Is there a problem with Decca's new packaging for vinyl records?

@mahler123 

Your post prompted me to check out Deutsche Grammophon’s website.  They now seem to concentrate on vinyl, often from their back catalogue.  And they list new recordings from their Decca colleagues.  So their owner, UMG, obviously sees more profit from vinyl, which at 250% the price of the equivalent CD, makes some sort of sense.

Having said that, they also offer digital downloads including Dolby Atmos, so all is not lost!

That’s why I spend most of my hard-earned on silver disks from 2l, BIS, Chandos, LSO Live and the Berliner Philharmonika!

@mahler123 

One of the great things about this forum for me is that I frequently learn new things!

For example, I have just discovered that what I thought was a British independent label, Hyperion, was actually bought by the Universal Music Group in March 2023 - see UNIVERSAL MUSIC GROUP ANNOUNCES ACQUISITION OF LEGENDARY CLASSICAL LABEL HYPERION RECORDS - UMG.

In the classical music space UMG also owns Decca and Deutsche Grammophon (DG), which explains why I see Decca recordings on Hyperion's website!  It may also explain why I cannot buy SACDs from Decca or Hyperion (35 listed, most deleted).  Now that the Berliner Philharmonika runs its own label featuring the multi-channel Digital Concert Hall I hardly see anything new I want to buy from DG.

So many other great labels are powering ahead with SACD including 2L, BIS, Chandos, Dacapo, LSO Live. Pentatone, Reference Recordings, etc.

Yes, I am totally convinced that well recorded classical SACDs should always be better than well recorded classical CDs.  For a start, most actually contain the CD version, as well as 2-channel and multi-channel Direct Stream Digital (DSD).  What have you got to lose? 

I am also totally convinced that DSD is better than PCM on theoretical, commercial and listening grounds.  Getting monotonic linearity from PCM is impossible unless it is converted to DSD using sigma-delta techniques.  If DSD isn't better, why would Sony and Philips, who designed the Redbook CD specification, have produced a revolutionary new format they intended to replace CDs?  It is a pity North Americans did not warm to the 'new' format 17 years ago.

I have told this story before, but on a whim, I bought a Reavon universal player.  My test SACD is Hyperion's Shostakovich Piano Concertos, in particular the very quiet second movement of the second concerto.  When I played this through the Reavon's DACs it had none of the air and sparkle I was used to.  On delving deeper, it turned out that the Burr Brown DACs were being fed DSD down-converted to 16-bit PCM and the lack of quality was almost immediately obvious to me, though no reviewer has picked it up!  (Fortunately the DACs in my pre-processor handle native DSD delivered via HDMI just fine),

 don’t mean to be snarky here but somehow you have imbibed the propaganda that vinyl is a higher resolution medium than bog standard CD

Far from it.  I stopped buying vinyl as soon as CDs came out.  My interest in vinyl has been re-kindled when I found out how much my old Garrad 301 table is fetching second hand (and the ridiculous prices for new old stock!).  I suspect one reason they are valued is that they can be adjusted to start and stop in a fraction of a second.  I have spent several thousand upgrading the Garrard and it now sounds to me to be about the same quality as a good CD player.  No doubt I could spend tens of thousands and do significantly better.  I have even recently bought my Hyperion test track on vinyl but sadly it will never match the SACD.

I am old enough to have watched manufacturers who did not have a digital offering dump on digital, and HiFi retailers sniff when I wanted them to play a CD.  Those same retailers today, when asked to demonstrate components worth as much as Porsches, reach for their iPhones to stream digital!

I am agnostic when it comes to vinyl but was pleasantly surprised when my dealer had a B&W speaker evening and in one room, was playing vinyl through a Holbo air bearing, linear tracking deck.  It even managed to make B&W speakers sound OK!

@richardbrand 

I don’t mean to be snarky here but somehow you have imbibed the propaganda that vinyl is a higher resolution medium than bog standard CD.  You also seem to a priori believe that multichannel SACD is superior to CD.

   I am more sympathetic to the second assumption as I have 2 multichannel systems in my home and a substantial number of SACDs, Blu Rays, and DVD-Audios.  There have been a few SACDs-not many- where the multichannel version was inferior to the two channel incarnation.  The Hyperion label, for example, made poor sounding SACDs and stopped issuing them.

  However the assumption that analog is a priori superior to digital has always just been nonsense.  For me there is no competition for the black backgrounds and extended dynamic range of digital, particularly in Classical Music.  
  LP has been remarkably successful in its Resurrection and promotion of myth.  People are just in love with artifact and willing to shell out buck bucks to enjoy sonic sludge and then crow about it.

  My LP is listening is reserved for those few favorite albums of yesteryear that were never reissued digitally (or only as mp3 or part of a huge box).  Since pretty much every thing is now available as a FLAC download, it’s been a few months since I felt the urge to lift the dust over , clean the record, and settle in for a pop and click filled 18 minutes of music 

@faustuss 

Thanks for your input.  I am not sure what mass market records are?

I decided to go down the aqueous cleaning route, particularly using a contact-free ultrasonic cleaner.  See @antinn's book Precision Aqueous Cleaning of Vinyl Records-3rd Edition - The Vinyl Press.

In my opinion much of the debris collected by records is sub microscopic - in other words, it cannot be resolved using a conventional visible light-microscope.

However, the damage done to the Decca records in transit is not just the creation of detritus through abrasion of the liner.  In my opinion, the debris has been ground into the grooves causing physical damage akin to scratches.  No amount of cleaning can fix a scratch!

@mahler123 

No, they are not sold together.

I ordered the vinyl and the CD versions as separate line items in the same order.  They were shipped in one package, along with other vinyl records from Hyperion.

The vinyl was about 250% more expensive than the CD,

By way of background, I am trying to find out for myself if analogue (vinyl) really is better than digital, for well-recorded classical music (where I have a very good idea of what it should sound like!).

I don't expect vinyl to come anywhere close to multi-channel SACD, so when I discover a recording that I want to buy, my rules are to go for the SACD if the recording is available on SACD.  Otherwise, if it is on vinyl and unlikely to be a frequent play, I buy the vinyl.

In this case, the performance is stunningly good and Decca does not issue it on SACD.  So for the first time in my life, I bought the CD and vinyl versions simultaneously.  Unfortunately, because of packaging damage or transit damage, the vinyl is almost unlistenable.  The vinyl was first released on March 24, 2023, before my previous Decca records (Beethoven Triple Concerto) which was released on October 4, 2024.  It came in a normal paper liner and is fine. 

I now have a dilemma because I want to buy Decca's Flying Dutchman (release date April 18, 2025) and Britten cello works (release date May 9, 2025).

As for my quest to answer the analogue / digital dilemma, I have discovered that

1. a lot of vinyl has gone through a digital stage so a lot of the hype is based on bulldust
2. I could almost instantly pick when my player was outputting multi-channel at CD quality rather than at SACD quality
3. I am now pretty agnostic to whether CD or vinyl is playing

No doubt a chorus will strike up to say that I should be streaming. I do download from Presto Classical (monthly subscription) if I am uncertain that I will like a performance. But as far as I am aware, no streaming service gets anywhere near SACD quality for classical music.

The OP stated he purchased the CD simultaneously.  Were they sold together?

Most of the mass market records come in printed inner sleeves like that which I don’t believe are intended for long term storage but for the edification of the listener with liner notes and or lyrics.

Instead of any kind of wet cleaning I would use a good quality CF brush while spinning the turntable platter unpowered not more than one revolution and then sweeping the line of debris collected to the edge of the record. Acquire a silicon roller, I personally use an "In the Groove" starting with the top of the record label at 12 o’clock, roll first down the left of the spindle from the top toward you and then to the right of the spindle. It will take multiple passes lifting the roller to ensure complete coverage. Then rotate the platter a quarter turn and repeat the process.

If you have the surface of the record properly illuminated, you will see the effectiveness of the roller’s ability to remove the marks left by these sleeves.  In addition, if you concentrate with light pressure the rollers edge in what look like particularly troublesome areas it will literally lift imbedded matter out of the grooves. Though it’s not fool proof, I use this method with every new record and somewhat less intensively with every record I play.

I will add that after the first play you should repeat this process before turning the record over because your stylus which is really the only way of contacting the most intricate surfaces of the groove will push any remaining matter in the groove to the surface of the record which you can immediately remove with the roller. Your next play will be even quieter!

Reserve wet cleaning for used record purchases and keep it simple and only do it once. If it doesn’t result in a comfortably quiet surface, return the record. Spin Clean following the manufacturer’s instructions implicitly works almost every single time.