That was my reaction to the Teles.You might try the Shuguang triple-mica G8/G9s.The driver tubes can moderate this effect (12au s ?),maybe the Mazda /Clifte french military. |
I agree..I never liked Tele tubes in my Jadis..I run 1950s Mullard 12ax7s and black plate RCAs with greater presentation..Well worth the price of admission.. |
It has been such a long time since experimenting with tubes other than Tele's in my Jadis JP80 that I have mostly forgotten the differences. I do recall prefering the openess, greater delineation, and tauter bottom end begot from the Tele's. I have sampled Mullards, Siemans, GE, Sylvania, amperex and a few others, but always came back to the Tele's. I must add that I have had the preamp heavily modified by Great Northern Sound, having increased the frequency extension, top and bottom. The Jadis does seem to have lost some of it's golden beauty, but the presentation, to me, just seems more like real music. |
The Teles and Siemens are known for their transparency, and faithfulness to the original signal. If you desire to retain the clarity in the top end/spacious sound stage, etc., but want to add some warmth in the mids: Try some of the NOS Amperex/Bugle Boy or Philips/Miniwatt offerings(both from Holland): (http://www.tubeworld.com/12ax7.htm) Nothing new(especially from china) can compare sonically. |
In my DA30 and DA30, the Teles were OK, but not my favorite. I didn't give them enough time to analyze things in 100% detail, frankly, because I didn't feel the desire to since the sound was not magical in the way some others were.
I much prefer 5751 variants, they seem to really be able to make a Jadis come alive.
For the record, about 15 of us got together at my home and had a 12AX7 tube shootout using the DA60. Interestingly enough, while a 5751 was the winner, the dirt cheap Shuguang Triple Mica 12AX7 made it into the final round of three. So, if money is an issue... |
Well, I still prefer the Teles (I think they are the best overall performers through the entire frequency range), but my ears are different than yours. I agree with Rodman that Amperex Bugle Boy tubes would probably add some of the warmth you crave. I used them for the 6DJ8s in the phono stage of my preamp, liked them best of all tubes in that position, but unfortunately they eventually would become noisy in less than a year. My experiences with Mullards in my JP80 (not the JA80s, where I liked them) was not so good, but I have the feeling I might not have had the real thing, based on others' comments about them. |
My experience mirrors that what Rodman and Rcprince have to say. In my Jadis days I stuck to the Teles and spent a fortune on finding the right Amperexes for my phono section. Cannot recall exactly if I finally settled for pinched waists until they also turned noisy. |
In my older Defy7 I prefer NOS Tungsol 5751 with ecc82 TFK driver. The second possibility could be TFK ecc83 with NOS RCA black plate 12au7. When all seting composed from total TFKs the sound lacks timbre, basis and air.
>Milimetr try 5751 in JA80 monoblocks? |
If you want to try this combination:
JP-80MC in the Line Stage:
1st Tube; 12AX7 Tongsol
2nd Tubu: 12AX7 Tongsol
3rd Tube; 5751
please let me know.... Pierre Gabriel |
---> Pierre
- how do you identify first tube in the JP80 preamplifier line stage - counting left to right? I thought that left and right tubes should be the same and the center tube may differ like (it is positioned with pins toward other side).
- What Tundgols do you suggest - can it be gold pins from current production? I heard good opinions about them.
- I have 5751 JAN GE - I used them before in DA88S.
- Waht input tubes do you recommend for inputs in JA80.
I forgotten to mention that the set is 25th Anniversary Gold special edition - a little different than standard edition, but it does not matter in tube rolling.
So far I returned in preamp to stock Electro Harmonix and overall prefer them than Teles in preamp. |
-- Right to the Left
-- Tung-Sol 12AX7 new stock,current production, not with gold pin, it push the top end.
-- 5751 Jan GE, it is the good one
Pierre Gabriel |
It is coincidentle that in the DA-60 I have that both 12AX7s are current production Tung Sol steel pin. I swap these for Sylvania triple mica blabk plates from the lat 50s. I just had some fresh looking RCA Command 5751s which were simply to fragile and break up fast. Perhaps good for a guitar but not my amp. The 12AU7s right now as an experiment are Telefunkens ECC82 but I am much more pleased when the Heerlen 7316s are in those positions. !Simply holographic!
I almost had a fit when I heard distortion at moderate-low volumes thinking it was the expensive TS KT-88s I put in for over $400.
Thank goodness it was an older tube that tested well but was a variant of the double mica 5751 RCAs Which are much older but appeared at least close o NOS. The amp is truly a very powerful circuit I bought a sleeve some were NOS the others used. It is an older amp but has no cmplaints held up quite well during this last year. A 60 watt amp has no business sounding like a 100 or more wpc. The reputation for thin weak sounding amps went away with the Ei KT-90s it used to use. That I had intended to replace with EL34s. The a very concise and no nonesense recommendation from Jim McShane thus the Gold Lion KT-88s |
I tried Amperex, Mullard, Tele and four others I do not recall now - The Telefunkens NOS were the winners in my system for a DA50S both in the 12Au and 12AX sections.
Closer to them were a set of Amperex Buggle boys, a little dry in my opinion compared to the magic of the Telefunkens IMO.
Regards, |
The magical part of Telefunkens is that they speak clearly and ennuciate. The tube halographic layered imaging is not all that Telefunken like, not at all. They are very neutral to cool and do the job with precision which may be in fact all you expect your tubes to do.
I like tubes that are alive with some soul, some emotion, that draw you in, and keep you listening. If a tube makes you want say "man is this a great stereo or what" that's where the the tough hunt for a decent pair, getting burned paying a hard dollars worth . The hassle of buying old tubes pays off big time and you forget the B.S. and I say it's worth it.
I hope for and find the emotion with 7136s in 12AU7 positions, by definition Amperex, and the best 5751 I have in my possession -the obvious pick, Raytheon's famed windmill version are telefunkens of 5751a, but a 1950s Sylvania triple mica blackplate truly warms your soul.
Non Jadis related but exemplary, I found that every time I have put Sylvania Chrome domes in my pre amp. I am referring to the W construction types. Only The top getter with gobs of chrome flashing tubes found on the very early 40s GTs or Ws or the oldest of the 6SN7. It has 6SN7W on base and an A etch in the glass n.b. not the GTA although I have a few pairs of GTAs with the W no rod type chrome dome which are very much like the others. The later GTAs have angled "triangle" plates and a very different sound. These tubes the chromed chrome domes really boxed plated with a welled t fin on the bacl which are facing each other, produces music that has the power to make everything going on no mtter how good or troubling only good. All seems well. Now that is one magical tube..
Pardon the poetic rapture.
If the recording blows , the magic ain't there, but anything is reasonably well engineered/pressed glues me to my seat and I just can't help a smug smile. Even with compositions I never loved, I love it then and listen to all of it.
A gear head maybe so who said that was so bad. |
Mr M- Since you've brought up one of my favs(the Sylvania 6SN7W); I have to mention the three(really two) iterations of that tube, the shorter one of which I couldn't get out of my amps fast enough(no impact or depth, thin and strident). The tall bottles may have the black or metal base, a "W" or "A" suffix, but sound identical(and wonderful). You realize we just increased their price and decreased their availablity by letting that cat out of the bag, right? |
