I am frustrated because I am an audiophile who cannot discern details from so many of the methods praised by other audiophiles. I joke about not having golden ears. That said, I can easily discern and appreciate good soundstage, image, balance, tone, timbre, transparency and even the synergy of a system. I am however unable to hear the improvements that result from, say a piece of Teflon tape or a $5.00 item from the plumbing aisle at Home Depot. Furthermore, I think it is grossly unfair that I must pay in multiples of one hundred, or even one thousand just to gain relatively slight improvements in transparency, detail, timbre soundstage, etc., when other audiophiles can gain the same level of details from a ten dollar tweak. In an effort to sooth my frustration, I tell myself that my fellow audiophiles are experiencing a placebo effect of some sort. Does anyone else struggle to hear….no wait; does anyone else struggle to comprehend how someone else can hear the perceived benefits gained by the inclusion of any number of highly touted tweaks/gimmicks (brass screws, copper couplers, Teflon tape, maple hardwood, racquet balls, etc.) I mean, the claims are that these methods actually result in improved soundstage, image, detail (“blacker backgrounds”), clarity, bass definition, etc. Am I alone in my frustration here?
So, what is the sciene behind the Margigo feet that makes them so good? I looked at the website, but didn't find any explanation. There's one review, but no analysis there either. Do they provide some sort of mechanical response to vibration, or is it the material they're made from?
I myself hear the differences more when I remove a tweak from my system than when I add it. I think it takes time for the item to break in, for me anyway. Try adding the tweak, wait a week or two then remove it and see if you hear the difference then. If you can not hear the difference then it is not worth it, return it. At Home Depot you can return an item forever.
Yes, the price on the Marigo feet is definitely an issue, especially if you find it works in your system.
One set for the preamp, another for the cd player, one more for the phono stage if your's is separate, then one or two more for your amp(s), that's real money. And that's not even mentioning two set of four for your speakers.
So, maybe the best strategy is just to keep Pandora's box shut tight!
In the case of your example with the copper coupler, I hear no difference. But I have dc charged cables. Certainly the are other examples of tweaks giving very modest or no improvements and even ones that at first I think are improvements only to change my mind. That is all part of the quest. I have tried other tweaks that give great improvements in some instances and great harm in others. An example of this is the Acoustic Revive QR-8 little quartz points.
Your own ears will have to be the judge. As the old warning goes YMMV.
"And money-back if they don't work in your system."
That would make a big difference to me to even consider an expensive tweak.
You need only resolve an issue once, like dirty power, poor matching ICs, etc. So a tweak that adds value in one system may not in another. I would drop that kind of money on anything that is not a sure bet. I might shop for it used though, then if it doesn't work out I can sell hopefully without taking a loss and another can try.
Does anyone else struggle to hear….no wait; does anyone else struggle to comprehend how someone else can hear the perceived benefits gained by the inclusion of any number of highly touted tweaks 2chnlben (System | Threads | Answers)
I have 3 highend, silver PCs made for me by Mel at Crystal Clear Audio Cables. Great guy, solid product. They were all supposed to be 1.5m long, but I had him make two of them shorter, 1m. Over the last three days I have swapped them around and find the 1.5m powerchord makes which ever component it is in sound much better. Finally left it in the preamp for maximum effect, tuner ect., now sound better. Ive read here that 1.5m length is ideal for power band, so maybe there is a reason for my perception. Point is if you mess around enough with tweaking here and there you may eventually get a ah-ha moment, and set a new baseline for tuning. To use Tvad's analogy, once you driven a Ferrari you know what good is suppose to be.
You mentioned Maple hardwood. My turntable sounds much better on a 3" thick maple block then on a 70lb granite base. Much too bright and shrill on the stone and more warm and lifelike on the wood. It's not my imagination.
A tweak is just a change of small magnitude compared to other more major changes that all together in the end determine how things sound.
The effects of tweaks are cumulative though. Some may have good synergy and improve things, others may have a negative effect, the effect of others may be too small to notice.
All that matters is that in the end your system is tuned to your tastes. Tweaks can help get you there. But if things are out of whack to start with in a big way, minor tweaks may be of little consequence. Get the big things right first, like the room/speaker/amp combo, then tweak away from there to fine tune things if needed.
The way I see it... If a tweak or even a component makes an audible difference than something was either wrong in the first place or afterward. If we agree that no component is ideal, then no system is ideal but an optimized system would be less sensitive to "tweaks".
No doubt some tweaks make a real difference. I can feel the vibrations on the surface below my amp. Isolating it made a distinct difference. Spent all day yesterday building sound adsorbtion panels, bass traps for room treatment. This morning everything sounded better, in suedo fact my tinitus disappeared. Was it the addition of the sound traps getting rid of those pesky first relection points or my usual relaxed Sunday listening frame of mind? BTW, the ringing returned after listening a while and then turning on plasma, DTV box and computer. Maybe i should apply those RMF sheets to the ceiling?
Somedays I hear the differences more than others. Hard to isolate your self from the process. Maybe the key is to meditate or self hynotize before applying a new tweak. Alternatively, get a third party skeptic with better ears to confirm and enjoy the change vicariously through their affirmations. :)
05-24-09: Cruz123 The only changes that have been significantly noticable in my system are component changes, modifications to equipment (and sometimes those are iffy) and speaker cable /interconnect changes. I have yet to hear a footer make much, if any, difference, though I do use soft footers under every device (I've yet to uderstand how placing a component on a hard object such as brass or grantite can reduce vibration, though my feable mind can kind of understand how a soft footer could insulate from vibration.) Also, contrary to many here, I have yet to notice significant, if any, improvements from a power cord, though I have tried many hoping something will eventually floor me. I use tube dampers and various CD tweaks, but I'm not sure they make any difference.
The crazy thing is that although I doe not perceive that I can hear the changes from many tweaks, I keep using them, believing that if I take them out of my system it will somehow result in a degradation. On the other hand, I am very happy with my system as it currently stands. Perhaps the cumulative effects of the various tweaks I use do, somehow, make a difference. Or, perhaps I just want to believe. Cruz123 (System | Threads | Answers)
There are two categories of "tweaks" which based on science must have some effect on how a piece performs:
1) a tweak to anything in the signal path from source to ears 2) a tweak that isolates a piece of equipment whose performance is affected by external vibrations or EM fields.
Turntables are the most susceptible to external vibrations. Other components may be as well but to a much lesser degree I believe.
Low level devices like phono step up devices and phono pre-amps are most susceptible to external EM fields. Line level pre-amps are also but the effects here are often more subtle and harder to hear without an a/b comparison.
You can see that phono setups can have a double whammy working against them so they are probably the part of a system that requires the most "tweaking" to get right. I think that's part of their mystique these days.
Tubes and IC and a few other components are the least expensive devices in the signal chain of a good system to tweak to good effect. I think that is part of the mystique with them for hobbyists as well.
The only changes that have been significantly noticable in my system are component changes, modifications to equipment (and sometimes those are iffy) and speaker cable /interconnect changes. I have yet to hear a footer make much, if any, difference, though I do use soft footers under every device (I've yet to uderstand how placing a component on a hard object such as brass or grantite can reduce vibration, though my feable mind can kind of understand how a soft footer could insulate from vibration.) Also, contrary to many here, I have yet to notice significant, if any, improvements from a power cord, though I have tried many hoping something will eventually floor me. I use tube dampers and various CD tweaks, but I'm not sure they make any difference.
The crazy thing is that although I doe not perceive that I can hear the changes from many tweaks, I keep using them, believing that if I take them out of my system it will somehow result in a degradation. On the other hand, I am very happy with my system as it currently stands. Perhaps the cumulative effects of the various tweaks I use do, somehow, make a difference. Or, perhaps I just want to believe.
It's a conspiracy, marketing or both. I am with the OP -- I struggle to understand how feet and other tweaks the night and day differences that I read about, moreover that the component itself was seemingly putting out a fraction of its potential without them. I've decided to take all those testimonials I read about with a lot of salt. Money for me is the determining factor -- beyond what i consider a reasonable expenditure, I won't try it. Any 'real' money is going to be spent on an upgrade, not a tweak.
In general, what I have discerned is that anything I put on brass spikes seems to be lighter in bass, thus sounding more 'airy'. Sorbothane has improved bass slightly in some instances (CD players). No tweak has ever been night and day. And the best tweak I've ever done was not to any component but to the room with acoustic paneling.
I tend to be very skeptical of the value of many elaborate high cost tweaks and that skepticism has served me well over the years.
Still, I do not doubt that many make a difference of some sort, but not all differences are necessarily "better", just different.
Over the years I have found there are affordable ways to accomplish most of one's listening goals.
There are some fundamental things one can do that are relatively easy if you just do some homework first to understand how the technology and physics behind audio works, like chosing amp and speaker combos that work well together, fitting speakers to the room properly, and assuring good physical and electromagnetic isolation of components.
There are other tweaks that both technically make sense to me that they will affect the sound and I can also hear a difference to confirm it. Simple precautionary power conditioning is one. Different sounding ICs are another.
Just remember that no two things sound exactly the same. However some differences are significant and others are not. The best way to find out is do some homework, experiment with different stuff, and listen carefully.
I think it is important as an audiophile to keep some balance between "the system" and "the music". Yet we seem to treat them differently. We may be frustrated because we don't hear some of what others report are obvious differences in system components and tweeks. At the same time, we a quite comfortable with liking some genres of music that others have no interest in.
I have decided what I hear and like is for me, not others. If a component makes a difference to me, I buy it. If I like a musician's work, I buy it. If not, don't. I have also found that where there is some science behind a tweek which I can understand and appreciate, I am more likely to give it a try. But even then, it might not make a difference which I can appreciate of find worth the cost.
Bottom line is don't fall in the trap of implementing something just because you have read somewhere that it provided a benefit to someone else. And don't feel guilty about it, because as these forums demonstrate, for every person that is promoting a change that makes a difference, there is someone just as deteremined that it does not.
Not alone. I rarely hear differences from the small tweaks you mention. Setting my speakers on isolation blocks made a difference but the 2 inches difference in height was probably the reason. My experience is the opposite of Imin2u's concerning ICs and speaker cables. Very little difference, if any, with ICs, while some speaker cables have made me sit up and notice. Have yet to hear a difference with any power cable change. This I attribute to clean power into my room. One of these days I'm gonna sell the PCs I've collected.
I have to agree, over the years I have come to realize that as an audiophile, I am subject to the power of suggestion. Sometimes the difference is so glaring you can't deny it, but other times especially on higher end cables vs. cables in the same price range, I strain to convince myself. Some say snake oil but I am thinking more along the lines of self hypnosis. But the adventure is in seeking those minor improvements, one step at a time.
I view it quite simply. If I can easily hear it, it is real. If someone has to tell me what it is or I struggle and struggle and, just maybe, hear a difference, it isn't real.
Hearing is believing. Unfortunately, too many times, believing is hearing.
"I can easily discern and appreciate good soundstage, image, balance, tone, timbre, transparency and even the synergy of a system."
This is all you need to build a nice system and enjoy the music. Most people can't do what you can and, as a result, audiophiles are a small percentage of the general public.
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