totally disagree,have tried the cat and audible illusions and vac and have found the amp made more of a difference.I use tubes all thru my system so its based on that and have approx 35,000 in my system. hope this helps |
I agree, although that's quite a bit of a mis-match. |
I consider them equally important sonically, and try to find components of comparable quality that complement each other, ie the ol' synergy thing. ICs, speaker cables, and power cords must work well with the components too. And then there's the source componets..........
But if I absolutely had to allocate bucks the way you say, I actually have sort of done it the opposite, ie my tube pre-amp had an MSRP of $3300., and my SS amp (with upgrade) $7500. I have no regrets doing it this way, and in fact there are some excellent tube pre-amps available out there for pretty reasonable prices-- well, at least in the "high end" context. Cheers. Craig |
.........Swampwalker's right, a $2K amp with an $8K pre-amp is quite a mis-match,IMO. |
I have a very similar experience with Darylhifi. I have tried so very many preamps and amps and over and over, I find so few preamps really bring on the musicality and involvement. And yet so many amps, even with their differences from model to model or company to company, rarely do I hear an amp that is not musical. I must say here that I have only experience with tube products though.
My advice would be to hear as many preamps as you can in your system or one that is as close to one you are persuing. You will know when the "right" one comes along.....and it may not be as expensive as you think. There are so many incredible preamps on the used market now in the $2k-4k range. This leaves so much money available to you for powerful mono amps or a top notch SE amp or even OTL to suit your needs for the speakers. Something along a $3500/$6500 split would be what I would expect to pay for preamp/amp.
And yes, once you find that preamp, the amp you end up with may have much to do with the synergy...but it will have much more to do with the speakers it(they) are to drive. |
The problem is easily solved if you buy a 2000 Supratek Syrah Preamp and spend the rest on an amp - I doubt you could find a better preamp if you spent the whole Enchalada on one alone.
Also - I would have to agree 100% with Jafox regarding the differences in amplifiers - and their similarities. Most deficiencies between various products can be made up with the right cabling - or tubes. |
The price of the amp is partially dependent on how much power you require, so the equation cannot be defined by me. All I would care about is whether the preamp was a match or slightly better than the amp. If the amp is better than the preamp, then the preamp will be the limiting factor and your then wasting money on the amp. |
I think there is another dimension to this argument.
I have found that, within most equipment lines, there is a price point optimum - above it, the differences are smaller, below it the magic is compromised. I can always tell when I get there during auditions. I suddenly stop listening to the sound and start listening to the music. I often have to snap myself back and remember what I am there to do.
The disadvantage of the approach you are taking is that you may settle below the optimum point for preamp while buying incremental improvement in the amp |
Yes the money split was more to illustrate I honestly do not hear major differences in amps , say for example a $2000.00 Rotel vs a $7/8000.00 Mac. However yes Im thinking solid state, sounds like the tube folks have a different perspective. The post was more for Saturday night discussion/entertainment . Thanks. |
I hear large differences between preamps -- SS or tube. But when it comes to SS amps, I too cannot tell the difference between $1000 amps and $5000 amps. Don't know about tube amps, as I have not tried any. If you are going to go with a tubed pre and a SS amp, I would spend most of my money on the tubed pre. |
i would buy the tube research mono 100s on this sight, for sale, and then worry about a preamp. i think as i said many times , the amps are even more important than speakers. enzo ferrari said ; i build engines and attatch wheels to it. |
There are a few exceptional companies out there that make very good products for the price, but for the most part, you get what you pay for in electronics. If you spent a certain amount of money on the amp, I would mate it with something that was close in price. To get the best for the price does require extra effort and research, but it will be worth it. You may end up overpaying (pre-amp)for something that will make very little, if any, difference in your system because of the lesser price of your amp. If you spent a huge amount of money on the pre-amp, but a lot less on your amp, you will probably wonder what a better amp would sound like with the pre-amp and so on and so on and may be continually wanting to update. |
In many systems, especially those with exotic speakers such as ribbons or electrostats, the most important synergy in the system is that between speaker and amplifier. If it took the 8 grand going into the amp to get that synergy, then that's where I'd put it.
With less demaning speakers, there are still far too many variables to state categorically how the money should be allocated. What are your top priorities, and what are you willing to trade off to get those qualities? Tradeoffs are inevitable, but if you're trading off something you don't place a high priority on then the negative impact is minimal. |
With 10k to play with, I would start with a First Sound pre and a Lamm M1.1. I have heard this preamp produce the magic,and I chose the Lamm for its' class a operation and stunning sonics.I love tubes,but I don't need the frustration of the sound changing as the tubes age-not as much a problem in low level equipment{pre,dac,phono}.Both pieces are available on the used market and should fit the dollar figure.M1.1s only use a single tube,give much of the benefits of tubes with ss control in the bass.Unless high power is needed for a low efficiency speaker or to fill a large room,they're hard to beat. Enjoy-Tom |
If I had to allocate $2K & $8K then I would pay closer attention to the preamp. I've gone through 5 preamps in the past year all of which were in a similar price category (~$500 to $1500 used) and they all had their own distinct character, strengths and weaknesses. And these differences were more pronounced than the differences between power amps that I have tried over the years. This of course assumes that your amp is at least sufficient to drive your speakers in the first place. Not that there's a magic formula but I would rather split the $10K more evenly, perhaps $6K preamp, and $4K power amp. (And again, only if the $4K power amp will be sufficient for whatever speakers you are driving). |
Tpsonic do you know who designed the first sound preamps? i wish not to say, but will say he is a brillint designer. |
He also designed the Presence Preamp ... |
