Yes, I agree. I recently hooked up a much more powerful Classe CA-2300 to my B&W 802N and quickly learned they can put out serious bass. |
I have to disagree about amps effect on speakers. On my old speakers the bass using a NAD 326bee was nothing like the old exposure. The exposure produced. Very tight and deep bass that imaged very well. The bass was no where near as tight and did not image very well on the NAD. Yes they are in total different leagues but I have seen an amp greatly affect bass and image. |
From my experience, the sound signature of the 2010s2 is a lush, comfortable and hazy treble. All the details are there but are "misty." I have the amp paired with Harbeth SHL5 which has very good bass. The 2010s2 has no problem driving them to very high levels with the deepest bass I have had. But, if your speakers don't have deep, rich bass it will be tough to create it with amp selection.
I have found that all speakers are a trade off. They do some things well, others not as well. I try to enjoy each pair for what they do well and try to ignore the shortcomings. |
If you want good imaging, you need to consider the whole system. Every piece contributes to it and any one piece can wreck it for the whole system. If you are looking for an amp with good imaging, you have to look beyond power. You need power for other things like bass, for a good image you need purity. For example, SET's are consided some of the best imaging amps you can get. They definately make the least power of any type of amp. Generally speaking, if you want a good image and big stage, look for amps with low or 0 feedback, very low distortion, high quality parts with a fairly simple design and in some cases balanced operation. Some good examples of SS amps that image exceptionally well are, Ayre, Pass and BAT. They each have a different sound, but share some of the same features design wise.
In your price range, you may be able to get something like a good used Ayre AX-7. For what you're looking to do, its in a completely different league than something fron Naim or Exposure. And not just the amp portion, but the preamp portion as well. The preamp is at least as important as the amp. |
Yes I agree people love or hate BW. I heard a 10000 BW floorstanders with classe amp and Pre. It really dropped me in the music but no sound stage.
How would you describe the 2010s presentation. I do think I need 100 watts to get the tight cracking bass I heard in there entry level system audio. |
The 2010s2 and 3010s2 are close in price. However, I use the 2010s2 to power Harbeth SHL5s and would not want more power. It is a great match. Also, B&Ws are really love or hate thing for most audiophiles. To mr they are great. |
Well I may be going new amp but not speakers. Like I said my new system audio speakers do create a big sound stage just not the the pinpoint image the smaller SA did. I thinking its the change in rooms. I Will be looking for a amp with more power. At the least it will improve my bass.
I have heard BW speakers at my price range and above. I Don't care for them as much as System Audio. Like SA midrange better and the soundstage was much better. The BW were a little to bass heavy for me.
Might have been the setup.
I really want to hear the 2010S. I was tempted by one on ton but I think I want more power and reviews on 3010s seem mixed. |
I've got the 2010S2. While it is one of my favorite amps, I would not say imaging is its strong suit. It has a lot of body and it a little rolled off and pleasantly hazy at the top. For body and imaging I would suggest a B&W monitor like the PM1. |
Weird because one I Have heard the exposure do razor sharp image with small speakers In a very large room. I Have heard that naim sound stage was weak but with good prat but I have never gotten to listen. I was hoping the extra power would help the bass and thus help great a bigger sound stage. |
Changing speakers will change the imaging. I am a big fan of imaging and find that all speakers image differently, usually the smaller the speaker the better the image. Also, Exposure has great tone and warmth but if you are after sharp imaging, I would look to another solid state design. You might like an Arcam A38, Naim 5ii...but for a great integrated I must recommend the Outlaw rr2150. |
While it's apples and oranges to your system, I just picked up a Yaqin MC-30L tube integrated amplifier and in ultralinear mode it's rated for 50 wpc @ 8 ohms. Today, it packed ever bit as much punch as my Integra 50.1 receiver that is rated for 135 wpc @ 8 ohms. |
Thanks for the feedback.
Well I bought the speakers as demos. They could still be breaking in. In fact. I have heard them perform very well and other times they are off. I wrote it off as bad times on the power grid but breaking in period might also be the case.
They do throw a nice soundstage just not the pinpoint image the entry level System audio had. I did change the room so that is a a big factor I must address.
As to the power.... I think I have read other posts that pretty much express your view on power. I would like to try the mantras with more power. My last speakers had cracking tight bass. I have to believe theat moving up the line I would improve or retain that ability.
These speakers are rare in the U.S so I am not surprised no one knows them. |
I don't know your speakers either. Regarding the bass issue, more power can almost always help. Given that I don't know your speakers, I really don't know what to make of the imaging. Are you sure they are broken in? |
I don't know your speaker or amp. Based on the fact it's an 88db, 4ohm speaker, I would guess you are underpowered. |
I'll try to address the last part of your question.
"Will I have to be very careful about over powering these speaker or should I be ok with this power."
A lot of people have a misunderstanding that amplifiers send power to the speakers when, in fact, the speakers draw power from the amplifier. When an amplifier has the potential of supplying more power than the speakers can handle there is potential that you could turn the volume up loud enough for the speaker to draw more power than it can handle, but it isn't likely unless you're looking to replicate rock concert volumes. More than once I've heard Focal 806v speaker hooked to Krell monoblocks capable of supplying 300 or 400 wpc at 8 ohms and even when they were turned up louder than I would ever choose to listen there were no issues. It is my understanding that more speakers are damaged from an amplifier not having enough power than from being overpowered.
I don't think that having more power will necessarily improve your perceived bass response. But having said that, any amplifier that doubles the power from 8 ohms to 4 ohms should eliminate any concerns about the amplifier being the issue. It appears that you're talking complete apples and oranges with the two amplifiers. |
everthing is pretty modest and has not changed except speakers. Exposure Super XV -used- marantz 5004 cdp- project debut II record player- 0ld sold core exposure wire.
I moved up in the system audio line. First entry level now a little higher. The SA 505 had better base and more pin point image. This is why I
think I have a power issue.
would he LFD amp be too much power? |
Imaging and pinpoint accuracy are more influenced by speaker positioning and room setup/interaction. You need to spend some serious time in experimenting with the placement of your speakers and with mitigating early reflections, etc...
-RW- |
No. More power won't fix your problem. You need to pick components that image well. That's a design issue. Power has very little to do with it. Can you list your whole system; before and after? |
