@corelli As the house audio guy at a major Las Vegas venue for near 10 years, I saw lots and lots of A-list acts and how their FOH engineer used our system, (JBL line array + D&B subs). Some used analog consoles, PM4000, XL4, Venice, EX56, etc., and of course lots of digital consoles from Midas, Yamaha, Avid, Digico, etc., and I experienced some awesome results, and some that were an absolute train wreck. This theater was properly designed for rock shows, but we had Norah Jones, and David Gray, and Mariachi, and across all genres, rock bands tended to have worst results, but Jackson Browne sounded great and Korn was a wash of sound.
OT, Rick Beato did a great interview with Dave Natale if any of you are interested in learning a bit more about live sound reproduction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIBYcExFZ2Y
Incredible Audiophile Imaging -- at a Concert!
I was just at a music festival in the mountains near the border of Portugal and Spain. One of the shows was the duo of Maria João (vocalist -- either an acquired tasted or too weird, depending on your preferences) and Mário Laginha (an excellent pianist). The concert was outdoors in the ruins of the ancient Roman city of Ammaia. The sound system consisted of two line arrays, nothing more. But it was incredibly well mic'ed. A pic with the techs setting up is attached. We were seated very close to the sound boards.
About two songs into the concert, I realized that Laginha's piano was mic'ed so that an image of the keyboard, in incredible detail, was mapped from the left line array to the right. Closing my eyes, I could "see" this entire 70 foot wide keyboard image, to a level of detail that any musician who knows keys and scales could easily reconstruct exactly what Laginha was playing. It was absolutely amazing! I had never heard sound with that level of clarity, detail, and imaging in a concert before. The purpose-built San Francisco Jazz Center probably comes close in my experience, but a somewhat distant second place to this simple line array system.
I'm sure this effect was helped by there being no walls or ceiling to create any reflections. And I'm sure being right next to the sound engineers contributed. Did the altitude or cold temperatures matter? Regardless, it made Laginha's playing that much more enjoyable. It was such a treat compared to concerts held at stadium venues, or even large clubs, where the sound often sucks.
I read up on line arrays at https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/line-arrays-explained to get a better appreciation.
Wondering if any other 'goners have experienced something like this at a concert. If so, what was the venue? What do you think contributed to the stellar imaging?
- ...
- 39 posts total
@tonyrox Not surprising. Jackson Browne is absolutely fastidious about his sound. Listen, for example, to how clean and meticulous the sound is on the live album "Love is Strange" with David Lindley... |
I am not so sure I would ever consider that "audiophile imaging" could be reproduced with amplifiers and sound reinforcement speakers, at a live concert. Here in LA, at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art, we used to have these free classical concerts in a great venue, The Bing Theater, on the museum grounds. They were called "Sunday’s Live" and they occurred every week. The venue was specifically designed for live classical music, with fantastic acoustics. And other than the mic used to introduce the the performances, no other amplification existed. If one sat in the first third to half of the theater, one experienced REAL imaging. As in, if a violinist sounded as if they were coming from the left part of the stage, a percussionist sounded like they were coming from behind the other musicians, a pianist sounded like they were in the middle of the stage, etc., that is because that is exactly where they were located while playing. And their instrument sounded exactly how big they actually are. They didn’t sound like they were to the right or left because that is where the FOH engineer decided to pan them on their mixing board. And as far as a piano sounding like it is 70’ wide, as the OP describes, for me that is the exact opposite of accurate, audiophile imaging. The idea behind good imaging, is to reproduce the instruments at their correct size in relation to the rest of the instruments, in correct space (left/right, front/back), and a reasonable facsimile of size in reality. Speaking in general, not specifically to the OP, I personally believe, that modern audiophiles are doing themselves a disservice by not listening to classical music. If for no other reason, than to hear what actual good imaging is. I have classical recordings, where the image and soundstage is so holographic (sorry for the use of an audiophile cliché), that I can easily imaging myself getting off my listening chair and walking among the musicians, to the point where I can even tell how far apart they are from each other, and how much space they occupy. I own plenty of studio recorded rock recordings, some are quite famous in the audiophile world, and despite being recorded extremely well, none of them create an image and soundstage like the type I mentioned above with regards to classical recordings. The now defunct Bing.
|
Amazing venue, must have been special... I saw Phish at the Sphere in Vegas last year and it was definitely the best sound I've ever heard in a large venue by far... Behind the world's largest display they have 167k individually amplified drivers and its the clearest cleanest jaw dropping concert at a large venue I've ever heard.. That being said I live near the Disney Hall in LA and I've seen so many shows in that venue which is one of the best sounding rooms on Earth, and it doesn't matter where you sit |
- 39 posts total