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How can I reach vinyl nirvana with my setup?

I know my system is capapble of sounding better when it comes to playing vinyl, but I don't know how to get there. My system: Rogue Cronus Integrated tube amp, Spendor 5/3e speakers, Project RM-5 with Shure V-15 III cartridge, Bellari Tube phono stage, Tandberg 3014A cassette deck, Sansui TU-717 receiver, Cambridge Audio 640C CD player, Audioquest Copperhead interconnects. I upgraded from the Goldring 1.2 to the Project and experimented with different cartridges but I'm still not satisfied.

The best piece of equipment is the Tandberg – it brings cassettes to life – at least the ones that that were decently recorded. This piece is like my reference. The cd player is decent as well. So that I know what kind of sound is possible and the weak link is from the vinyl source. It lacks the power, presence, and definton that comes through the Tandberg and even the Cambridge Audio 640c.

I have some wonderful audiophile recordings in pristine shape too plus a couple hundred other records that I keep in relatively immaculate condition. So I am very interested in improving my vinyl playback quality.

My upgrade budget is about $1000 - Should I upgrade my phono stage, my cartridge, my turntable? What would you suggest for gear if you could make one or two changes? Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.
waukeag
8 responses Add your response
narrod
1,064 posts
 
First of all, be sure the cartridge setup is spot on. It can make all the difference in ho-hum and spectacular. After that, I would upgrade the cartridge first, the phono stage next, then the arm and lastly the table. Again, don't do anything until you know the setup is right and you're getting all the performance that is available with your current system.
jaybo
4,478 posts
 
i think you're fine for now...unless you don't enjoy your system, keep it.
photon46
1,082 posts
 
While I have no experience with your table, I suspect that as an unsuspended design, it's playback quality is going to be affected by it's support surface. What is it sitting on? Both my Empire 598III (suspended) and VPI Scout (unsuspended) benefited enormously from a maple platform ala the Mapleshade platforms. The first one I had was only 1 1/2" thick and it made a real improvement in bass extension, ambience retrieval, and soundstage. I then made a 3" thick one that's a bit better. Otherwise you appear to have a pretty well matched system.
gregm
3,405 posts
 
Place yr TT on suitable support, as above. "Neuance" shelves are a good and reasonably priced option ($~200). With the rest of the money, you may want to look for a used phono.
Before you do that, check out yr phono chain: "It lacks the power, presence, and definton".
You seem to be suffering great loss of energy somewhere along the line cartridge set-up->phono input->phono output to integrated...
waukeag OP
2 posts
 
Thanks for your suggestions so far. I read about turntable support and have employed a thick piece of steel that was formerly a ford pickup clutch. It is properly balanced and set on thin pieces of acoustic foam. The look is industrial which complements the round minimalist look of the pro-ject turntable.

I am thinking about upgrading to a blackbird cartridge and either a rogue stealth or graham slee phono stage - by selling my existing bellari - which will sort of keep me in budget.

But a serious question is - do you need to have a VPI or better TT to just get decent vinyl sound? And if so, why? Isn't a turntable jsut functional and it is the cartridge and phono stage that carry the signal from there? And in that case, is my turntable ($600) worth upgrading with a $700 cartridge and a $650 phono stage?
photon46
1,082 posts
 
Waukeag, It sounds so simple: a turntable is a seemingly simple device that serves as a platform for the arm and cartridge to do their job. That "simple" task is a far more nuanced engineering challenge than is initially apparent. The problem of isolating the motor vibration/noise and bearing noise from the arm/cartridge is one parameter where a designer's skills are tested. The signals generated by the cartridge are very tiny and the mechanical vibrations a table generates in process of driving the platter are competing for amplification. These engineering challenges can generally be more successfully addressed when more money is spent. Don't assume that your support issues are best resolved with your present solution. Maybe it works really well, but I don't recall metal platforms as being a well regarded support for this application. As to your last question, yes, you'll gain audible gains with a better (well chosen) cartridge and phono stage. Even if you don't realize their maximum potential with your current table, you'll still gain. Plus, if you upgrade your table later, you can still probably use them on the new table.
gregm
3,405 posts
 
you need to have a VPI or better TT to just get decent vinyl sound
AFAIK yr TT AND yr cartridge, both, are fine. You SHOULD be enjoying good sound -- at least, I've heard the TT and found it great.

Check all the cartridge connections; borrow another phono just in case yr Bellari has a problem s/where.
You don't need a new ANYTHING just yet. By the looks of it, you haven't heard what yr vinyl sounds like yet.
photon46
1,082 posts
 
Gregm is right, your setup as it is now should be providing you with decent sound. I didn't mean to imply that what you've got is substandard, it's just that more bucks can buy better performance. I'm using a Cambridge 640c as a transport, so I know one of your references. Try to eliminate the problems in the manner Gregm suggests checking first. Something just doesn't sound right, you should be getting better sound. If you wanted to try an relatively inexpensive experiment with different supports, wood chopping blocks from a kitchen store have been mentioned in other threads as a good place to start. You can also try cartridges and phono stages from AudioAdvisor with a 30 day money back guarantee if they don't make enough of an improvement.
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