hospital grade or commercial grade receptacles ?

This thread has gotten pretty boring. I also noticed a few of my responses are missing. (Sorry, Albert. I know you look so forward to them.)

Frankly, I'm going to miss you guys. One thing that might interest you though, my wife, a relatively accomplished musician, wants me to demo some power cables for her. She wants to see what all of the fuss is about. So I'm going to talk to some dealers and see if I can get a couple loaners for the amps. We're not going to be home together for a few weeks, so this'll take a while. But if I can get the loaners I'll post and let you know what she thinks. When we do the test I'll blindfold her so at least she won't know what she's listening to. It ain't double-blind, but we can't have my skeptical looks influencing her.

Have a great holiday.

I second Tvad. Quality power cords on amps are low-priority in my experience--that is, if the amp already has something that's not the 18-gauge 3-dollar molded kind. Players, then preamps benefit most, and in that order.

If you have separates, the DAC would usually come before the transport in the lineup. However when I had my old Cambridge Discmagic / Isomagic pair, the transport's cord turned out to make more difference than the DAC's.

Irvrobinson...My dog says "woof, woof". Make what you want of this.

Hdm...I don't think that it is valid to compare a 115 vac wiring change with the Underwood mod to the Denon player. The mod involves replacement of a lot of active circuitry, and it is entirely to be expected (on a purely scientific basis) that the sound characteristics will change, for the better we hope.

When I tested the cryo'd outlet I put on my objective experimenter's hat. Believe me it would have been much more interesting if the test results had come out the other way. If anything, I was biased towards hearing an effect.

OK, the pre-amp and the CD player it is, rather than the amps.

Is this the same Irvrobinson who said, "Don't waste too much money on powercord-related stuff. Save your money for better speakers, acoustical treatments, amps, and source components (probably in that order). Those are the things that make a difference. Use your head and reason, don't just read advertising and bogus magazine reviews. How could an outlet provide such a superior connection that water boiled 20% faster? That's poppycock. Put on your thinking cap."

Tbg, I have no intention of buying a power cord. My wife wanted to see if she could hear a difference. She knows I think she's wasting her time, but she read some of the high-emotion responses to my posts and wants to hear for herself. Local dealers are willing to lend out cables, and I'll just take them up on offers they make anytime I go shopping. It's no big deal.

Like the quote said, put on your thinking cap. And, like Albert, take a reading lesson, then read the posts. I think differences in power cables and outlets, cryo'd or not, are an illusion, and nothing posted here - NOTHING - has changed my mind a bit. I've experimented and heard nothing, and that's because there's no difference to hear. I'm indulging my wife's curiosity, nothing else.

This thread is a very entertaining read, I have to say. However, I think some people may be getting confused here. This whole thing about "music" cannot be explained by science. We are talking about RE-CREATING pre-recorded music through audio equipment here, not creating original music. It is pure science and nothing else.

Contrary to some here, Robin, I don't really care if you hear a difference (or not), If your wife does (or not) or if you buy these things (or not). Your mentality is messed up so you'll be like those guys that theorize belt drive TTs sound better.

I've seen the face of a friend like you change as I replaced the stock power cord in his CD player for a cryo'ed Absolute Power Cord.

***

What is impure science? Those will misstate their position as more scientific don't know science. It is a catchword like calling someone a communist. I must say that I really don't care what the pseudo scientists crowd says and continue to delude myself with my sound system.

Among scientists and laymen alike, there are those who make discoveries that explode universal beliefs, while others spend every breath to cement 'unquestionable truths'.

To those who have stopped questioning, I ask, "What happened?" Because none of is born with a resistance to exploration. Not in ANY field of understanding.

Tbg....An example of "impure science" is...

1. Resistance in speaker wires is bad. (true).

2. Therefore, a resistance of 0.01 ohm will sound better than 0.02 ohm. (absurd).

You took a short cut to this definition.

Eldartford, that explanation is a fraction of what occurs when electricity passes through wire. In fact, I think next to proper gauge for the conductor, possibly the most important thing is the insulation.

Insulation can store energy and release it in non linear ways and various layers between the conductor (and outer jacket we see) can have a huge effect on sound.

A perfect example is Purist Audio power cables, which I am so fond of. The conductor is approximately 10 gauge and constructed with a mix of metals that have proven to provide excellent results.

My argument is NOT that Purist Audio's mix of metals is so proprietary that Audioquest or Shunyata (or whoever) cannot duplicate it, but rather the shielding, grounding and isolation from vibration, EMI and RF are of equal or greater importance.

Most of the time plugging in such a cable results in a blacker background with a more relaxed presentation and improved textures and resolution.

To understand this, you need to view the power cable as PART OF THE POWER SUPPLY rather than an extension of the Romex in the wall.

If you assume your AC power is perfect and your power supply in your stereo gear is immune to EVERY POSSIBLE contamination, then possibly the power cord will have less effect. However, there is still the issue of vibration.

For that reason, there is more than one audiophile manufacturer that addresses that problem in the construction of their power cables.

The energy drawn through the wires moves the wire vibrating it. A perfect example is caused by strobe lighting used in my photo business. The capacitors in the power packs sometimes causes the walls of buildings to "talk" back every time a burst of energy is drawn.

This power draw through the conduit is powerful enough to "bang" the conduit against the wall. I have had this happen hundreds of times over the last 30 years, even in high rise commercial properties.

In the last ten years I have seen almost no situations where a premium power cord did not help the equipment it was plugged into. Differences in design from manufacturer certainly provide an array of results, some of which I find desirable and some I do not.

To say that they effect in no way is absurd. In fact I hear differences between different brands of male wall plugs. Most often this manifests itself as tonal balance changes but sometimes as distortion. I assume this has to do with conductivity, vibration, and clamping action.

It's all important and cannot be measured with a volt ohm meter or resistance specifications.

first.excuse my grammar because english is not my natural language,but after going through this thread,i couldnt help myself but to jump in and sharea little of my own opinion.I am an EE for HP for the last 15 yrs designing hi-end server micro-processor.i do have my MS in EE,so i do know a bit about electrical signal.when i first start out this hobby,i think it crazy when people can hear the difference in cable and IC,because on theory ,there is no difference,but i have an openmind to keep trying out all diff cables to see if my ear can pick up the differences.Now,3 years has gone by and i still cant hear the difference,but i do not doubt any one who can,because there are more then just a few that swear that they can.I dont think those people are stupid enough to spend thousand of dollars on something that they cant tell the different.what i am trying to say for mr IRV and Eldartford is,comming from the same electronic background like you two,i understand where you are comming from,but dont you think there might be 1 day that technology will come up with something that might be able to measure the differences in cables that only certain person with gifted hearing to pick up those signals??..just my opinion.

Very eloquent, Albert. Very eloquent.

Tvad, what color is love?

An update to my set-up; I had to change the electrical cable from a two wire (12/2) to a three wire (12/3) to
facilitate the correct installation of the isolated ground system. This was needed even with use of plastic boxes in the wall for the receptacles. I would also like to mention that a seperate isolated ground bar (plastic) is required in the electrical panel, hooked-up to its own ground rod. This made the system totally seperate from the rest of the house's system. Or so I have been told .
Just as a hedge against obsoletion, I also changed from 12 guage cable to 10 guage cable. So now I am running 10/3
with ground from the breaker box to the outlets. Two dedicated runs, each operating two H.S. grade isolated ground duplex 20A. receptacles. The change in cable necessitated an expenditure almost 4 fold, from about $27.00
to just over $110.00 ! I was actually able to purchase a roll 250ft. long for about the same price as having two 60
ft. pieces cut from the spool at Home Depot ! Exactly the same wire from the same manufacturer. Make sense ?
It is supposed to be hooked-up next tuesday.
Again, thank you to all who contributed information to my cause. This is a great forum !

After reading this thread (I actually read every single one of them) I felt compelled to make my first Audiogon forum post. This is taken from an article in Stereophile in a review of the Infinity Prelude MTS speaker system. I believe it applies because you have a very technical guy and an experiece guy look at the same set of speakers. Also, the experience guy heard something that couldn't be measured in the 70s, but he ended up being right. Just an interesting article in light of this thread. The funny thing is that the section of the review is actually titled the below introduction.

Do I Want My Myths Shattered?
You may ask why, after a day of heavy
pummeling by Floyd Toole—a CDloving
scientist who relies strongly on
measurements, who cuts mystics and
“observational reviewers” no slack, and
whose research proves that when we
can see what we are about to hear, we
form hopelessly prejudicial responses—
I still wanted to review these speakers.
You also may ask why he’d want them
reviewed by someone like me—or by
any “observational” reviewer, for that
matter. Actually, he may not, given
some of the disparaging things he’s written
about nonscientific, “casual” reviewing
in his published research.
There may be a single answer to both
questions: In discussing the bass-equalization
feature, Toole admitted that
attempts at this made in the 1970s yielded
great measurements but, according to
the golden-eared, “bad bass.” And guess
what? The ears were right. The observational
types heard things that the primitive
measuring devices of the time
couldn’t. Today’s gear shows—and
Toole showed us—that 1⁄3-octave equalization
mutilated bass performance in
ways that were then unmeasurable but
clearly audible. So if I didn’t like the
sound of these “near-perfect’’–measuring
loudspeakers, I had an out: I was
hearing things not yet measurable.

The review went on to say how much the reviewer loved these speakers. Anyway, I have a question now.

Which cables are the best to use? I have heard alot about Purist Audio but what about Cardas or the BPT cables?

Also, are Wattgates that much better compared to the Hubbell outlets? They are about 3 times the price. Just curious about thoughts on all of this.

Jeff

It seems that this thread has wandered from a discussion on receptacles to a general discussion on power cables and whether they actually change audio quality.

So, here's my anecdote. A couple of years ago I bought a Wadia 301, and the seller threw in an Acoustic Zen Tsunami power cord instead of the stock cord. I was not a believer in power cords being able to make a difference, because, as has been pointed out, they are not in the signal path, but I used the Tsunami because "it was there."

I eventually sold the 301, but kept the Tsunami, and got a Wadia 861 w/ GNSC's Statement upgrade. Again, I used the tsunami because "it was there."

After a few months, I bought a new rack for my equipment, and after setting everything up, I listened to some CDs, and immediately noticed the sound quality was thinner, there was little bass impact, the soundstage was a bit unfocused. I thought that I made a huge mistake with my rack "upgrade." After fiddling with all sorts of things, I noticed that I had swapped the power cords on the Wadia and my phono stage, so that the Tsunami was not on the Wadia.

I figured that I'd swap it back, since nothing else was helping. Lo and behold, the Wadia came back to life with all the depth and air and focus that it had before.

I did not believe in power cord differences, and was not looking for power cord differences....In fact I did not even realize I had changed power cords at first, but just knew something had screwed up my sound. But, I discoverd that having a better power cord on the Wadia does in fact make a difference.

I can't explain why....but I can tell you the difference is not subtle.

FWIW.