No I am not called the Tele, Siemens, Amperex, Mullards, ~~~ over rated trash~~~next to the Shugaung T's..., Please do not misread me,,,,,,tongueincheek.....
Jadis Defy can't sing with super high Fidelity PART 2
Why part 2?
Because she sings now, why?
Just arrived
Shugaung 12AX7T's from HK, dealer Douk audio,
WOWWW, unreal, IMHO no other 12AX7 comes even close to these Shugaung T's,. I mean this Defy in spite of the cheap chinese mock Jadis 200 pre, the Defy has come to a glorious resolution.
I had no idea the front tubes were so so vital toa sound ofa tube amp.
I am using new Psvane's 12AU7 in the front, 4 12AX7T's just behind.
UNREAL.
I will makea YT vid today, and post it, and try to post a link here.
https://www.amazon.com/Matched-Shuguang-12AX7-T-Premium-High-end/dp/B01EFYT84U
I put my bet on these Shugaung 12AX7T's in a shootout with every NOS EU 12AX7, any and all ina shootout,
in 5 seconds or LESS the Shugaung would blow the entire bunch of Siemens, Tele, Amperex, Mullards, all with ONE SHOT, .
These Shu are the quickest , most accurate, gun shooter in the west.
Because she sings now, why?
Just arrived
Shugaung 12AX7T's from HK, dealer Douk audio,
WOWWW, unreal, IMHO no other 12AX7 comes even close to these Shugaung T's,. I mean this Defy in spite of the cheap chinese mock Jadis 200 pre, the Defy has come to a glorious resolution.
I had no idea the front tubes were so so vital toa sound ofa tube amp.
I am using new Psvane's 12AU7 in the front, 4 12AX7T's just behind.
UNREAL.
I will makea YT vid today, and post it, and try to post a link here.
https://www.amazon.com/Matched-Shuguang-12AX7-T-Premium-High-end/dp/B01EFYT84U
I put my bet on these Shugaung 12AX7T's in a shootout with every NOS EU 12AX7, any and all ina shootout,
in 5 seconds or LESS the Shugaung would blow the entire bunch of Siemens, Tele, Amperex, Mullards, all with ONE SHOT, .
These Shu are the quickest , most accurate, gun shooter in the west.
43 responses Add your response
OK so swaped out the Philips tall bottle ECC83F SPECIAL QUALITY for the new Pscane 12AU7,,,all the super high fidelity completely totally 100% vanished into thin air, Now here is the $1T Q? How much super hi fidelity is resulting from the Philips ECC80F Tall Bottle Special quality and how much fidelity is from the Shugaung,, IOW which tubes is creating the magic?? I can not experiement, as i shipped all my amperex BB 12AX7 NOS tubes to a guy selling on ebay. So it will remaina mystery, Just how good the Shugaung really are, i might not ever know,,,Unless you want to send me some NOS for testing and i will ship back. I will pay both ship fees,. I can tell you this, the Philips tall bottle Special Quality ECC80 is creating some magic. The Psvane 12AU are worthless vs the Philips |
The tube says SQ special quality E80CC the other side has Philips Minwatt E80CC Made in Holland Yes I had a a hunch the Philips SQ and Amperex PQ’s are somehow connected/same factory/same quality. So I may try to not chase the Philips miniwatt’s up on bid at ebay, swiss sell has like 10 pairs,,I am winning on 3 pairs, but i know they go for $200/pr and i am at $35+ship, so I may not chase those Philips Miniwatt 12ax7 and go look for amperex PQ(premiun quality) as a cheaper substitue/same tube. Wonder if the tall Siemens E80CC tall bottle are same quality sopund repro, as Philips tall bottle, ??? I bought 4 more Philops tall and also 2 Siemens tall bottle. Overseas seller, will arrive in 2 weeks, will makea A/B with Philips. ~~~@lowrider57~~ Yes my hunch says it really does not matter which 12ax7 is behind the Philips SQE80CC as it is the PSQ making most if not all the magic happen,,as the Amperex BB’s (shipped off to a guy selling on ebay for me) and the new Psvane 12AU’s, neither lab comes even close to the Philips SQ, Faith Hill’s voice comes incredible alive with passion. No snakeoil/hype here, I am telling you its like Night/day. I had no idea the 2 front AU’s were that soniaclly important in sound quality. I could have used every other AU in the world, Tele/Siemens etc etc,,and the Defy would remain DEO ,,,that is until the P SQ’s came to breathe life into the Jadis. Yes , it is that dramatic in resolution. bass is unreal,,and get this,,the vol on the **Cheap chinese tube pre** is on little gain, I mean i could easily live with this **cheap** chinese Lite LS9 pre,,its not so cheap now, had I used these Philips SQ’s in my JOR, I may not have sold it off. = the JOR would have suited me just fine,,i did not need this 70lb Defy7. I think when word gets out about these NOS/old stock P SQ’s, the prices will jump double over night. I am loading up now, All tall bottle EC80’s will be hot items. I have Siemens tall’s arriving in 2 weeks,,will test vs the P SQ’s. I will definetly sell off this Lite LS9 pre and buy the Cayin SC6 Mark2,,which employs 4 ~~~AU7’s~~~ as drivers. Will dump the stock cayin tubes and place in PSQ or Siemens tall bottle. I am trying to buy some P 12AX or Amperex PQ’s, to test against the Shugaung 12AX7T’s. The Psvane AU’s look identical to the Shu AX7T’s construction. My hunch is the Shu T series is really not so special in sound resolution, when in fact the P SQ is making all the magic haoppen. and so i need to know if the PSQ 12AX7 and/or the Amperex PQ 12AX7 ~~~possess this same magical quality as the PSQE80CC. I can return the Au’s fora partial reffund to the US seller, but the 4 Shu I purchased from Douk/HK = return too expensive. If I hear only slight dif in rolling AX’s, i will sell off the Philips/Amperex, and keep the Shu12AX7T’s. |
OK, now I'm with you. https://www.ebay.com/c/7017859417 You have Miniwatts. I have the Philips 7316 SQ, same as Amperex PQ. These are the premium 12AU7's. You're right, Philips Miniwatts have a great sound and are affordable. I have a pair but they are short bottle. |
~~~Premium~~~ AU's,,,,well I kinda of think they area special design AU = very unlike the short bottle = designed to push the AU to its very limits. I say thise because i'd bet any other short bottle would not match the magic of the Big Boys (=Tall Bottle = PSQe80CC). From the way these Philips ((((= same factory as Amperex = Amperex makes the tube FOR Philips = still i consider it Philips and not Amperex..why? because Philips engineers had something to do with the design = NOT Amperex))) Considering how well these *mini watts SQ sounded,,i went and bid/won a whole bunch of Philips Miniwatts AX's today on ebay,,,any of you bidding, yeah it wwas I out bidding you. I havea nice stash and will only need 4, the other 10 I will sell at a nice price..I am gambling on the PSQAX, that is also merits the magic of its bigger brother the E80CC = The tall boy. I'm guessing on a hunch,,we will see in some weeks (comming from Swizerland). It will be a shootout New design Shugaung 12AX7T vs Philips NOS Miniwatt AX. Repeating what i wrote above and other threads here on audiogon/also on DIYer forum, The PSQ E80CC is the center piece of my entire system, = SEAS Thos/Cayin 17/jadis Defy are all dependent and revolve around the ~~~PSQE80CC.~~ = w/o the PSQE80CC, the entire system is dead. At least with this Lite LS9 chinese pre,,,, = lets add a Prima Luna pre with 6 au's, using any NOS tube (other than the PSQ),,,or the cayin SC6 pre,,,its quite possible the system will come to life. But lets think about it, I havea serious weakness in my system, the Lite LS9 clone Jadis 200, (weighs 10 lbs vs the real deal Jadis pre weighs 50+ lbs) anyway,,if the PSQ can make magic with this weak pre,,,think what 6 PSQ ina Prima Luna or 4 in the cayin SC6 would do??? Unthinkable. Off the charts.. I suggest, if someone is considering buyinga tube amp/pre,,make sure has AU section. When the Philips Miniwatts AX's (= PMWAX hench forth) arrive i am curious how much the Shugaung is adding to the system (or taking away) and how the PMWAX performed. This way I can determine to what degree the PSQE80CC is carrying the magic. That is, if i can not hear much dif twix the Shu vs the PMWAX,,then i know for certian, it really does not matter which AX is employed, AS LONG AS THE AU section has the PSQE80CC, as The Critical Pre Tube. I believe it was lowrider57 who mentions the AU is the critical tube for a tube amp. That is more can be gained froma true high fidelity AU than a true high fidelity AX. I agree. The AU section holds the key position ijna tube amp. I will go futher,,,w/o a true high fidelity AU, it really does not matter what AX's/power tubes one is running. Let me be clear, a $500 pair Tele or Siemens in the AX section along with *Holy Grails* power tubes,,,will not make much of a ~~splash~~~ until one emplys a true high fidelity AU,,the top dog THF(= truehighfidelity = no snakeoil/no hype= The real deal) is the PSQE80CC. all other AU's (yes even the Siemens/Tele $$$$$$$$$ Holy Grail AU's) will lose in a shootout with ~~The Big Boys~~ = PSQE80CC. as I say my system's true center piece in not Jadis, not SEAS, not cayin, but the PSQE80CC holds center stage. It is the Sun in my system;s solar system. All else are like planets revolving around the PSQE80CC. Hope some of this can be understood. ,,later |
The factories were owned by Philips. They were the parent company and manufactured Philips tubes, Miniwatt, Amperex, Radiotechnique, Valvo, and Mullard UK. And a tall bottle tube does not mean it has superior sonics. Short bottle tubes can have either short plates or long plates, O-getters or D-getters. The tooling inside the bottle dictates the sonics. The Amperex 7316 PQ Foil-getter (short bottle) is their premium industrial tube and currently costs about $300 per tube. https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649354167-rare-d-getter-7316-amperex-tube-highest-quaility-ulima... I agree the Miniwatt PQ/SQ is a best buy. It may be the best of the Miniwatts and 12AU7 Bugle Boys. |
well i am happy with the PSQE80CC, ,, I'm seekinga great AX. I have the Shu T' series, really fantastic looking build,,,have some Philips Miniwatts comming anda friend is sending me his fav the RCA tall grey plate,,not sure which design,,Hopefully its like the RCA/Baldwin/1957's,, what a great beefy looking build. He says it is what i am looking for..so that will bea shootout with 3 top design tubes. ,,I'll post the results.,,,I am only keeping 1 quad,, the other 2 will be sold off. ,,my days of collecting tubes are over. . |
Now i am working on finding a super special 12AX7 for the Defy 7,,,no, not just any old AX,,I am looking for the Holiest of Holy Grails. RCA long greys? PQ amperex? Shugaung T series? No one can say for sure unitl i roll these 3 pairs in 3 weeks. Will post findings. Only 1 gets the cigar,,the other 2 are set for the chopping block. I don't collect tubes, sorry, those days are gone, You go ahead and collect, Not me, 1 set is all i need |
OK, she's singing now, and I have alotttttt of mods/upgrades to make in my entire system. I want 1st off to thank whoever mentioned that the AU section tubes is the biggest gain for pre amp section, NOt the AX section, he is correct, when i swapped out the AU's for E80CC's, the sound fq resolution increased DRAMATICALLY, Like Night to bright sunshine. The AX section, I am not hearing much a dif twix, Siemesb $$$$$$$ tubes vs any old AX (except NOT cheap chinese and russian AX's which are both worthless trash). All NOS tubes made in the late 50's, 60's are ALL EQUAL IMHO, = Do not drink the snakeoil about Siemens. Sure they area miniscle better, possibly,,I am in a long testing period of AX;s. At the end of the testing, in about 4 months,, it is my belief my theory of ALL NOS AX;'s are EQUAL,,will prove true. The real deal ina AU/AX pre section is the critical AU's. as someone here , maybe in this thread, mentioned is the CRITICAL tube in the Jadis Defy7. = no need to spend $$$$$$$ in the AX section, any old NOS, RCA/Amperex, Tele, Siemens/Philosp, Syvania, etc etc,,will work just fine.. My purpose of this post is to take some of the snakeoil out the sellers market in *Holy grail* AX tubes. Its all bunk, snakeoil. The true Holy Grail is the Crwon Jewel of all AU's, the E80CC. I have Siemens and Philips SQ. The Siemens givea miniscule edge over the Philips = Equal. ou can see and hear my stereo in action @3:30 is a shot of the incredible ~~~SUPER TUBE~~~~ The E80CC. Tungstom, Philips, Tele, Siemens, = Equal. AX's NOS = Equal, save your cash. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh9nf1GTM9Y |
Ok I'm back from Dinner Now if we havea tech guy take 5 dif ax's, all NOS, amperex/Tele/Siemens/RCA's etc. and have each tested,, and lets say all test within a fraction of each other in every area. The tech guy will say they will be near equal in a socket. If we are talking about miniscule dif, why should we believe its worth it to pay, <<Holy grail>> prices? As I say, my preamp is holding back my system, and until that is rectified, i really can not make accurate testings in the AX's shoot out. There ae AX long plates ad short plates, Here is where I hope to makea testing. I am curious if the long plates issue a higher resolution in fq's. But then again, long is onlya fraction taller than so called <short> plates, As I say, with my preamp holding back the entire system's sensitivity, it will be some time before i can make any conclusive statements upon these ideas. Others who have rolled AX's for years, may know something and hopefully will chime in to help us on this slippery slope. And so we can determine which is snakeoil, and what is ~~The real deal~~~ |
As you can see from the YT upload, cayin cd 17 Mark1 Lite LS9 pre Defy7/Chinese KT88's ARC ~rejects~ Seas Thors. The Lite LS9 is flat and distorts,,and thats with high quality amperex 7062 NOS tubes. I will have Richard Grey do some mods on the Cayin, swapping the Real caps for Mundorf's Silver/Gold Oil (white body, not the black supremes), I will upload another YT vid tomorrow. I am waiting on 2 more Siemens AX's to arrive any day. The shootout with be Sylvania AX , Philips Miniwatt AX and Siemens. AX. |
12AX7 is very different than the 12AU7 and each serves a different purpose. AX7 is a high gain tube often used to drive the output tubes in an amp. The 12AU7 is the soul of the amp or preamp; it produces most of the sonic signature. Due to the AX7's high gain they may have increased noise compared to other tubes. You should always request low-noise tubes. The dealer tests each tube for noise. Longplates may be more open with better dynamics. They also may have better bass performance. These are early production tubes from the 1940s and 50s. Short plates are 2nd generation and were designed to be less susceptible to microphonics. With some brands you may not hear a difference between the two. But some brands such as RCA will have noticeably different sound. Blackplates (long) are more lush, have a bigger soundstage and are more dynamic than short grey plates. |
In the process of testing Philips miniwatt ax's,, Sylavnia, and have some rebranded Siemens arriving next week. Trying to get a few RCA's long black plates. will take some months to gather some opinions. as the preamp distorts the fq's, its pretty hard to get a solid opinion. I really need to get the cayin SC6 to gather solid evidence as to how each tube voices the fq's. Right now, i am of the opinion ~~~most every old stock tube are very close in voicing, with only a subtle dif, = meaning , why spend $$$$$ ona old tube,w hen others can be had for less than 1/2 the price? ~~My 2nd opinion, not based on solid evidence as yet, is that the ~~~Siemens may offer the finest nuances in mids/highs~~ That not by much,,,raisiing the Q<<Is it really worth it to pay near $100 fora old stock AX tube? I should confess right here, that my hearing is not perfect, thus limiting my ability to hear the slightest nuances in the ax's. The refinery where work, hgavea hearing test, which showed i have loss in registering the highest fq's. balancing out this hearing loss is my experience of some 30 yrs in speaker shootouts. I know what high fidelity is, and what lacks. My system is a class B sound,, But hope to bring it to Class A/B by the end of this year. The Defy is certainly the star of the show, requiring all back up support to come up to Class A/B. The Thors need new xovers. The cayin Cd17 is about to go off to Richard Grey's shop for new caps. along with the solid copper posts, etc etc. I have my work cut out and will post YT vids as these mods are employed. The mic in this cheap camera, is holding back what is being presented in the room, yet you should be able to hear how poor the preamp is voicing the entire system, Which leads to this conclusion. ~~The weakest link/unit in your system, will hold <<Center Stage Spot light>>, IOW the <<singer>> in my system is the Lite LS9 Preamp. The weakest ubit in your system will produce the colration to the entire system. Ck ourt all the Jadis systems at Audio Exhibitions, the rooms have 100K Jadis sets ups, and yet the sound comes across as class C, if not class D. Why is this? The speakers Jadis employs in these audio shows are class D speakers. So although the jadis units are all Class AAA, by employing Class D speakers, the system is dragged down to ~~~Class D sound~~~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh9nf1GTM9Y |
Just cking the new Defy 7 well actually it is a quite dif design, as the PA employs 4 AU's,/2 AX's,. whereas the Defy has 2 AU's and 4 AX;s..I'd perfer 4 AU's, as then i could swap out the crappy AU's for the incredible E80CC;s, WOW 4 E80's in one amp,,, UNREAL,,also I noted Bluebirds listing of the PA,,which says **2 Ecc83/4 Ecc83*** obvioulsy they are nor proof reading the text. also i noted ,,,~~120 lbs~~~, I had tio again go to jadis' page to double ck this figure,,its correct,,~~120 lbs~~~, wayyyyyyy too heavy for my wishes. I think Jadis madea huge error there..as the Defy was at the very breaking point of ~~over weight~~~,,at over 70 lbs,, the Defy is a a beast to move around. I mean how many Jadis techs are in your area?? None near New Orleans,,although i have a local tech who works on tube amps and am certain he would not have a problem repairing ~~~IF~~ she broke down,(note the ~~IF~~ = jadis builds like german tanks = indestructible = never breaks). also havea tech guy in Baton Rouge who also could work on the Defy,,~~IF~~ EVER~~~ that ~~did happen~~ to come up,,,but still, who wants to loada 120 lb amp in the acr???? Not me thats for sure. The weight of 120 is a huge issue for me, and i am sure for others. FEDEX,,,well actually if i did buy one,,i'd drive to Bluebird,,well not wait,,,the only seller is Brooks in Cali,,thats too far,,and who wanst FEDEX,,,no wait,,has to go crate = $$$$$$$$ shipping fees, = completely rediculous. Had i seen the specs for this design,,i'd have told Jadis ~ain't gonna sell as many with that monsta weight~~~, But its too late now,,its a done deal. No wonder the only Defy used is selling at 6500, past year,,he aint budging lower and note,,,no others for sale. Once you sell it, what if you want to upgarde,,to a PA100? = not a option as the weight is a huge issue now. Anyway my 2 cents,,,My cayin cdp just got back with 8 M caps installed, and has made a ~~~significant~~ mod in sonics,,,,have 8 more caps to go in,,,,,just waiting for M to list the .022 cap. IMHO new M caps offer a much greater mod than a tube upgrade,,,with the lone exception of E80's going in the AU section,and maybe Tele's in the AX section vs all other branded AX's. There are quitea few tech geeks who are of the opinion ~~new Caps ain;t gonna make any dif~~~. = ~~if it ain't broke, don't fix it~~ theory. Well from my experience new M SGO caps made a huge sonic mod. With the new M caps the Spakoslab discrete opamps can not ~~sing~~,,= stock Real caps in cayin , blocked the Spakoslab ops from opening up,,,which i knew the ops were crippled by the cheap stock Real caps installed by Cayin. Caps were like $300/tech fee $250, well worth it. |
OK so the Defy will ~~~NOT ~~~ accept the E80's as a swap for the REQUIRED 12AU7,,,so my tech guy here in new orleans also did some reserach and explains ~~Some curcuits may accepta swap of the AU for the E80,,but not the Defy~~~, so thats that,,gotta dump my stash of E80's on ebay, got about 50 of em. Prices just reduced from 130 to 45 each...anyway,,he is now cking to see if the Defy will take the 150's, which i know will, and he is cking the bias,,as i bought 12 froma ebay seller who buys stuff 2nd hand, these tubes were tested at ARC and some say *bad* *archs* etc,,but all in all most are good. They were ARC's *rejects* nothing really wrong with em,,got em for a good price,,will post follow up,,,he says the amp was distortuing badly,,but i figured it was the preamp when turned above 1/3 vol gain,,,. anyway,,,i'll keep everyone posted on updates. Just a pair of the 150's with 4 88's one channel, madea HUGE sonic gain,,so i am expecting the Defy with 150's to be a ~~Mind Blower~~~..now gotta find some Tele AU's in my stash, |
OK new YT vid with M SGO EVO the Sparksolab opamps can now finally open up and sing their magic...My theory is, a weak link can cripple stronger components within a system. The cheap 2 cent caps in the pre, blocked the magic of the Sparksolab.descrete ops. 12 M SG caps for the Defy7 on the way. = big brothers to the SGO EVO, about 40% more for the 12 caps, value is .47uf. ,. Audiogon member highly recommended go with the non oil SG caps,,so canceled the Oil and ordered the non oil,,they are larger,,my local tech guy Randy Cohen, in St Rock area of New Orleans, may have to stand them up, or go sideways install. bass /highs are good/clean. Mids a tiny bit stressed. My goal since late 1970's has been zero fatigue,,which has now been acheived. as i mention in the vid, 88/90/120/150's, all pretty close, We are talking nuances in each. My 20th C classical composers collection is worth the extra expense of the 150's and I'd say the $800 investment was well worth it. A *nuance* superior over the 88's,,but when you add a tad here,,a bit there = nice sonic gains. After randy installs the M caps in the Defy7, will upload another YT vid,,My comment sections are blocked due to a CV vid i made and am now censored for life. *disruptaive dis-information* No big deal, Plan to add a cayin SC6 pre, shootout Lite LS9 and Cayin SC6, one stays the other sold off. last note, these M caps in the pre, really opened up the system. Contrary to some tech geeks on YT, with high tech testing data which claims a cap is a cap is a cap, *as my tests show near equal*,,,there is some nuances/musicality which test equipment can not measure. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E81daXW4n4Y |
Figured the room treatment suggestion would come up, as i watched my vid ad figured should have placed one of my many persian rugs down as ~~room dampener/acoustically tr5eatment** no problem,, will do so tonight. anyway, will continue a long sries of YT uploads for 1)m show off each piece of system 2) show off each mod 3) expose the crappy stereo systems vids on YT all with 30 seconds of the very worst recordings in terms of musical content/recording quality. From marimbas, to chinese lute sytle, to a long boring drum solo,,, highly equalized/computerized mod recordings, I can not find even 1 stereo vid with muisc that shines and sparkles with vocals, high dynamics. Most sound like muisc passing througha guitar fuzz pedal. Note my speakers are what they are,,nota super large sound stage,,,these are a mere 6 inch cone mid woofer,,, Beginning in the 1970's Big speakers never impressed me That postulate holds true today,,Except i owe a apology to a YTer who posted his Defy7 set up with Jadis's HUGE massive super heavy speakers,,which i might actually give approval , after several listenings. But not for me.. These Thors are perfect for my preference. anyway,, all comments will have to be taken over here, as YT has me permanently block to allow comments on any upload,,i am a enemy to the state, as a ~~promoter of anarchy with disruptive un-orthodox views, which instigate disharmony and confusion....* concerning CV19. No big deal. I plan to make at least another 20 or so YT uploads. Some of my ideas may not go over well among some members of the audiophile community,, So be that too. We are here for searching after high fidelity,, yet at the same time , exposing ~~The Snakeoil~~ so prevalent among this hobby past 50 years. Not once was i tempted to sip, guzzle snort, nor inject , those gimmicks. And now in this post CV19 world, our stereo bugdet must be managed with care and caution. P the Snakeoil Buster New Orleans |
OK so here's possibilities, need help deciding. After hearinga all Jadis set up on YT with B&W speakers(nota fan), the system bristles with colors and dynamics,,as much as i can pick up via my computer speakers,, so here's the thing.. I have modded the Lite pre amp with new M caps, and now the sound is more relaxed and ~~inviting~~~, But I think the Defy has more to offer. than what the Lite ~~jadis clone~~ can provide. I was thinking gettinga cayin SC6 preamp @ $1500.. or should i wait and see ifa used jadis preamp pops up? I need jadis preamp owners imput here,, as I have no experience with J's preamps. Iwo will the cayin be a step above the Lite, yet still below the J pre? Meaning down the road most likely upgrade to a J pre? Also , which model from J should i be considering as a match for the Defy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izqMVG3kuLE |
Hexck, just decided to takea closer look at J's page preamp listings,, Scrooled down through all, then 2nd to last listing PRE1. says newest design perfect fit for the new J 100 (Defy7's replacement amp), so that settles it,,,may have to fork out the cash fora new one, as i've not seen any used..let me go email the Blue Bird dealer in San Antonio Tx,, The other day i requested info on the J cd player,,,~~only $18K~~ i wrote back,,~~offensive and insulting,,,all i would do is say ~~that damn 18K cd player~~~. I mean there is no cd player worth even close to 18K, lets see how the pricing goes for the PRE1. http://www.jadis-electronics.com/en/pre1-48.php https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izqMVG3kuLE |
just got it Are you ready ~~~EIGHTEEN THOUSAND~~~, man J really loves that 18 number,,must be their lucky number or else J realizes the USA $ is really worthless, so 18K worthless US $'s, is reallya good steal,,and you know they are right. 18K is a bargain. I think i'll get one. But i am going to talk them down to $10K. hey this is post Cv19 era,,,= half loaf bread better than none at all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izqMVG3kuLE |
OK new mod in the Defy added 12 Mundorf Supreme EVO SG caps, .47 uf vaoue,,Very nice gains in mids, vocals, I would have to say thev Supremes (If you can fit them in place of old cap,,they are quite large), are superior to their lil brothers the SGO caps . 2x’s the price, but worth it. Now all things being equal, I am guessing the 150’s would still retain some of their characteristic murky/mushy midrange sonics. Guessing. But my hunch is the 88 is superior in mids and highs vs the KT150. Even with the new M caps, the 150’s would not match the 88’s in mids/highs.. what the 150’s offer is a slightly more robust sound stage,,but again, lacks the clarity in mids/highs of the 88’s. KT88’s are the best all around power tube ever made. The vid is 45 minutes long,,,at least jump to minute 22 and listen to Faith Hill’s vocals,,there you will hear ecah word clearly voiced. Am selling the new kt150’s. Very cool looking tube, gorgeous construction. The KT88 shot them down pretty fast. again, things were not equal,,so we will never know for sure how the 150’s responded to the new M caps,,Yes the M caps made that much of a sonic gain. will add a new Cayin SC6 preamp, next month/maybe July,,1st have to sell off 150’s , as demand for 150’s is low, that might take a few months. anyway,, The Jadis now sings with zero fatigue, bass is super, as expected from those huge trans, built like german tanks, but sings like angels. The defy potential is only limited by the supporting equipment/quality of parts. I will recommend all Jdais owners to swap out Jadis caps for M Supreme SG. Result is not a ~~miniscule~ sonic gain, have to say a significant gain in all fq resolution. anyway here is my latest vid, and now i offer Miles davis King of Blue, so everyone can reference how these M caps sound. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-viI0SYQHko&t=1844s |
Am I reading this right...you rolled in KT150's into your Defy amp?? Now you tell us you think the KT88's are a better match! KT150's were NOT designed to be rolled into the Defy amp! You Sir are very lucky you did Not damage your Defy...and DO NOT tell Jadis you did this, otherwise I would doubt that they would still warrant their transformer for you. |
Just blew a fuse in one tube,,thats all, we up the fuse amperage on the 88's... well actually i just sent Jadis a email showing off my Defy with new M caps,,I did let them know i tried out the 150’s in the Defy,,and the mids were too murky/muddled, not defined,,but that was with their caps,and my tech guy had one hell of a time biasing the 150’s,,3 rows were OK, 1 row of 3’ 150’s were not balanced right,,anyway,, I gave thema shot as I read somewhere here or another site *WOW the 150’s are awesome!!*,,I mean i guess in the right curcuit they MIGHT sound great, but surely not in any amp i want to consider.,.. IMHO the 120,150’s are a flop design. KT88 IMHO are King of all power tubes ever designed. Next would be the KT90, but thats a distant 2nd place. = Not relevant. and furthermore a 88 is a 88 is a 88, all have near exact characteristics. = No such Holy Grail snakeoil. anyway,, so the M caps have proven their weight in ~~Silver and Gold~~. I recommend to all tube amp owners to begin making mods to M caps Supreme when they fit,,if not go with the little brother to the Supreme EVO Oil SilverGold. You lose a good bit of definition, but if space is a constraint,,you have no choice. The white EVO are about 1/2 size the Supreme EVO. The Defy really came to life with the M caps. btw Jadis makesa I50, employs 150’s.. I have my doubts about the sound of that amp. These 88’s beat out pounding bass rifts.,. I just see the 150’s even the 120’s as an anomoly. Cool looking, but mid range?? Mush mealy?? Midrange is everything, next are sparkly highs. 88’s deliver both. Bass ounch is a huge bonus. None of these 3 fq ranges would have materalized with success, in the Defy w/o modding with M SESG (SILVERGOLD EVO SUPREME) Now, with the new M caps the Sparkoslab opamps in the cayin 17 Mark 1, now can finally voice their magic. Descrete opamps murdered IC ops, like Burr Browns. , LM’s and all others. New preamp near order. Lets see how that shootout goes off. Its a Cayin so i am expecting good things. and a new design Mark2,,been out some years, but no reviews, no YT vids, nada. Lets see if the cayin can feed the Defy with good vibes. ,,as another major brand, did not muster up,,/returned next day,,another set back..... I mean i could easily live with this Lite LS0 jadis clone pre,,its quiet, does not color the Defy’s purity at all. Yet I think the Defy has more to give up on Dynamics,,and this is where the Lite falls shourt,,Hi Fidelity,, not mid not low fidelity,,HIGH Fidelity. But as a true audiophile, we must keep on climbing til we reach the Summit,,,which i can glimpse from my base station ,,,,,Most of my mods were a success, others a flop...we expect to slip on some of the slopes,,,its part of the risks on this journey,,set backs should aspire to new heights. The kt150 $800 setback was just such one. Lucky I kept the kt88’s. |
will have to go with 6550's in the Defy,,, the tube Jadis originally installed in the amp,,stupid to sell the 12 off w/o listening to them 1st.. Now i have to rebuy the 12. I really love the clear voice and crystal highs of the 6550 vs the more murky kt88. man I really need to do more reserach before making costly decisions.. But i am more than sure this YT vid show the 6550 is my tube sound. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oC1AVIsqoB8&t=158s I went from 6550(not heard the tube) to kt90 to kt88, then kt150,, now running kt88,,,and now back to original Jadis recommended tube, 6550. Full circle, with a price to pay. |
1 channel is out on the Defy,,, all mod YT vid uploda s are on HOLD at the moment,,should be 2 weeks and she'll be and running with ~~New Electrolytic caps~~~ + many other new mods,, Look for New and fantastic mods comming in 2 weeks. New DIY power cords, new DIY interconnects,,plenty other 21st century mods. I told you guys i was going to be on the cutting edge of non snakeoil oil mods. |
I have to really laugh at this thread. Here we have the OP stating that in his Jadis amp, he feels that the new KT150 tubes are a 'flop design' and that they are murky and mushy! Hello, can you say amp/tube mismatch!!! Since the OP's amps were not designed to work with KT150's, I think his opinion of how these tubes sound is irrelevant. Only thing the OP should consider is how lucky he is that his amp didn't go up in smoke when he rolled in the wrong tubes, LOL. Oh, now I see he tells us that the amp has one channel out...seriously what a joke! |
Facts are 1) had not consulted with tech guy 2) Jadis no where says , can not use 150 in Defy 3) had no idea Jadis did not employ a separate bias screw for each tube Had I consulted with randy Cohen,,,I am sure his research would have advised against using the 150,,,Randy kept calling, this is not the tube for this amp,, I had bought the tubes, unaqware of these isssues, = too late to return. My loss of $400. anyway.. have perfectly matcherd 6550's comming in 2 weeks from vivatubes. Jadis for some odd reason , did not employ a separate bias for each tube. **Aesthetically it does not look beautifull tom placea separate bias screw on top of chassis.** End quote of Jadis engineers. Well Cayin figured, screw aesthetics,,, its practical and intelligent to placea bias screw on top of chassis, so owners can decide on which tubes they want,,and all do not absoluetly have to be perfectly matched..,. Which is why i recommend Cayin over Jdais. Cayin is the superior amp. Jadis is 2nd place, by a mile. So I am having most electrolytics changed out,,, not sure if Randy talked me into changing the 4 big electros,, have to call him today...Its about 20 electros, not counting the 4 big ones...anyway,,,mods are in proress and hoping for better things to come.. Have to get over the big loss of the 150's, I would never bea fan of 150's,, neither 120's. Its a shootout of kt88 and 6550 for me. They both look exactly same construction, The 88's i have are chinese, the 6550's, are russian. so basically its a shootout between china and russia. My guess is yhe russian will offer a sweeter mid range, but missing a bit of bass puch the chinese 88 can boast.. Superior highs will be awarded to the russian 6550. As I say, I bought the used amp, in 2008, had Svetlanan NOS 6550's, sold those off for $400,,,not some 12 yrs later rebuying at $450,,Sellers page mentions these 6550's are identical to the older 6550's, which i believe is the truth. Cayin is a superior amp to Jadis. |
@mozartfan So, in your not so humble opinion..Cayin is superior to Jadis and KT88’s are superior to KT`150’s. Even though you rolled into your Jadis amp the wrong tubes( the KT150's)...and were lucky ( probably due to the extreme build quality) that your amp didn’t go up in smoke! IMHO, you sir- are one clueless hobbyist! |
I haven't read the whole thread, but my recollection is that, unlike the old generation Jadis mono amps (JA30, 80 and 200), the original Defy 7 was not an autobiasing amp and could only use the 6550 tubes. To use other tube types in it, you (or, if like me you're not technically inclined, a good tech) would have to go inside the unit to set the proper bias, not an easy job. So any shootout of tubes will, in my view, not be particularly reliable, and could in fact damage the amplifier. I would caution against it. Also, from a quick read it looks like you're changing or looking at changing the internal capacitors, etc. in the amplifier. You should keep in mind that by doing this you are changing the sound from the Jadis house sound. You may find you like the new sound better, it may be a more "accurate" amplifier, but please don't call it a Jadis anymore. I've had friends who got modded Jadis amps and had those mods undone because the Jadis house sound they wanted was lost. Jadis may not have used the most expensive or transparent components in their amplifiers, but the components were chosen in part because they gave the designers the sound they wanted (and I'm sure cost had something to do with it). If you change that sound and don't like it, please don't blame Jadis. |
@ davey well your are correct,, the roll to a 150, although Jadis does list a few amps which can accept the 150,, this Defy is ,, maybe cerca 2000, so not built fora 150,,my bad,, now i consult with my tech guy on any mods. btw each tube has a fuse,,so a fuse will blow pre any damage to the huge beefy trans. @ reprince,, I'm sure Jadis placed the finest parts made at that time in their amps, These M caps are designed , 2012, they add to the separation of fq's, boost clarity, I think there is more to be gained from the new cas, which is why i am going back to the Svetlana 6550's,,which vivatubes says are identical to the Svetlana 6550's which came with the amp. I sold those off last year for 250/NOS and bought the new release for close to 500, not a good move,,, I did not even hear the NOS,, just assumed that I loved the kt90 EI in the JOR so much, that I figured the kt90 was my tube sound. .. sold off the 90's at half price also, new tubes. ,,so yeah, davey is right,, i need to slow down rethink all mods,, randy has been a big help now on whicch mods to go with Right now as i wait on 6550's to come in,, he is chaging all----maybe not the 4 big electrolytics,, can't recall if we are holding on those, as each is $125-- need to write him today,, see what we are going with. So all other smaller electrolytics are be chamed to either Nichicon or F&T's, can't recall which lab we decided on. Randy changed the electrolytics in his Golden Tube to Nichicon's and noted a nice sonic gain . The power electrolytics are going on 20 yrs now, best to change out. Thats all i am doing,, not making any mods on the design of the amp, = post mods will be a Jadis amp. , same characteristics. I plan to buy a meter and Randy will show me how to bias. Will post a vid once everything is up N running. |
@mozartfan, A fuse will blow before your transformer gets damaged? (not necessarily!)- the fact that you rolled in a KT150 which a) you couldn't get to bias and b) needs about 600+ volts on the rail..which your transformers were absolutely NOT designed to accommodate. You got lucky my friend, pure and simple...and the fact that the Jadis transformers are built like a tank...I strongly recommend that you get a professional tech's advice before doing something stupid like that again! |
Hey Davey Yeah my tech guy jumped on me about making rash, , unreflective/not well resrached deciosions about rolling tubes,, Like swapping the 12au7's for the awesome looking E80's, = The Defy nor the Lite pre (12at7) liked the E80 in the socket.. man that e80 such a beauty. well those following my journey,,,its comming down to this. The cayin SC6 Mark2, is not long off, 2 weeks order placed. If that pre does not trump the Lite (Jadis clone) then I have to options A) sell the Defy when a jadis Intergrated comes avaliable B) purchase a new Jadis JPL pre at a bank busting $10 Grand. I am going to miss the neutrality of the Defy, and its power to deliver solid bass. + all the new M caps, + new electrolytics. + pure copper terminals, speaker/connect posts, etc,, Randy just called, he will keep the 88's in post new mods,, than later on we can roll to the Svetlana 6550's. ..So hang in there for Part 3 < does the defy have the power to sing likea Italian tenor?> stay tuned. p new orleans |
Here is my latest YT upload,, sorry for the carrpy mic system, which does no justice to the wonderous neutrality and dynamics of the SEAS Thor speakers. Voice is nearly life like (will be superior once added a new preamp + new xovers) The thing i have been after these 40+ yrs in all things audio is ,,Neutrality~dynamics~~ and most of all ~~~Non Fatiguing~~ I'd say the Thor's , ona scale of 1- 100, receive a 100 score. Bass 100, mids 100, high fq's 100. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Y9WRTjl9c |
Ok here is m latest vid showing the mods completed in the Defy. Its hard to say how much sonic gaisn have been made, not until i get a superior preamp. But I can say we installed caron Film resistors as last mod,,and i had a gut feeling some of the fidelity that was present with the original metal resistors ,,was ~~deleted~~~ so I called andy, and suggested the TAKMAN metal resistors which we ordered and had sitting in his shop, to replace the carbon film. and sure enough the amp 's sound was improved,,, Caron film tends to smooth out, but whats that? = loss of dynamics. IMHO Metal resistors are superior to carbon..so when I get the cayin SC6 which Cayin boasts has Takman carbon res,,its very liekly i will swap those out for Takman Metal. I realize what cayin went with Takman carbon,, as audiophiles perfera smooth, **warm** voicing,, whereas I much perfer a dynamic sound,,which may strike some as analytical =*cold*,,but thats my preference. No doubt thats why cayin chose carbon over the metal. No big deal, the cayin SC6 has point to point wiring, so the mod should be a breeze to make. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpVCbHX6jWU&feature=youtu.be |