While I agree to most of the above statements, I have to call Birdieman's statement a ridiculous one. Is HE an audiophile? Did HE the blindfold tests?
I use to listen to music with eyes closed anyway, so I don't care about these "tests" at all.
Of course cables DO affect the system's sound. Simply because they are part of the chain. Since when is a chain's quality NOT dependent on the weakest part of the whole? Hence the quality of a cable is as important as anything else in the whole system. This discovery is relatively new plus the fact that some "experts" think that wire is wire and electricity is electricity and digital is digital makes it difficult for cable to prove their importance. As someone said above: take your time (!) and listen carefully to different brands and different concepts. If your ears are still in good working condition you WILL hear the difference. Now take step #2: What "sound" suits you more in regards on the music you love to listen to. If you listen to some crap the Radio Shack cable sure will do. The more sophisticated your material is the more EVERY part of your reproduction system will be important - so are cable! Then, finally step #3: check your purse and ask your minister of financial affairs (if there is one in the family) if a cable which found your heart and soul is worth the price. Of course there are over expensive cables, but is a Porsche NOT overexpensive? It sure is, but it kicks any other sports car's ass with ease. Now, if after all, listening to reproduction of music in your home is vital for you, you never would get the idea (again) to rate one part of the chain less important than another! Give it a try! It will be Christmas to your ears, heart and soul!
Ho ho ho - and good luck! |
Craig, I assume you drive a used Yugo and wear clothes from KMart. Functionally they are no different then a Mercedes and clothes from Macys. The car gets you to where you want to go at legal speeds and the clothes cover your bod. Anymore spent and you are wasting your money. |
If you blindfold most audiophobes they couldn't tell the difference between expensive cables and the ones that came with the gear! |
I would agree there is a lot of money to be wasted in this hobby and certainly the area of cables is one of them but no more perhaps than with say Wilson speakers or Krell monoblocks. Take a Radio shack gold cable - set it up on the left side of your system and say a Homegrown silver cable which as cables go is priced reasonably on the right side. If you hear a difference in the sound for the better with the silver than you will not have wasted your money except for the Radio Shacks. If you do not hear a difference than make an appointment to get your hearing checked (seriously). |
$ spent have nothing to do with sound Quality,Period.
If the guys who wrote for the MAGS said this the Add Dollors would dry up.
So someone has to propagate this lie.
The typical mark up for a MFG is 10:1. for every dollar they spend on making a cable they need to charge ten times more.
When I put toghter a cable that cost me 75.00 to make A MFG has to selli ti for 750.00 Retail.The Distributor get 50% off list and that leaves 375.00 for the MFG to pay for Salaries Advertising Labour and so on.
The biggest problem with Cable MFG is that they use 50:1 and in some cases a 100:1 ratio.
99% of them buy there wire off the shelf from Belden,Pirelli,Shawflex, you get the jist.
Cables make a big difference.You can buy decent stuff without sheling out 1k.I use a Interconnect that reatils for 300.00 I have not heard anything sound better.
My system retails for 25K so it does have the resolution to distingish.
Just because you cant measure it does not mean it has no validity.
Let your ears decide not from evey thing you have read.
The |
Craig(Garfish) don't worry there still moderating posts, I wrote a long one yesterday that some how didn't get up there, not the first time it has happened either. |
I remember when I discovered the truth about cables. I was at my local dealer just relaxing to some good sound on a set of his SoundLabs when he came in with another customer and said he was going to turn the sound off for just a second. When he turned it back on, I couldn't believe how much better the sound was. I immeadiately asked him what he did, such as different pre, amps or what. He told me no, that he had just put in different cables for this other customer. I don't care if those cables measured the same on paper or not, but no one can tell me that cables don't make a difference in the sound. |
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If you can hear the difference, like it, have the money, and the kids still eat, buy it. If none of the above, don't. Also, I agree with Tim. |
And as we classically know, there is absolutely no aeronautical reason why bumble bees can fly....but they do. |
Hang in there Craig. Good cables are important, but in spite of the arrogance of the other responders, there is no evidence that dollars spent equates to better sound. The only statement made by megabuck cables like "The Statement" is that someone has too much money (and not enough listening experience).
I didn't see anything in your comments that indicates that you believe that lamp wire is as good as a well designed speaker cable. But cable hits the point of diminishing returns faster then any other part of the system.
Cables do impact "sound" or character to the way a system sounds, and what appeals to me may not appeal to someone else, but having a set of Vahalla's may be a better conversation piece then the guarantee of a breathtaking listening experience.
And for those who will be quick to dismiss my comments (as they did yours) I've spent years and many thousands of dollars to come to the same conclusion as you. The fact is audio is a business and no where is the return on investment bigger then cable. High end component makers like Levinson and Conrad Johnson spend years and make major investments in research and development to develop new products. Most cable makers either re-package someone else's product or take an idea and just keep reselling it with cosmetic changes. Look at a 380S pre-amp and a few meters of high-end interconnect and tell me they should cost the same!
Have a little common sense, buy good cable and leave the megabuck stuff for those who measure their egos on the name brands they own. |
I agree and disagree. While i believe that wires / cables DO make a difference ( so i disagree with the main thrust of the post ), i do agree that most wires / cables are WAY overpriced and a source of great revenue for dealers / manufacturers. Then again, i think everyone knows where most all of the regulars stand on this issue. 100 times over... Sean
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Tim, Bob, Z, Martin; You guys are "right on". Craig ol' buddy, we've only been through this issue about 10,000 times. Is Audiogon no longer moderating thread or post submissions?
A'gon buddies, please don't take your ire out on all us "Craigs". I like good wire:>). Cheers. Craig. |
Sorry Craig, you just don't know what your talking about. This is really just wishful thinking on your part. Tireguy is telling it to you as it is. This is such an OLD story by now. I have lost count of how many threads have been over this topic time and time again, and there is almost always a testimonial from some die hard anti-cable guy who thought as you do and then was completely shocked when he found very significant differences when auditioning some good cables. Among those overpriced and hyped up companies are some amazing values and a means to some major improvements in sound reproduction. It takes time and effort to find your way through the cable maze, but it is worth it. That's what Audiogon is all about, audiophiles sharing their experiences.Come back when you've patiently tried 5 or 10 brands of cable and offer some of your impressions of them. Open your mind, and your ears will follow, I promise. Martin |
trolling trolling trolling along...
Craig you're clueless |
Here (definitly not HEAR) we go again. The first five words written by the poster are all anyone needs to glean of his "thoughts": "From everything I have read . . ." While audiophiles who aren't afraid to actually use their ears may also sympathize with his complaints about crazy prices and specious science, odds are most of their systems will sound better than his, too. Old, old story, my friend. Gain some listening experience, then come back and tell us something we can use - otherwise sit quietly and read to yourself! |
Well perhaps that is true, then again perhaps it isn't sounds as if your mind is made up already, no? Are some cables priced high? yes, does that mean they don't perform better then lesser cables? no, but you are reffering to the all to common law of diminishing returns. You first must have a system of the resolution to hear the differences, the subtle nuances that cables contain. If you are running adcom, paradigm system do you need to get Nordost Vahalla? NO WAY, but a decent kimber kable of some sort would make a huge improvement over radio shack cables. One man's crazy is another's sane, depends how important audio is to the user. I by no means have the best ears out there but I can hear the difference in cables, well most of them any way. Silver has a different more forward sound to it and copper is more relaxed, if you can't hear that your in the wrong hobby.
tim |
