What is the input impedance on the EMIA unit you are using Lew?
Is a Lyra Kleos good with a current-mode phono preamp?
Does anyone know whether the Kleos, or Lyra's in general, work well with current-mode phono preamps?
MF "highly recommends the $2500 Channel D Lino C2.0 phono preamplifier", but only if, "your cartridge has a super-low internal impedance." I have a Lyra Kleos, which has an "internal Impedance: 5.4 ohms." Is that in the ballpark of, "super-low internal impedance?" What is?
I might be tempted to try one, given the glowing reviews, which you rarely see at this price point. On the other hand, I have not had good luck paying attention to MF's reviews, educational though they sometimes are. His taste and mine do not often seem to coincide, but then, I like tubes, and don't have $100K amps or turntables or $50K preamps. Never will!
Are there less expensive cartridges with low output impedance? The Kleos is terrific, and dealing with Lyra was a delight, but it isn't likely I'll ever be spending over $3.7K on a cartridge again. In a review of the Little Loco by Sutherland, also touted as a great bargain (although $4K is far from trivial, to me) I recall that one of those guys was surprised that it didn't work very well with a Lyra Delos, which has an input impedance of 8.2 ohms. Is that not considered, "low output impedance", or was something else going on?
What is the downside (unavoidable, given the art of trade-offs, a/k/a/ engineering) of current-mode preamps, compared to "normal" voltage amp phono preamps?
for reference, I'm currently (hah!) using an AR PH3 SE ungraded by Great Northern with teflon caps. Hard to improve on at a reasonable cost.
MF "highly recommends the $2500 Channel D Lino C2.0 phono preamplifier", but only if, "your cartridge has a super-low internal impedance." I have a Lyra Kleos, which has an "internal Impedance: 5.4 ohms." Is that in the ballpark of, "super-low internal impedance?" What is?
I might be tempted to try one, given the glowing reviews, which you rarely see at this price point. On the other hand, I have not had good luck paying attention to MF's reviews, educational though they sometimes are. His taste and mine do not often seem to coincide, but then, I like tubes, and don't have $100K amps or turntables or $50K preamps. Never will!
Are there less expensive cartridges with low output impedance? The Kleos is terrific, and dealing with Lyra was a delight, but it isn't likely I'll ever be spending over $3.7K on a cartridge again. In a review of the Little Loco by Sutherland, also touted as a great bargain (although $4K is far from trivial, to me) I recall that one of those guys was surprised that it didn't work very well with a Lyra Delos, which has an input impedance of 8.2 ohms. Is that not considered, "low output impedance", or was something else going on?
What is the downside (unavoidable, given the art of trade-offs, a/k/a/ engineering) of current-mode preamps, compared to "normal" voltage amp phono preamps?
for reference, I'm currently (hah!) using an AR PH3 SE ungraded by Great Northern with teflon caps. Hard to improve on at a reasonable cost.
10 responses Add your response
Less than 10 ohms is a good rule of thumb. But not all "current-driven" phono stages are created equal, as they all have an input impedance that is in reality greater than zero. The one Chakster uses comes the closest to zero input impedance of any I know about. But most present an impedance of from 2 to as high as 12 ohms. Therefore, it’s a case by case question of whether you will get a great result or just a very good result, depending upon both the cartridge and the phono stage. The Kleos is well suited to trying. I’m using an Ortofon MC2000 (internal impedance 2 ohms) with a one-off product made by EMIA for me. Its input impedance is higher than average, yet the combo sounds excellent. It’s the first set-up that allows me to hear what the MC2000 can really do. (MC2000 has super low voltage output = .05mV, and I did not want to try an SUT.) |
The Lino is a great preamp. Team it up with Pure Vinyl and something like an Apple Mini and you have an unbelievable record playing system. You can record records to your hard drive. You type in the record's PL # and all the data will pull down automatically. If you want to compare cartridges and you can record a sample of each then AB them. The RIAA correction is done in the digital domain with accuracy and a lack of various distortions not possible in the analog domain. Everything is done in very high resolution. You can also use the Pure Music part of the program to download digital files to your hard drive and the program includes a stream through option. Your Apple becomes a music server, actually a media server as you can also stream movies. The program automatically up samples everything to 24/192 pushing the anti aliasing filter up away from the audio spectrum. Check out Channel d's web site http://www.channld.com/ |
I've used cartridges with internal impedances ranging from 4-14 ohms with no problems with my Aqvox, and think that all worked well. I've also used an AT MONO3/LP with an internal impedance of 40 ohms and thought it worked reasonably well with my stage, although it was not a great match in terms of output/gain, having a bit too much output for the Aqvox to really dial it in; the review of the Loco I saw on line stated it would not work at all with that phono stage delivering only a loud hum, so there may be some other slightly odd compatibility issues with certain cartridges and the Loco because of other elements of its design. The Aqvox is fully balanced in and out so perhaps that is why I was still able to get that AT to work with it. The Lyras are in the middle to upper range of output (as far as low output MC's are concerned) with .5 mV and .6 mV respectively with Kleos and Delos and the issue with the Delos may have had more to do with proper gain matching/setup than the internal impedance of the Lyra at 8.2 ohms which is still relatively low. Most current mode stages should perform reasonably well with cartridges with internal impedances of 1-10 ohms I would think. |
Google is your friend. Compatible Phono CartridgesTransimpedance preamplifiers require a low impedance MC cartridge. A certain few MC cartridges may have trouble driving a transimpedance phono stage, and a closed-down upper octave response will result. The general rule of thumb in choosing a compatible cartridge is: the manufacturer's suggested load resistance is 100 ohms or less (e.g., 100, 50, 25, 10 ohms, etc.). Another specification is the cartridge internal impedance (which is related to, but different than the load resistance): 10 ohms or less, and the lower (e.g., 5 ohms, 2 ohms) the better. If either or both of these are true, it's likely that the cartridge will be an optimal match. If you have any questions feel free to contact us via email or phone and we'll be able to tell you if your cartridge is suitable. |
