way telling me how essential practice is, when they all should have gone to where he was buried and preached to him; he was the one who didn't practice. As silly as this was, there were no mirrors available for them to see it. After that, it became something about learning music. I don't know A-flat from B-flat, and not only that, I don't want to know. As an "Aficionado" of jazz records, knowing how to make music is not on my resume. I stated that they (Learsfool and Frogman) were free to teach, and those who wanted to learn were free to learn; but that wasn't good enough, I had to learn. None of those long diatribes had any thing to do with the music from an "Aficionado's" point of view in regard to collecting the best jazz records. Here again they collected new "Energizer Bunnies", all of them telling me that I should be eager to learn whatever Frogman and Learsfool were trying to teach. Can you imagine a whole flock of "Energizer Bunnies" deriding me for not wanting to learn, when nobody knew exactly what it was that I was supposed to learn, or they were trying to teach. Check Frogman's long diatribe on 03-10-2016 9:11 PM page 108,and tell me what that's about? That is followed by "Leersfool's" comment: "I am merely trying to correct a few of your most obvious misperceptions. I know you do not care about this, but it is not about you - it is for others that read this thread and who are interested in how music and musicians really work, of which there are clearly plenty." Frogman and Learsfool attached so many perceptions and misperceptions to me, that it wasn't even funny; when they got through with all those long diatribes about who I was, I had to look in the mirror to make sure I had not changed to the person they said I was. You can read on pages 107 and 108 how rediculous and absurd they became; especially when you consider what this thread was initially about; it's spelled out at the top of each page. This thread began in 2013, and went along just fine until Frogman and Learsfool thought it should encompass learning music, that was just fine with me, but I have learned all the music I want to know, and it beats the heck out of me why that's not good enough for them, even when they can teach anybody else who wants to learn. Their new "Energizer Bunnies" went on to state they didn't understand why Frogman and Learsfool should continue wasting their time trying to teach me. Whatever they were trying to teach, I didn't even ask to be taught in the first place. (How absurd can you get?) Enjoy the music. |
Frogman, in Re. to 4-28-2016, 11:21 PM, I asked an open question to any "Professional musician" who might know the answer; and what did you do; right off the bat you nullified the question, invented another scenario and never answered my honest question, even though you went through one of your usual long diatribes. (Page 121)
I had to answer my own question, which I did.
Once "the Moving Finger" write's, it's got you.
Enjoy the music.
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acman3,
I like your style.
Bob
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Frogman, I got a better idea for you, Learsfool, Acman, and Jzzmusician; START YOUR OWN THREAD. Now let me see your tact after that; but at any rate be sure to.
Enjoy the music.
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O-10, you did say that you were going on vacation. 😁
Technically its Rok's fault. He was left in charge, during your absence |
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I haven’t been a member here for very long. Maybe 4 months. I remember finding this site and especially this forum and what a wonderful day it was. For all of this time there has been a raging discussion on this forum about what "is" jazz and what "is not" jazz.
Here are some random thoughts.
There are those that say jazz "is this," and others that say jazz "is also that." Both are correct. Get this; my daughter just returned home after spending a year in Chile teaching English. We played some of the music she brought with her and I thought it was modern Latin jazz. She told me that the band was considered a "rock band." By my definition it was jazz. The country where the band was famous called it rock.
Go figure. It was still very cool music.
Jazz is impossible to define, but when you hear it you know if it is jazz or not.
Really, is it so difficult?
I think most would agree that the roots of jazz came from the blues. And the roots of the blues came from the slaves in the United States. If you think about it, what we thought of as music changed. We had the blues, and then jazz took hold. Miles Davis’ album "All Blues" is exactly that; all blues. It’s all blues, but it’s also jazz and most anybody that listens to it would identify it as jazz.
So if it’s the blues, is it jazz?
Jazz is big. It encompasses a lot of things.
I’ve been listening and playing jazz for 40 years. I don’t like all of it. But even the stuff I don’t like still falls under the umbrella of jazz. I’m okay with that. I hope that jazz, and all other genres continue to evolve. It's kind of what makes new music new. And I love new music.
-- Bob.
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Jazz, that was a very thoughtful post, and I concur with it 100%. Not even the very best jazz musicians agreed on what is, or is not jazz; who is some "johnny come lately" to tell us what is, or is not jazz? There has been, and there always will be disagreement on the answer to that question; however, when one person has too much influence over the answer, it even affects the music.
Rok, you were so right; every Thread needs an OP to discern the intentions and meaning of a thread; by allowing too much latitude, "I" let this thread get out of hand. As long as it stayed within "logical" parameters, it bounced along just fine, even with disagreements.
I think we all have enough sense to know what is, and what is not "out of bounds"; how ever if any "Aficionado" doesn't know, I will be on him like stink on s--t,
Enjoy the music.
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Acman, as usual, a very good musical contribution; no one can complain about this one, it's solid "in the pocket" good classic jazz, and up to date.
Enjoy the music.
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Jazz, I would like very much to hear some of the music your daughter brought home.
When it comes to music, I'm the wild one on this thread; I have music recorded in Australia, hundreds of years ago; you can hear the insects along with the "Didgeridoo" and the clicking sticks, as the Aborigines do their ceremonial dance.
Every now and then, I will find something close to what I have on "you tube" and present it. Nothing you have is too far out for us; if nothing else, it will be good for a laugh.
Enjoy the music.
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From the beginning this thread has had wide boundaries, that won't change. When an "Aficionado" gets completely out of those boundaries, as the OP, it's up to me to let them know about it; their options have already been spelled out. Since "They" know who they are, they don't have to stay gone; all is forgotten and forgiven, we don't even have to talk about the past; however ......................
This "Thread" has gone on for a very long time, we should all be well acquainted by now; meaning there is very little chance of misinterpretation; I don't say one thing and mean another, and by now I think we know where everyone is coming from. Ghosthouse, I know as soon as there is friction, you head for the door; that's a good policy, you'll live a long life, but don't stay gone.
Enjoy the music.
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Would somebody try to explain why this subforum has more than 1mil. views, couple of thausand posts and less than ten participants, recently anyway?
Is it because of jazz itself or is it about people and the type of discussion?
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Alex, this post is really all about orpheus 10, disguised as a thread about jazz. However, I think some of us follow this thread for the occasional discussion of jazz which involves music we have or would like or explore. It is fairly easy to overlook the chest thumping and pedantic contributors when they appear.
There is a lot of knowledge extant to be gained and it's free so why not just read and learn a bit. Just don't feed the animals when you walk by. :-)
As for the others, I believe that many just like to slow down to view the damage as they pass the scene of an accident. Lots to see I guess. |
Alex I don't believe Newbee has ever posted anything constructive on this thread, he only drops in when there's a "Bruha" and says the same thing; you can look up his posts if you like.
When there is any conflict on this thread, you can always count on dear old "Newbee" to make it worse.
In regard to your question, the answer is quite simple; we are the only "Jazz Aficionados" on this forum, the rest are "Newbees"
Enjoy the music.
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Just stumbled onto this thread and thought I'd contribute some of my favorites. I don't know if I know jazz, but I know what I like -- and right now I'm liking the sweet sound of Art Pepper's "Winter Moon."(*) His saxophone work on "The Prisoner (Eyes of Laura Mars)" and "Moon River" is some of his finest. Generally jazz musician + string section = an embarrassment, I will admit. But Pepper's raw emotion and technical prowess cut through any hints of schmaltz: it's a wonderful album and a great way to start a morning.
("Winter Moon" on AIFF 16/44.1 from CD; iTunes via Mac Pro 3.1 ToSLINK: FiOO Tashan converter to RCA; Technics SA-200; Klipsch Fortes). |
Ken, as long as you know what you like, that's all that counts.
"Winter Moon" even sounds like Art Pepper, dark and brooding. Although I never met the man or saw him live, I felt that I knew him, that's because of his very revealing autobiography.
It's easy to see how you could get so absorbed in Art Pepper; I've been into jazz all my life, and this is a first for me in regard to this side of Art Pepper. This proves a person doesn't have to go to the latest music in order to find something new.
Enjoy the music.
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Thank you Acman for posting "Winter Moon"; this is the link to "The Prisoner" that we didn't post before.
om/watch?v=5utT5yiQAOo
It's a continuation of the side of Art Pepper I do not have in my collection.
Enjoy the music.
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An artist like "Art Pepper" has as many facets as a diamond; consequently we can not get into all of them at the same time, that means we have to come back to the facets we missed. When he was alive and doing his thing, I was doing mine; now that I am old, and his thing is all I have to do, I can catch up on what he was doing, and what his thing was about. From spending time in LA when Art was doing his thing, I know there are fantastic musicians out there I heard at clubs, but never heard of before or since; that's in regard to the people he recorded with on his many different albums that I know nothing about. Great jazz musicians are deep individuals, and we don't know them even when, or if one is close to such a musician; but thankfully they left their music behind. That last link didn't work, maybe this one will. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtRNxePV5VsEnjoy the music. |
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Frogman, I'm glad you're back. I'm going to give each one of your links a thorough listening, and get back to you with my review.
Enjoy the music.
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Frogman, that clip you posted of "Summertime" was so fantastic that I played it over and over; the girl singing was exquisitely beautiful. I discovered the "exquisitely" beautiful voice did not belong to the lady singing, but you can't have everything.
Enjoy the music.
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For anyone who enjoys music from the swing era, but is no all that engaged by the sound of big bands prevalent in the 30's and 40's, you might enjoy music by Scott Hamilton and his Quartet (or Quintet). A few of the CD's that I enjoy are 'Race Point', 'Radio City', and more recently 'My Romance', but there are so many to pick from that are equally good.
In the same style, look up some of Dick Hyman's solo piano CD's. Four that come to mind that I really enjoy are Reference Recording's 'Dick Hyman plays Duke Ellington', 'Dick Hyman in Recital', "From the Age of Swing' and Concord Jazz' 'Music of 1937' Music of 1937'.
FWIW, CJ's Maybeck Hall series contains a lot of great jazz for those who like solo piano. I highly recommend its exploration.
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Another album of above mentioned Thad Jones that I can recommend. It is called 'After Hours' from 1957. The album is recorded with realy great line up that also includes Kenny Burrell,Art Taylor, Paul Chambers, Mal Waldron and Frenk Wess. It is a great, relaxed session, sextet jam, all numbers are quite long and there is space for all men to play their solos. https://youtu.be/pAI3jmbSBrghttps://youtu.be/uWRZVUAhroA |
Thrilled to see mention of the Thad and Mel band. Had the pleasure of hearing the band when Thad was still here about half a dozen times; amazing band. Great YouTube clip! It some subtle and some not so subtle ways it goes to so much of what we argue about here. Bottom line: there's always great music going on; its up to us to keep up with it, not the other way around.
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Mel Lewis had one of the most distinctive time feels as a drummer; particularly his cymbal sound. Very relaxed but with good forward momentum.
Loved the Jones "After Hours" clips. Thad Jones was a beautiful jazz player who could have been one of THE names that always comes up on "best jazz trumpet" lists and whose excellence and success as a writer and orchestrator took some of the limelight off of his playing. Great stuff!
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The only Dick Hyman I own. I think I got this one in order to fill out an order from the old BMG Record club. Buying at least four, brought the price down to about 7.50 per disc. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aXCy7yu0RwCheers |
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Bought this for my wife after hearing "This Is (Not) A Protest Song" on WBGO a couple of days ago (Acman3 posted a live version of the tune recently) thinking she would really like this singer. This is without a doubt one of the best, most complete, albums that I have heard in some time; new or old. This woman is an amazing talent; great singer who writes her own material. Her writing is killer; great tunes with interesting and unexpected melodic and harmonic twists and turns that cover quite a wide range of styles. Mostly jazz but also strong shades of gospel and even country. The rare singer who can do a torch song justice and can also sing a ballad with tenderness and nuance; oh, she can swing like the best and can be sexy as hell. Did I say I like this singer? The band is killer. Check out Sherman Irby (alto) on the title cut; amazing solo and a perfect example of telling a story with the fewest notes and the most "pocket". My new favorite record. Can’t say enough good things about it and an absolute must have; especially for anyone who still has any doubts whether there is good jazz being created today or whether it has a future. For my money this record belongs on the list of the best jazz vocals records ever; it is that good. https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLMc5W-p_zXiIIKFYmVTxmacQYQ9zNbYjF&v=FO5yVP-BcM8 |
Thanks for the post. I will order this record immediately. FWIW she has been my favorite jazz singer for over 10 years now - I don’t know how I missed this CD. |
Frogman, after that write up, wild horses couldn't stop me from listening to this album all the way through. Without a doubt, it is one of the best vocal jazz albums ever. In addition to all that you mentioned, I like the fact that she writes her own material. Some other vocalists with fantastic voices should take note of that; especially those who scat inappropriately on certain standards.
Enjoy the music.
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Another Female vocalist I have liked lately is Sari Kessler. Hopefully someone will play something from her new recording on youtube soon. |
Acman, I was able to sample her CD "Do Right" with Houston Person and others, and I liked it. In addition to "You Tube", if she could get WSIE Radio 88.7 FM to play her CD's, that would certainly help to give her more exposure.
These artists don't have to have a record company anymore, and that will certainly help their bottom line. Rap Artists are driving Lamborghini's and living in Beverly Hills, and I'm talking about the one's I don't even know anything about; what I'm saying is that when you make and market your own product, you can count your own money, and that's what these new artists are doing.
Sari Kessler will make it big I'm sure; she's got some of the best people with her and she's going to "Do Right".
Enjoy the music.
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Acman, you're the only Aficionado who has consistently posted new music, and I regret I haven't reviewed it all, but I intend to rectify that.
Brian Bromberg plays good solid straight ahead jazz of a very high caliber; it's the kind of music demanding Aficionados like Frogman, Rok, and Alex can appreciate. I'm hoping that Frogman can give us a review from a professional jazz musician's point of view.
According to "Wiki", Brian Bromberg (born December 5, 1960, in Tucson, Arizona) is an American jazz bassist and record producer who performs on both electric and acoustic instruments. He has a varied resume when it comes to types of jazz (the man sounds like a survivor to me) This album "Full Circle" is boss, I'm still listening to it, and it's just keeps getting better.
Enjoy the music.
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Today's Listen -- LAUGHIN' TO KEEP FROM CRYIN' Lester Young, Roy Eldridge, Harry Edison, Hank Jones, Herb Ellis Great Album by a bunch of up and coming players. Ellis seems to engage in some "quoting" on his solo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrXHu4elT5E
BTW, Led Zeppelin was taken to court recently for excessive "quoting".
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Herb Ellis is by all means quite known name in jazz world and yet dispite that I do not recall that we mentioned him here often. There are few of his albums that I like, here are the links... 'Thank you Charlie Christian' from 1960. https://youtu.be/pjG4jxYIJNc'Softly, but with that feeling' from 1961. https://youtu.be/rjTwFBSjSewThere is album called 'Midnight Roll' from 1962. (H.E. and the all stars) that he made as a part of octet, not something that he usually does, together with Roy Eldridge, Buddy Tate, Ray Bryant and others, but could not find it on ytube. I can recommend it as well. |
Rok, I had almost forgotten how good that generation of jazz sounded; they played like they were born speaking the language of jazz. It's no wonder why all those musicians are revered. Thanks for a most appreciated contribution.
Enjoy the music.
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