@ghdprentice

I’m just curious. When you arbitrarily upgrade your system every 7 years, do you hear a significant improvement each time?

I really got into "stereo" when I was just a kid, maybe only 11 or 12. I could not afford anything and my parents just weren’t into it, and frankly would never have spent the kind of money it cost to buy the kinds of things I was fascinated with even if they did care. So I spent a lot of time just looking and listening when the guys in the hifi, appliance, and TV shops were willing to tolerate my presence. When I was maybe 14 I had managed to save enough to buy a couple of car stereo speakers which I put into some plywood cabinets. They were like a magic portal to "high fidelity" to me and I loved them, but I would have gladly dropped over a thousand dollars on a "high end" Sansui receiver with all of the knobs and meters and gloriously romantic backlighting.

Over the next few years I was able to get some lower end consumer grade, mass produced equipment from Radio Shack (don’t laugh. it still works!), appliance stores, classified ads, and even a branch of Hi Fi Buys which was a chain of boutique stereo shops. By the time I was 19 I had figured out that pretty much everything I bought sounded different, almost always both better and worse at the same time than what it was replacing, and was always extra fun to play with for at least a little while, but eventually just became familiar and enjoyable, or tolerable at least. Virtually nothing stayed exciting for more than a month or two. When I realized that a lot of what I was chasing was novelty and not really "perfect sound," I reexamined my priorities. I knew I’d grow to appreciate almost anything that I used enough and that nothing was ever going to be perfect, at least not for all of the wide musical styles I enjoy, and most certainly not anything in my price range. The one thing I did know was that nothing was more heartbreaking than having a beloved or system critical piece of gear fail. So I shifted my attention to build quality, durability, repairability, and ease of use.

Once I stopped chasing perfection in sound it became very clear to me that perfect reliability is also not possible, but it is a lot more tangible and easy to put a value on. So it became a lot easier for me to decide whether or not I want to spend $X on something based on how well I believed it would work (in terms of functionality) and how long I thought it will last before it needed to be replaced or repaired.

To no one’s surprise, I ended up buying McIntosh solid state amp, preamp, and radio tuner. They are from a brief period when McIntosh made an amp without the autoformer circuit, but it’s really great and I’m completely satisfied with it. The preamp has needed some pot cleaning, but it’s very nice too. I also bought a Technics SL1200 series turntable. Is it the best sounding ever? Not in my opinion. But it’s built like a tank and I love the fact that I have no doubt that it will work longer than I do. It sounds better than many many things with certain records and certain cartridges, and worse than others. But I don’t think there’s one turntable that is better at everything, especially not the ability to sound very good AND allow rapid replacement of the cartridge AND the phono cables.

Does this mean I spend all of my time just listening to music and not looking at gear anymore? Heck no! I’m HERE after all! Would I love to replace (or add to if we’re being honest) my McIntosh system with a setup from Nagra (with JBL Synthesis series speakers if you are curious)? Oh heck yes! But there are probably 20 other things I’d spend that much money on before I’d spend it on a "stereo" to replace the "virtually perfect" one I already have.

I think good enough comes from identifying priorities, probably mostly financial ones for most people, and certainly for me. Perfection on the other hand, that is something I long ago learned I will not find broadly. The best I think I can ever do is to find something that perfectly suits a very specific goal with narrowly defined parameters. It’s a thing of beauty when you find it, but I never expect it to apply beyond some fairly specific limits, one of the most important of which is usually just price.

.......when mahgister who does a great service here ; stops repeating the same answer to these threads over and over and over and over again. Happy Holidays everyone !    

.......when mahgister who does a great service here ; stops repeating the same answer to these threads over and over and over and over again. Happy Holidays everyone !

You are right for half of my posts... I confess...😁😊

An alzheimer begin😁ning at retirement ?

But i repeated with variations for beginners and anyway you can neglect my post if they are not interesting...

I hope the other half of my posts are interesting though ...In music recommendation and philosophical and acoustical reflexions...

I will take your advice in consideration though because you are not wrong ... 🤐

I wish you the best for your family and yourself...

Happy christmas.... 🎄

@dean_palmer 

That is an interesting take you have! You should write a book hypothesizing on how no one will care to read it! For some reason...I find it appealing!

I suspect that many of the folks who routinely post here in this forum are loners. Not that they (we) are loners in life, but let's face it, no one cares about you as much as you should care about yourself. Self-esteem has a lot to do with this hobby and most folks don't realize that fact. You (we) are focused on either trying to get better sound, or are making attempts to help others get better sound..all with differing levels of prosperity and commitment. 

With that being said, we all need something - especially in these fraught and tumultuous times - to allow us to get away from fear, anger, mistrust, and varying emotional distress. Getting away to a listening position is a superb way to wallow in your own making - one that generally makes us all feel good about ourselves - so we have a lot in common with one another.

But as audiophiles, we live far and few between one another. Most of us do not have many supporting mechanisms in place with regards to this hobby. Yes, my wife sometimes applauds an upgrade or reacts positively to the music, but she has no idea of how intricately I deliberate over everything that has to do with what being an audiophile means. Although I will admit that her talk of me going "down the rabbit hole" when I started placing sound dampeners and deflectors on our basement walls did get my attention! (However, she did remark later at how good the dampeners sounded! lol). Ok, small victories serve us listening loners well..

I grapple with this hobby daily and all audiophiles find positive reinforcement from it, even if it means you did something wrong and perhaps, "failed". Those whom I subject to sound don't give a rats *** about sensitivity levels, gain, or detail. I catch myself when I talk tech to others whose face grows longer the more I speak..why bother? So, you are correct in stating that, "Once you realize nobody cares about what you bought, you'll be in a better place."  

I believe (I will write the prologue for your book!) that what you are inferring is intellectual humility. We all should view the world with the understanding that we know nothing and need to learn everything. That would serve many audiophiles well. Audiophiles should get over their need to post about something they refute as it is counterproductive to learning. I mean, if you can't hear a cable then how have you assessed or aggregated an opine on it? 

We are likely incredibly different people - judging from the large swaths of deleted posts! - beyond the scope of sound but we all share the same pride at what each, and others, have created. That is an important feeling of achievement that audiophiles chase after. The "good enough" abstract brought by the OP is generally always a couple of steps away from perfection.

Enjoy the journey! 

OP …”I’m just curious. When you arbitrarily upgrade your system every 7 years, do you hear a significant improvement each time?”

OMG, yes… enormous. Each generation has been such a huge jump. In fact, each component is a very real and substantial improvement.. It can take a year or two for me to do the upgrades. So, for instance I may start by the speakers or preamp… the jump is phenomenal. I spend enough time to get it broken in and appreciate the upgrade in itself before upgrading the next piece.

I a m not sure arbitrarily upgrade is quite right. It tends to be a function of my finances… although very subconscious. I enjoy my system and I think my subconscious keeps track of my finances close enough to tell me when, if I really stretch, I can make a substantial upgrade… which as I am sure you know, for me is to as a minimum double my investment in each component. When I in upgrade mode, virtually every spare minute is reading, evaluating, dropping by audio shops in towns I am flying through… switching into critical listening mode for a lot of the time. 
 

So, when compete, I have a system that is better in no small measure in every respect from its predecessor. I will say I have gotten better and better (yes, partly due to overall improvement of high end audio) at upgrading and the difference has become larger and larger with each upgrade. The last upgrade was definitely the very largest sound quality wise I have ever made. While the investment level was by far the largest, I feel that the ten years of season tickets to the symphony had significantly changed my goals and contributed to the success of this last upgrade. 

How good is good enough?

The answer/answerS aren't so utterly defined by the gear as they are defined by the room, + the actual recording.

Now if I had a room with bang on acoustics that was 18-20ft wide at the front wall and 26-28ft wide at the rear wall. 36-40ft long, with a coffered ceiling 14ft high, then the law of diminishing returns could run hog wild.

One could justify up grading that Denon DL-103R cartridge for a Dynavector TE Kaitora, because in the described environment the expenditure would be clearly audible.

In a room where most of us pee-ons reside (mine is 12x26x8), the above expenditure would be indicative of an individual that has more dollars than sense.

Ya can't make a canon sound good going off in a phone booth, anymore than you can make a pop gun sound impressive going off in a corn field.

How good is good enough? When one has optimized their system to their applicable room!

Enjoy the voyage.

In order to enjoy your system after you’ve found out what’s “good enough” you have to establish that as your base line. After that, you can judge the quality of each recording based on its own merits, and not obsess that any problems are caused by defects in your system. It’s very easy to go down the rabbit hole if you listen for defects instead of listening to the music.

rvpiano OP: That is very true and also applies to most thing in life.  It's all based on personal experiences.  Some are content with a pair of rubber sandals as opposed to going barefooted, while others aren't content with a $1500 pair of shoes.

OP,

You bring up a really important issue. Once you upgrade, then you play music.

If you have a detail scraping system… you end up hearing the worst possible rendition of any recording… only the very best recordings sound great. If your system is musically oriented then most recordings sound great and the ones that sound great on a hyper detailed system sound extraordinary.
 

You have to be very carefully on the criteria you use to evaluate potential components. If it is the most details you can hear, then it is likely to end up, bringing out the shortcomings of every album and not it’s strengths.

@rvpiano It’s very easy to go down the rabbit hole if you listen for defects instead of listening to the music.

Agree with this statement by rvpiano. Also, I'm observing once again why its important to give a new system or new components time to settle in.  Its not always  about 'just getting use to it". There can be change that occurs, given the chance. 

Patience helps from jumping out of one rabbit hole to another rabbit hole. 

Isn't this a question every audio crazy has to answer for himself?

Yes!