I see the issue with ABX blind testing

Seems like any non audiophile that hears my system expects to be blown back into their chair by the bass. That‘s what seems to matter. They are generally disappointed.

@tonywinga Yeah, these are the same people who have the contrast and sharpness controls cranked up to 11 on their TVs and think Bose makes good stuff. Oh well.

Seems like any non-audiophile that hears my system expects to be blown back into their chair by the bass.  That‘s what seems to matter.

It would seem they were disappointed because they were expecting a noticeably higher sound difference between your system as compared to what they have at home.

The analogy:

I imagine it is the same for televisions.  You could put an average 4k tv in a room with an ultra expensive TV.  I might see some difference, but the difference would not at all hinder my enjoyment of the programming.

But to a TV buff, the difference is monumental. 

The drain-circling that purported cable audibility causes could be avoidable.

…

A fellow HiFi guru says “I perceive no difference”, well, that poor soul doesn’t have sufficiently well-trained ears and/or resolving enough kit to cut it.

A musician says “I perceive no difference”, well, that player’s instrumental experience is too narrow.

A conductor / music theory prof says “I perceive no difference”, well, live music and stereo playback are two different things, so that maestro’s comparing apples to oranges.

A studio recorder/mixer/masterer says “I perceive no difference”, well, HiFi components that reproduce those recordings somehow reignite sonic elements lost or masked by gear-inattentive negligence of those techs who made said files.

Then another forum avatar types “I do perceive difference…”, and no experience or credentials need be forthcoming: that fella understands! The anecdote rolls into a collective mindset convinced of reality despite lacking enough general curiosity to rigorously test it.
Being curious about how things work and being obsessive about a things-fixation are not necessarily the same obstacle. The first setting can be proficient with objectivity (using appropriate assessments). The second setting can tend to think it masters objectivity (despite perhaps avoiding appropriate assessments).

And yes, anyone who swears cables are audible components and got upset by the term “snake oil” or someone insisting no difference could possibly exist, that’s the same tendency using different words, guised in an analogous package of pseudoscience. The two polarized mindsets can be much more alike than some folks seem to recognize.

I really like the tv analogy @jetter - well-chosen!

very well said ...

+1

And yes, anyone who swears cables are audible components and got upset by the term “snake oil” or someone insisting no difference could possibly exist, that’s the same tendency using different words, guised in an analogous package of pseudoscience. The two polarized mindsets can be much more alike than some folks seem to recognize.

I really like the tv analogy @jetter - well-chosen!

@benanders Your post is as slanted as it is ineffective in its stated upfront point that differences between objective/measurement and subjective/trust your ears types are avoidable. You give several examples of “experts” who hear no difference between cables and then contrast them with people with no stated “expert” credentials as being able to hear differences. That’s ridiculously slanted from the start and shows your inherent bias. The fact is that there are plenty of your so called “experts” out there who hear cable differences and plenty who do not hear differences. And likewise there are plenty of people you’d classify as “non experts” who can and cannot hear differences in cables. Further, there are tons of audiophiles out there who may not have your idea of credentials (recording engineer, musician, etc.) but who have extensive experience comparing various cables and can readily hear differences between them, and I’d submit that this experience gives them excellent credentials and are people I value — frequently more than so called “experts” — and who I’d like to hear from.

The first setting can be proficient with objectivity (using appropriate assessments). The second setting can tend to think it masters objectivity (despite perhaps avoiding appropriate assessments).

And there’s your bias laid bare Objective people use so called “appropriate” measurements whereas people who subjectively evaluate cables by listening don’t use what you call “appropriate” measurements and only “think” they hear what they hear, which is a not very veiled slap at their credibility. You have no idea what the “appropriate” measurements are or if they’re sufficient or comprehensive enough to reliably assess the overall sound of a cable, which they’re not BTW. You start your thread stating the rift between the objective and subjective crowds is avoidable, but it’s just not and your post does nothing to explain how or why it’s avoidable. The objective/measurements contingent is dug in as are the subjective/trust your own ears crowd and thus it will remain and is unavoidable. Then there are those of us who are open to both sides, but the reality is there’s precious little measurement data on individual cables so we’re largely left to use our ears in choosing specific cables, and that’s just reality like it or not. You’re clearly in the objective/measurement contingent but try to dance around and hide it — just own it and that’s fine, but these indirect backhanded slaps you give here and elsewhere to the subjective/trust your ears crowd are unsuccessfully cloaked in some foggy veil of being unbiased and show your true colors. Personally I don’t hop onto threads where people tout measurements as necessary to assess a cable’s sound (not that there are many of those threads) yet objectivists who need/rely on measurements or believe there’s no difference between cables constantly pollute threads where people are looking for and value others subjective opinions, and that’s just useless and frequently serves to just derail an otherwise interesting and useful thread. But that, unfortunately, is likely unavoidable and inevitable here. But back to the original point here, your post does nothing to address the unavoidable rift with regard to cables but does yet again expose your disdain for those of us who are able to use/trust our ears no matter how hard you try to hide it.