Hiss (noise) from speakers at addition in system LAMM L2.
Three weeks ago, I have bought preliminary amplifier L2 reference Improvement in sounding all system was huge!!!! The overall dynamics and scale of the music!!! Illusion of a presence(finding) in a concert hall has appeared.
But I am disturbed with the following: At addition in system L2 strong enough noise (hiss) has appeared from speakers. At inclusion of toggle-switch MUTE hissing disappears, at deenergizing Toggle-switch MUTE all room is filled with noise (hiss). Even at listening music on silent passes or piano music Such noise level it is normal or L2 demands repair?
I owned a L2 Ref 2 years ago. Had the same issue which drove me nuts. I did everything I could (bought new tubes, rebiased numerous times, changed cables, got balanced cables, moved my rack (thinking it might be and RF issue), took both isolated both pieces from the rack, swapped in another amp. You name it I tried it as I did love what it did in terms of musical presentation. Spoke to Lamm and on their advise shipped both crate "air express" from western Canada to NYC - OUCH at almost $500 return. They could not find anything wrong with it. Since it was there I had them upgrade all the toggle switches to the current version.
Got it back and still the noise but mine was more than a hiss it was more like a sizzle. Had my buddy John Wright of Museatex fame give it the once over - still the same problem.
While it bettered my resident Hovland preamp the Hovland was dead quiet in comparison. In the end I sold it. I could not justify its "issue" for what I had in it.
As Grant advises it may not be for you which was my case...
forgot to add that I threw mine on a BPT balanced conditioner and also ran it on its own dedicated 20A line - still had the problem. Got an email from a gent in Europe after I posted my findings and his L2 Ref had a similar problem. I would imagine what could be this preamp's "best" match is a Lamm amp(s) but that was not in the cards for me...
The pre will hiss no matter what you do. The hiss comes from the mosfets in the circuit and higher gain amps on more sensitive speakers will hiss more than others. You either live with it or sell it. For me, I chose to go a lower gain amp and it remedied the problem well enough for me.
I had BAT Rex in my system recently, paired with BAT 75-SE, and it was "dead silent"- I could only hear very low level ground loop- type cycling humm with my ear literally 1" from the tweeter, which I'm positive, was related to my power lines, rather then Pre/Amp themselves. So, I guess hiss is a byproduct of less, then perfect design, and not inherent to tubes or mosfets for that matter.
Just for reference, I had the lamm pre in a system with Coincident Total Victory, Revel Studio and Verity Parsifal. There was some degree of small hissing with all but none really annoying except one combo: Coincicent TV with Antique Sound Labs 1009 60 watt monos. The hiss was very audible. I had a 200 watt Edge NL 10 in that system that was fairly silent, surprising considering the power difference. Currently the Lamm M1.1 are paired with the Verity and the hiss is only audible if you put your ear to the tweeter. So in my experience it appears to be a amp gain speaker sensitivity issue. The lamm pre is the longest surviving component in my system and is the last one that will leave.
My system: Mark Levinson ML-390S Preamplifiers LAMM L 2 amplifiers LAMM M 1.2 Dunlavey SC-V Purist Audio I always thought, that Preamplifiers and amplifiers one manufacturer Will well incorporate However hisses strongly even on distance 15. Can change L 2 on LL 2??? What Preamplifiers LAMM L 2 or LL 2 hisses less??
"I often wonder if some of us are more sensitive to hiss than others, and were we to listen to the same system at the same time if some of us would object to hiss we hear whereas others would not."
Absolutely true. I am one of those that can not stand hiss, (usually introduced via tubes), that is audible from one's listening position. I have sold all of the tube preamplifiers (and tube phono preamps), that I have tried becasue of this. That eventually led me to use the (solid state) Ayre K-1xe preamplifier, and its phono boards, in order to get as deep, dark blackground as posible. (FYI: I am very happy with the results, and doubt I will ever go back to a tube preamp.)
And what is funny is that I can ignore pops and ticks from records, which is how I listen to 90% of my music, but not low level hiss. (Well, a limited amount of pops and ticks anyway. Too much of course spoils it for me.)
However, I do realize that I like how tubes make the music sound, so I have managed to interject a nice touch of tubes via my Lamm M2.1 monoblocks. They only use one 6922 tube in the driver section of the amp, but it is enough to make the music come alive. (I will state that I use NOS Amperex pinched waist tubes, because I want the absolute best of the tube sound, and since I only need two, the exorbident cost of these tubes is somewhat mitigated.) And yes, it does introduce a very small touch of hiss, audible only by putting one's ear to the speaker, but it's not audible from my listening position.
If you can find that you can live with the hiss, you're probably better off in the long run, as the Lamm L2 reference is a wonderful preamp, and incredible musical, and one of the better preamps around. (Assuming you can live with the hiss, and its lack of a remote, (which was the deal breaker for me).
FWIW In various tubed preamps I have had good luck reducing hiss by using Rothwell Atennuators at the amps input(s) also they have elimated AM radio leaking through my speakers.
Prior to acquiring my L2 Ref I also auditioned the LL2 Deluxe and loved it. It bettered my Hovland HP-100 and did everything well. Funny enough it was as quiet as the Hovland and both were dead quiet as compared to the L2-Ref! The only reason I jumped on the L2-Ref was I thought (and maybe foolishly) it would be that much better than the LL2 deluxe which in my case it was not. Based on typical used prices IMHO the LL2 Deluxe is the darling of the Lamm line-up...
how could u possibly deal with a piece of equipment that introduces a hiss to your system? i dont care how good the soundstage is. i would junk it or sell it. it would be a good idea to let the poor potential buyer know about the issue.
Tvad agreed on the loss of transparency with the Rothwells but its the only thing I have found to work to eliminate the AM radio leaking through to the speakers. Shielded cables help but the Rothwells completely eliminate it. Strange as it may sound.
Rgd and Tvad, I agree with your assessment of the Lamm LL2 preamp. Especially at its resale price it is a screaming steal and a wonderful musical preamp that flat-out danced with my ML 2.1s. I found the musically to hiss trade-off to be extremely positive...and the hiss to be sort of a small attention getter setting the stage for what was to come.
It was and I still maintain that the L2Ref is a wonderful preamp that did not work out for me. It was my first foray into a big ticket expense (at least according to my level of disposable income) that left me gun shy on making further commitments at such an expense level. I have found that an ARC LS-26 (acquired at a really great price) has fit the bill nicely. My aural memory, like many people, is short so I cannot say what differences there are between these 2 preamps as there were months between them being in my possession but the LS-26 has been a solid performer from day 1 and is not on my list of components to upgrade.
I've had both the LL2 DLX & currently the L2 Reference! I'm using it with Lamm ML1's & Wadia 861 cdp. Connected with Nordost Vahalla balanced IC's & Klipschorns! If any system should have hiss this should be the one "dead quiet"!! Considering 581ise.
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