soix,
I sort of half agree.
It’s clear that at least some portion of audiophiles don’t really grasp the difficulties and costs associated with running a speaker company.
And that what seem like some high prices are actually justified when you understand the economics involved.
BUT....
My problem has been....how *far* can this be taken?
Does this mean that any speaker product out there is fairly priced, or priced along the same justification? It seems to me we can’t just do away with the idea of being "price-gouged" or "taken to the cleaners" or just outright scammed. Surely some speaker prices are more justifiable in terms of manufacturing costs.
So for instance in the Joseph Speaker threads, the cost of the Joseph speakers are argued to be a "fair" and reasonable extrapolation given material/production/design/business concerns.
That’s a different form of justification than, for instance, ’X is worth whatever I can get someone to pay for it.’
Because if we go with that latter form of justification than ANY speaker price can be justified if *someone* pays for it. It could conceivably include scams because...well...someone paid for X so X is worth that much. If we appeal to this type of value only - worth whatever someone will pay - then we have taken leave of the type of justification offered for Joseph or other speakers being "fairly priced based on X, Y, Z calculations."
So if we are sticking to the type of fair-price extrapolations in the Joseph thread, it seems to me not all speaker prices are going to survive that justification.
And frankly, there is something like those calculations going on when I find myself rolling my eyes at the prices for many high end speakers ESPECIALLY the upper end of many high end brands. Statement products and some below the statement.
The prices seem just ludicrously beyond what both the materials and engineering/manufacturing expenditure could justify. The only justification seems to be "someone will buy this at this price."
And I’ve seen numerous insiders mention how a number of speaker manufacturers - who may for instance be also trying to sell to the lucrative Asian market - have been told "this speaker will not sell unless you price it much higher." So they must raise the price - arbitrarily as it’s related to actual costs - and the speakers sell.
So, if we accept speaker value as "whatever someone is willing to pay"...well...almost any price becomes justified.
But if we talk of speaker value in terms of what seems reasonable pricing given the overall costs of that speaker manufacturer, then it seems there are all sorts of rip-off level pricing, related only to ideas like "If I price it much higher someone will figure it must be that much better."
I sort of half agree.
It’s clear that at least some portion of audiophiles don’t really grasp the difficulties and costs associated with running a speaker company.
And that what seem like some high prices are actually justified when you understand the economics involved.
BUT....
My problem has been....how *far* can this be taken?
Does this mean that any speaker product out there is fairly priced, or priced along the same justification? It seems to me we can’t just do away with the idea of being "price-gouged" or "taken to the cleaners" or just outright scammed. Surely some speaker prices are more justifiable in terms of manufacturing costs.
So for instance in the Joseph Speaker threads, the cost of the Joseph speakers are argued to be a "fair" and reasonable extrapolation given material/production/design/business concerns.
That’s a different form of justification than, for instance, ’X is worth whatever I can get someone to pay for it.’
Because if we go with that latter form of justification than ANY speaker price can be justified if *someone* pays for it. It could conceivably include scams because...well...someone paid for X so X is worth that much. If we appeal to this type of value only - worth whatever someone will pay - then we have taken leave of the type of justification offered for Joseph or other speakers being "fairly priced based on X, Y, Z calculations."
So if we are sticking to the type of fair-price extrapolations in the Joseph thread, it seems to me not all speaker prices are going to survive that justification.
And frankly, there is something like those calculations going on when I find myself rolling my eyes at the prices for many high end speakers ESPECIALLY the upper end of many high end brands. Statement products and some below the statement.
The prices seem just ludicrously beyond what both the materials and engineering/manufacturing expenditure could justify. The only justification seems to be "someone will buy this at this price."
And I’ve seen numerous insiders mention how a number of speaker manufacturers - who may for instance be also trying to sell to the lucrative Asian market - have been told "this speaker will not sell unless you price it much higher." So they must raise the price - arbitrarily as it’s related to actual costs - and the speakers sell.
So, if we accept speaker value as "whatever someone is willing to pay"...well...almost any price becomes justified.
But if we talk of speaker value in terms of what seems reasonable pricing given the overall costs of that speaker manufacturer, then it seems there are all sorts of rip-off level pricing, related only to ideas like "If I price it much higher someone will figure it must be that much better."