If you still spin CD's their is a reference level Transport for reasonable money

Thanx for your feedback guys.

@teajay 
When will your full review of the CDT2 be posted to Home Theater Review?

I just set up my new Jay’s Audio CDT2 MK2 transport. Incredible SQ. Surprised to find no manual for a $2,000 transport, but no issues with set up. Remote functions didn’t work; maybe batteries are required. 😂😂

The RCA digital coaxial output of the Jay’s Audio reverses channels relative to my other transports (CAL Delta transport via all tested digital outputs, including both RCA and AES/EBU outputs and a borrowed NuPrime CDT-8 Pro transport via RCA digital output). I’ll need to test its BNC output.

Hey Celander,

Yes, you will have to put batteries in your remote, they don't ship with them.  I only use the BNC out which does not reverse channels, so I can't address the issue with the RCA out.  

Have fun and share what you think of its performance.  

My error on the transport channel reversal. I now recall having done a channel reversal test on my Teo Audio Liquid Pre outs and the L/R channels my ATC active monitors to isolate some weird noise on one channel. 

@teajay
I am testing a Oyaide digital IC at the moment. I got the Sablon digital IC on Saturday. Should be a fun comparison. 

My Jay's Audio CDT2 Mk.2 arrived today (in South Africa) and went straight into my system all the way from Hong Kong and .... WOW!

I'm using the AES/EBU output into my iFi Pro iDSD set to Bit Perfect and Valve+ mode (Thorsten Loesch design) running balanced outputs to Accuphase pre-power and my massive PLLXO DIY open-baffle speakers.

Fluid, musical, but still has bite and the best bass depth and quality I've achieved so far. Sh#t, now I will have to upgrade my vinyl set-up again.

Even beer tastes better listening to the CDT2  ;)

Even beer tastes better listening to the CDT2

+1 : )

@garrard

Congratulation on getting nice transport.

The beer made in South Africa must be good.

I stayed in South Africa for only 5 hours on transfer to DR Congo on 2005.

It was business trip.

I wish to have a chance to visit "Cape of Good Hope" someday.

Congrats on your purchase, the Jay's CDT2 MK II is superb!

Wig

My initial impressions of the CDT2 MK2 are presented below.

System: CDT2 MK2 transport, Theta Digital DS ProBasic IIIa DAC, Teo Audio Liquid Pre passive preamp, ATC SCM20-2A active monitors, 1.3M Oyaide DB-510 digital IC (Canare BNC-RCA adaptors on the digital cable’s BNC connectors to accommodate the RCA digital input of the DAC), 2ft and 6ft runs of custom HAVE Dual StarQuad parallel integrated audio IC’s per Shroeder Method (2ft run between DAC and Liquid Pre and 6ft run between Liquid Pre and ATC active monitors).

My first listening of the CDT2 included a switched set of audio IC’s running from the Liquid Pre to the ATC active monitors (originally done to isolate a spurious noise at one channel output). That led to my errant conclusion the CDT2 has reversed the channels on the CDT2’s RCA digital output. That error was rectified by reversing the analog output cables at the Liquid Pre.

The CDT2 replaces a CAL Delta transport. And the CDT2 transformed CD playback in so many ways. Soundstage presentation was more expansive in all dimensions. But what amazed was how much the soundstage leaped well in front of the speakers, resulting in their near disappearance from the sound field. The layers of musical complexity was resolved far better, with a much greater degree of both micro and macro dynamics coming forth. The background and inter-passage silence were more evident, immediate and blacker. The degree of quietness was unnerving at times, as if a layer of ever-present glare were removed from the background, leaving utter silence.

The CDT2 drove digital playback of my Theta DAC to incredible heights. It was as if the CDT2 transport literally granted permission to the Theta DAC to reveal all of its glorious potential. I can only hazard how much more improvement can be brought by an updated DAC. I suspect the CDT2’s extremely low jitter levels contributed to how well the Theta DAC negotiated the digital stream. But no matter. I’m tapping to the music at a much more involved level.

I have another digital IC to test in the context of a product from Mark Coles of Sablon Audio of the UK. Will report back when that IC is in the system.

There's a new video over at OCD HiFi Guy on youtube and he tried out various I2s connections on the Jay's Audio CDT and at the end of the video, he tried and found that SPDIF with Chris Sommovigo's Starlight cable gave the best sound, even better than HDMI. It wasn't definitive, but he'll report back.

All the best,
Nonoise

Chris's Black Cat Silver Star MK II are the best SPDIF I have ever heard regardless of its $325 price tag. I'm just waiting on the Cable Company to restock their lending library with the digit 75 which is their most popular and mid way in their line-up.

It's an addictive sound and musical instruments are life-like, full bodied but will compare it to my Snake River Boomslang which is very good as well but the Silver Star MK II has me mesmerized...

Wig

@nonoise

I watch that OCD YouTube video (aka Mike Powell) the other day. I thought when he finished initially (and I clicked off the channel), I concluded he didn’t review the Black Cat digital cable. Returned to it again and found that I had prematurely turned off the video, omitting the extra time at the end devoted to that cable.

The Jay's Audio DAC has just been released!

If it is anywhere nearly as good as the CDT2 it will be fantastic. Same beautiful casing.

I’ve created a new thread for the Jay’s Audio DAC as it’s unrelated to teajay’s original thread. 

Just ordered a CDT2-MK2 from Mike Powell in GA. Had a good chat with him this morning. My current player is just a TASCAM 500b which, hooked to an Yggdrasil (new Analog 2 board) via AES, has surpassed every expectation I had for CD playback. So I'm curious what an anecdotally world-class transport will sound like by comparison.

I've been on a vinyl bender for 3 years and for my tastes and preferences it offers what I want in terms of smooth, powerful sound with excellent dynamics and tonal texture. For reference, my vinyl rig is: GEM PolyTable Super12, AT Art9 with Namiki boron MicroRidge, into a Parks Puffin phono stage (which frankly sounds better than it has any right to given how it works and its price tag). Previous phono stage was a Herron VTPH-2. 

Anyway, I digress. I was shocked to find that the TASCAM + Yggy has delivered a few discs that I have on comparable, excellent condition, original vinyl and I preferred the shiny plastic. There are others that overlap in my two collections where I prefer the vinyl, so at no point am I thinking I want to switch completely, I just want to have roughly equivalent sources for both media. And I have also determined that I am now firmly in the camp of physical media. I have Roon and I have tried a MicroRendu as well as a HifiBerry and neither have come close to what I'm getting with a CD of the same provenance.

Should have the Jay's in a couple weeks, can't wait to see how it sounds.

I purposefully did not compare the Jay's Audio CDT2 MK2 with my analog rigs (VPI Prime and two Linn LP12 set-ups having different arm/cartridge combinations).

The SQ commonalities between my CD and LP playback front ends include an incredibly silent background and a huge 3-dimensional sound space.

Since I don't think I really made the point I was driving at when I set out on that post, my goal is to find my favorite recordings in their best form on physical media. And in cases where they are roughly equal, frankly I’d prefer to play the CD to keep wear off the stylus. To me it’s just gratifying to hear digital playback that has reminded me so much of what I love about vinyl. I had a very, very nice digital setup four years ago and it had its good points but it was more about "look what I can do" vs "how does this system make you feel?" If that makes sense. I actually feel some equivalence between the two formats now and that makes me happy because so much of what I’m after either doesn’t exist on vinyl, isn’t affordable on vinyl, or is honestly not so well-produced and translates poorly on vinyl.

Hope that makes sense :)

@in_shore 

What are you thoughts on the Rockna vs the Terminator?

I considered the Terminator as my next dac, but now I'm thinking that maybe the Rockna will be the one. Longer to save the money and justify the price, but it seems like a very long term dac. 

All I want for Xmas is my 2 front teeth...
No, actually the Home theater review of the CDT2 Mk2 would be better.

Hi celander,

I noticed that you are using a Theta Digital DS ProBasic IIIa DAC.

Can you comment on the sound and how it compares to other DACS you have used?

Thanks for listening, 

Dsper

I’ve only used the Theta Digital DSPro Basic IIIA as a DAC. It’s potential is greatly affected by whatever transport feeds it. My original CAL Delta Transport (having a <50 psec jitter output) sounded great with it. My Sonic Frontiers Ultra Jitterbug reclocker (having a reclocked digital stream with <40 psec jitter) or an AE Synchro Mesh OTL reclocker (having presumably 8psec jitter) didn’t really improve the SQ from the Theta DAC using the Delta transport.

I tried a NuPrime CDT-8 Pro transport (having 120 psec jitter output) with the Theta DAC. The resultant SQ from the DAC wasn’t better (might have been worse in imaging) than with the Delta transport.

I then obtained a Jay’s Audio CDT2 MK2 transport to mate with the Theta DAC.
💥BOOM!💥
The Jay’s Audio transport brought out the best SQ from the Theta DAC I’ve ever heard. As most here know, the Theta DAC is an R2R ladder design. I could easily live with the Theta forever.

I’m going to try out the Benchmark DAC3 DAC-Pre for reasons partly unrelated to the DAC section. I’ll sort out the SQ of their DAC section when I audition it. But based on the Theta DAC design and its resultant SQ when mated with a high resolution transport, I might be biased towards R2R ladder DACs.

I had a Counterpoint DAC that I traded in for my then-new Theta DSPro Basic IIIa DAC. I believe it was also a R2R design. One nice feature about that Counterpoint design was that one could swap out DSP chips to change the flavor of the analog section. The Theta was a better unit, in terms of SQ. 

My Jays Audio CDT-2 mk2 arrived today and my initial impressions pretty much mirrors most everyone else here. As most have stated its a gorgeous unit that's built like a tank. Right out of the box it sounds much better than my CEC TLN-5. Bass is tighter, soundstage has opened up more, the air and high end detail is greatly improved with a very relaxed and real sound. It's at least as "analog" sounding as the CEC, probably even more so. It certainly is one heck of a bargain at $2,250. It looks and sounds like a unit costing much more. Thanks for the heads up on it teajay.

I am seriously listening to mine for the first time right now. The first disc I put in was Jeff Beck - Truth, which I listened to from my old player (TASCAM 500b) just a couple of nights ago. 

The Jay's is a gamechanger. I paid $2000 shipped and I'm planning my next trip to wherever I can get to to pick up more CDs. Thrifts, music stores, don't care. I need to hear more. 

A quick follow-up. I've listened to another 4 or 5 CDs tonight with everything fully warmed up. This new transport is as shocking to me as my first foray into vinyl was. It is truly special and has caused me to question basically everything I've said over the past 3 years about analog vs digital. Now, don't mistake me - I'm not suggesting it is better than vinyl; I think the mastering decides that. But what I am saying is that on the right shiny plastic discs, this thing gives me absolutely no reason to want for more. Absolutely a good buy. 

@toddrhodes 

Now just add a Black Cat Siverstar 75 Mk.2 used BNC to BNC and you just might have to upgrade your vinyl rig again!

I went with the DH Labs Silver Sonic 1M BNC cable. Found one on the ’bay for $70 and I did a really quick comparison to a Blue Jeans 110-ohm XLR (which is the preferred input on the Yggy) and I prefer the BNC connection slightly. Trust me, I have my eye on the Silverstar but it’s going to be a minute on that. Bought some new tubes for my preamp tonight and I want to address a few power cabling/outlet situations first.

Question for @teajay or anyone who might now. Does the Jay's handle pre-emphasis? I'm thinking it does not, and I only have one disc that has it (black-faced DSOTM made in Japan) so it's not a major deal, but just curious.

There is something special about a BNC to BNC cable that is even better than AES/EBU IMHO.

I keep trying to find fault with this player but it's just magical. It's the kind of thing that, when combined with an equal-or-better caliber DAC it can cause you to question just about every audio preconception you've ever held. Like Redbook can't compete with vinyl or "hi-rez." I absolutely beg to differ and it has even further accelerated my CD purchases. What a problem to have :) 

@toddrhodes -Todd, remind me, what DAC are you using?
best,
bill

I am quite happy with my Jay's CD 2 MK II, a very organic and natural sounding player : )

Wig

@whart 

Hey Bill, long time no chat! I am using the latest iteration of the Schiit Yggdrasil. They updated the analog output stage I think about a year ago, all updated units have a "B" to begin their serial number. While I would say it favors tone, texture, and musicality over imaging and spatial cues, it's really not a slouch at the latter either. 

I also love mine and see no reason to switch it out for anything else. It just sounds right. 

I had an April Music CDT100 that sounded great, but was weighted downwards. I also have a Musical Fidelity that sounds very very good, and doesn't do anything wrong, but it lacks the overall life and resolution of the Jay's Audio.

I'm looking around at dacs to see what would be a great paring for it. 

I wish more dacs had the HDMI i2s output, as I have to be able to utilize the transport tot he fullest. I'm thinking about a Rockna Wavedream (expensive) and still haven't completely ruled out the Terminator (better price, but I don't love that it's voiced to be warm and lush, as opposed to simply being as transparent as possible).

@lordcloud   The Denafrips Terminator accomplishes the difficult and rare feat of being both transparent and musical.

@david_ten 

I imagine it is fairly transparent. However the designers have said they voiced it to be lush. Most reviews also say it is in the warm side. 

I'm sure it isn't syrupy warm or lush, but I'm trying to avoid as much voicing as possible, and listen to what in the disc as much as possible. Or at least as much as my limited funds can get me.

I'm still not opposed to the Terminator, but if I can get more transparency and information retrieval, while not sounding bright or slow, I'll be happier.

I really wish someone was in Austin and had a Terminator, so I could hear it for myself.

I think the Rockna can perform preamp duties as well, but it would probably come down to how many sources you have as to whether or not that helps justify or offset any of its cost. I’m following Mike Powell on YouTube and his comparisons between Vermeer, Rockna, and Terminator are a lot of fun to watch, even if the format limits its ultimate effectiveness.

I wish they would settle on an i2s via HDMI standard, because as it stands I think there are some proprietary pinouts for sources and DACs so a custom cable may be necessary if the pinout on the CDT-2 isn’t exactly matching the DAC you end up with.

That said, and realize a LOT of variables have changed since this time, but I ran i2s from an audio PC to an Aqua DAC several years ago and just IMO, the Jay’s --> DH Labs Silver Sonic BNC --> Yggdrasil, which at least costwise is very equivalent to my old setup, is not just on another plane, it’s in another dimension for resolution and musicality. I say that just to make the point that i2s while theoretically better, it has its own limitations. Cable length used to be absolutely critical for it to work well. I used a 6" Cat6 cable back then, with the DAC stacked on top of the audio PC. Maybe it’s different now but just some food for thought.

@toddrhodes 

I'm currently running my CDT2 into a modified MHDT Labd Balanced Pagoda, and I think it sounds outstanding. However I feel as though there is more musical information to be had, as well as me wanting to get tubes out of my source.

The MHDT is good enough that I don't feel as though it is choking my system, but I do feel as though it may be a bottleneck, as every other component is pretty neutral. 

The Rockna seems to be the best bet for relatively sane dollars. If the Terminator wasn't voiced downwards, I'm sure it would be my choice. I'm also interested in reading opinions on the Jay's Audio DAC. If they can make their DAC as amazing as their transport......then maybe that's the one for me. Who knows.

@lordcloud   All of our gear is 'voiced' as it is designed by humans, most of whom (one hopes all) listen to their products through development to commercial release.

I have over a year of deep experience with this DAC. With multiple changes in amplification, server, player, power, cabling and isolation, it has stood the test of time and has kept pace with each system related change. In fact, as the system has been fine tuned and optimized it has scaled beautifully.

This product walks that very fine line between timing+musicality coupled with an extraordinary ability to retrieve musical information and convey it with nuance and subtlety, all the while maintaining that 'elusive' balance.

It took me awhile to realize just how resolving and detailed this DAC actually is. It's not something it shouts out, which says volumes.

All the best in your decisions and choice.

While all equipment has a voice, I am not sure that all of it is voiced to sound a specific way. Yes, most is, but many also want to simply let as much information through as possible, while not sounding amusical. Price, experience, knowledge, materials used, etc. dictate how much of a voice a component has. 

I think that components like the Rockna, MSB Select DAC II, Aqua Formula, etc., try to be as transparent as possible, while the Terminator tries to impose a specific sound on the signal it receives. All components have a sound, but some are more overt than others. The Terminator seems to have a more overt sound, which almost everyone seems to love. I am just not sure if I will, as I want as little of a component's sound as possible, and as much of the sound of the music as I can get. Even if that means it sounds really bad.

I believe a component can be extremely detailed while still being very colored. I want the detail, with very little color.

I think that components like the Rockna, MSB Select DAC II, Aqua Formula, etc., try to be as transparent as possible, while the Terminator tries to impose a specific sound on the signal it receives.

And how do you know this?  You have said you would like to audition it, correct?

The statements you have made are based on reading (as far as I can tell from your above posts). They are not accurate nor valid, like the one above and the one below: 

If the Terminator wasn't voiced downwards

I have no problem at all with you choosing another DAC. At the end of the day it's your system, your money, your decisions. But I do have a problem with the statements you have been making.

BTW and FYI, Srajan's 6Moons review of the Terminator compared it as being exceptionally close to the then Aqua Formula. The current xHD version is described as being ahead now, however at a price point of ~USD $17K.

Per your own definitions, I don't believe the Aqua will meet your needs as both it and the Terminator are "voiced" similarly, per the reviewer who has extensive experience with the Aqua Formula and which remains his primary DAC. 

I think the Rockna is an excellent option. Your statement of what you are looking for is commendable in it's honesty, though I don't believe the Rockna will sound "bad" at all : )

I want as little of a component's sound as possible, and as much of the sound of the music as I can get. Even if that means it sounds really bad.

I also want you to know that both the Rockna and the Aqua Formula xHD are DACs that are on my list, should I decide to bring in other DACs, at some point in the future. 

I'm letting the other readers know that the Terminator will deliver exceptional performance at a fraction of the cost of the other DACs mentioned.

In my experience, since October of 2017, and with over 2000 hours of dedicated evaluative listening, I can state with confidence that it is a highly resolving and highly musical DAC.

@teajay   TJ, my apologies for my non Jay's Audio Transport posts... I felt the statements being made needed to be addressed...I hope you understand.

@david_ten 

Alvin, from Vinshine Audio has said this "FPGA coding on Terminator is tuned to produce lush, dynamic and musical sound." And just enjoy every single review has said the exact same thing. You can have whatever problem with the statements you think I'm making that you like. But they aren't statements I'm making. They are opinions I'm repeating. You have your opinions on what you hear, and they are just as valid as everyone else's. When you hear the words lush and warm, repeatedly about a product, you tend to think it might be lush and warm.

The 6Moons review did not say they were voiced similarly. He said this " and reseating a pair of XLR cables and the digital link. In no time and with no uncertainty, this showed how the Terminator was lusher in the midband; and had more general gravitas as though each of its steps left a slightly deeper imprint in wet sand. This moved color depth, tone body and dynamic impact into the foreground. In fact, this very much sounded like I imagine a combo of the Formula's power supply and resistor ladder would behave with the La Scala MkII's tube-buffered outputs;". If anything, he seems to be saying that it it voiced similarly to the La Scala, as opposed to the Formula.

I've heard the Formula. It is not lush or warm, and I've not read it often as being characterized as such.

I think you've misunderstood some things I've said. When I talked about something sounding bad, I was referring to recordings. As in, I want what's on the disc, even if it sounds bad.

I imagine you have some dog in the fight that is clouding your judgement, and leading you to believe that because I don't want a warm or lush DAC, that I'm saying the Terminator is somehow bad. I've not said this at all. In fact I've repeatedly said I've considered purchasing it. But the fact remains that the DAC is lush in the eyes of many that have heard it, and the guy that distributes it. So I'm not sure why you're arguing with me about this, as though I'm just making things up. I'm not.

Denafrips Terminator 6Moons Blue Moon Award 2017: "A 'Budget-Priced' True Reference DAC"

Perhaps the word 'Reference' isn't important....

BTW, the DAC in his stable for the comparison was the Formula and not the La Scala. Let's continue what you quoted above:

"Right there, at ¼th the Formula's price but with added DSD, the hammer fell....Ultimate transparency opposes ultimate body. It's bone versus flesh. Our Formula sat closer to the transparency polarity. By definition, this meant a slightly leaner more lit-up lighter presentation. The Terminator moved over a bit to the opposite pole. This included more voluptuousness and weight. Quite by design, it mellowed whatever glare the Formula couldn't exorcise on poor productions. Audiophilia calls that more forgiving. It means that more of your bad recordings sound better. Only radicalized audiophiles call that irrelevant."

Full page linked here for acknowledgement and reference:

https://6moons.com/audioreviews2/denafrips/4.html

They are opinions I'm repeating.

Yup, Third Person works like a charm. First person be torpedoed. : )

Heck, one reviewer, whose opinion I respect was mightily confused by this DAC. These are points in time, with very specific systems during those periods, not necessarily optimized ones to a specific component. So my findings are different than Srajan's. This is coming from a guy who values Srajan's take on gear and has purchased based on his recommendations. I will be purchasing a speaker he loves, in a few days. I also find it interesting and curious that Srajan is searching for amplification that offers much of what he "found" the Terminator's strengths to be, in his system at that time, for his current fave system.

I'm a high resolution listener and I'm saying I have been able to get the resolution you are likely looking for, at a fraction of what you are looking to spend. I can easily and inexpensively make this DAC lush, but I would not want to, nor have I.

Over the past year, many warm and less resolved components, including speakers, components, cables, etc. have found their way out of my system. The Terminator has stayed. I can easily make it less musical and focus the spotlight on the details...but that's not what I want or am about.

Far easier to get a resolved system than a highly resolved and highly musical system. The Terminator plays that way more difficult hand well.

My proposition saves you around 12K or more new. The Terminator sells well on the used market and your loss will be minor. The Rockna, or the others,...well... : )

That 12K bought me a reference level 2A3 amp and preamplifier.

And yes, I did actively consider both DACs on your list: the Rockna and Aqua; as well as the EMM Labs DA2.

I believe the Rockna will be the better option, given what you have shared, than the Formula xHD, that is if my 2 cents hold value, for you. : )

All the best.

What is going on? I know that in the review he was comparing the Formula with the Terminator. However you stated that in the review he says they were voiced similarly......which he didn't. Even in the portion you just quoted, he says they're not only not voiced differently, but voiced at opposite ends of the spectrum. The Aqua on the transparent end, the Terminator on the full bodied end. This is not in contradiction to anything I've said that reviewers have said. I'm not sure why you're framing it as such.

Again, I think you've confused things I've said.

Resolution is not the same as transparency. I have no doubt that the Terminator is extremely resolving. Almost everyone has said as much. However, if it's voiced to be lush, then it is embuing everything that passes through the DAC, with that lushness. Which takes away from transparency. Yes, nothing is completely transparent (my Tortuga preamp might be). I know this. But that's not the same as being purposely additive. Which the Terminator is. And that's not necessarily a bad thing if you aren't looking for extreme transparency. But I'm not looking for musical. I'm looking for something to pass along information untouched. That's just not what the Terminator does.

I've read very few reviews that don't paint the Terminator as being an amazing DAC. In the next few months I might own one if I conclude that the Rockna is to far above my budget (it kinda is). I'm really wanting to spend much less than $16k. But at the same time, I don't want to be looking at DACs for a long time either. 

There is a used Rockna in Houston. Might be worth the drive there to listen to it in person. I doubt many used options come up. 

@david_ten 

If I were financially in the position to buy it today, I would. Though I want a black one. I'm also really wanting to hear some reports on the quality of the Jay's Audio dac. Even though the price point is lowish, if we take into account the price of the CDT2 versus its performance.....I think the Jay's dac could be a giant killer. At least I'm hoping it is.

Anyone in the NYC area? I would live to hear one. Or is there a way to hear one in my own system with a trial period?  I don't buy anything based upon anyone's recomdation anymore. Not that I don't trust any of you but I don't.

Hi bigkidz (Peter),
I have one and it is built like a tank and sounds much better than my Directstream Transport.

Give me a call if you want to check it out. I also purchased a First Watt SIT-3 amp. Which sounds great with my speakers.

Joe