Help with DAC and Streamer suggestions
Da, that would have been nice to add! I listen to mostly jazz, female jazz, classical strings, piano. Looking at my favorites in Tidal, here is the list:
Lots more of that type... Steve |
Go all the way with Holo May. If you buy it here https://magnahifi.com/nl/holo-audio-may-dac-level-1-r2r-dsd1024/ you can also buy their Mano Ultra Streamer and connect them via i2s. Onboard LPS. It does Roon if that's your thing. Both for ~$5165 delivered. They are a pleasure to work with. Shipped DHL. |
You are correct about the Yggy being a great DAC. I guess I was thinking of changing that so I can get the 2nd unfold of MQA. Neither my DAC nor the Bryston can do that. I'm thinking about adding a Roon Core device so it can be used for only that purpose, instead of the computer. I've read this is a better setup. If I have a Roon Core doing the first MQA unfold, perhaps adding an MQA ready music streamer capable of the 2nd unfold would be the best option, then sending the signal to the Yggy. To do that, I'd need/want a music server without a DAC (no need to pay for that). Something like the Lumin U1? Steve |
just to get the mqa schtick clear - there are 3 unfolds in total first unfolds if the streamer can deliver 96khz, then the dac does the balance of the unfolding/rendering folks who have sorted through this often feel that the first unfold gets you most of the mqa sound quality benefit, like some 2/3 or 3/4 of the way there bluesound or brooklyn or metrum (amber) as mentioned can all do the first unfold, or be set to deliver in ’pass through’ mode and let a fully mqa-capable dac do it all current metrum and sonnet dacs have optional mqa modules that let them do the full unfolds as well as others... so do some NAD products that have internal DACs (but be careful with the NAD stuff, they sound very mediocre) also, be careful about numerous Chinese DACs (Topping, Gustard, SMSL etc etc) that purport to be fully MQA capable, but they only do that properly if fed a stream via their USB input ... their spdif inputs will not do it... ask me how I know HAHAHA ********************************************************************** then there is the whole question of how much difference MQA makes at all, versus an excellent non MQA DAC... but i won’t open that can of worms here |
Source matters. With Tidal I think you should to upgrade the network and cables to get the most from your DAC. I upgraded to a Terminator and Innuos Statement for DAC and streamer but they didn't sound good with Tidal or Qobuz until I upgraded my network switches and cables. Now Tidal sounds amazing! I also moved Roon core off the Innuos and the DSP is much better. I would keep the Yggy and add a streamer like an Innous and a core like the I5. And then upgrade the switch. I use an Etherregen >fiber> SOtM switch > SOtM dcBL Cat7> EE 8Switch > Statement. Roon Core is on an Antipodes Core>SOtM dcBL Cat7>SOtM switch. The SOtM cables and EE 8Switch are very engaging. |
Perhaps there is another way of looking at this. If I have a Roon Core on a separate unit such as a Nuc or Nucleus, do I need a music server/streamer? What does that add to the sound as it moves from the Roon Core to the DAC? Or do I need the streamer as a Roon endpoint since the Yggy is not supported? Steve |
Steve: your Roon Core (in a NUC or Nucleus) IS the Server. You can hook it up to your Yggy directly, in which case the Roon Core is not only a server, but also an endpoint (streamer), or, you can buy a different streamer / endpoint to hook up to your Yggy. Whether there is any SQ benefits on doing this, it's up to you to decide for yourself. |
Hi Steve, I’ve owned my Yggy since Gen 1, and I kept it due to its ability to be upgraded at reasonable prices. Does yours have the Unison USB board? It’s an easy upgrade if not. Edit...Oops, I see that you’re using the RCA input. Over the years/decade, I’ve realized and experienced how important a component’s power supply is. A well designed linear power supply (supplies) is of utmost importance. Many of the higher end streamers/servers have dual and triple LPS’s. Examples include Aurender, Innuos, Lumin and Auralic. I ended up purchasing an Auralic Aries G2.1, installed an internal SSD, and it has been fantastic. I also subscribe to Qobuz and love it. I stopped using Roon, but I still have a subscription. I’ll try it with the Auralic in the next few weeks to see if it’s worth keeping. Therefore in your system, I’d upgrade the source and cables as anzaanimalclinic recommends. (I use a Shunyata Sigma USB.). After all, the Yggy can’t convert what it doesn’t receive. You will literally hear things that you never heard before as a result. Try it with and without Roon. Don’t be locked into Roon. Btw Aurender is not Roon compatible. Boy that Holo May looks like a monster of a DAC. I’d love to audition it. I guess the question is what happens in 2 years when newer DAC chips and technologies arise. Is it upgradeable? Ken |
Thanks, kmmd2. This may be an embarrassing question from me, but are you saying that I'll get more resolution from the Yggy using a good quality USB cable than the RCA cables I'm currently using? So coming out of the Roon Rock Nuc direct to the Yggy via USB? What would adding a music streamer between the Nuc and Yiggy provide? I've never considered this option... |
Steve, You’re welcome. I’m suggesting that you not use a Roon Nucleus at all and just purchase a high quality streamer/server. Lumin, Innuos and Auralic are Roon ready while Aurender is not. My guess is that the player becomes the Roon endpoint if enabled. The core is elsewhere such as a computer. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong as I haven’t tried it yet. Regarding a digital cable, I believe that they are system dependent. You may choose to use optical, USB, AES/EBU or coax depending on the player’s available output connections. (I believe that the Innuos only has a USB output to the DAC.) In my system, I went from a Curious to the Shunyata USB and noticed a significant improvement. I won’t get into details regarding cables, especially digital ones, as that is another can of worms. Ken |
I'm currently using Roon Core to my Bryston BDP-1, which is the Roon Endpoint. From there to the Yggy via BNC cable. I'm using a Lan cable from the Core to the Bryston. The Bryston is pretty old technology, but still nice. I see a few Lumin U1 Minis on AG for a decent price. The U1 does not have a DAC, but is also Roon Ready. Think the Lumin will add improvement over the Bryston? |
I use a Lumin U1 mini as a Wired LAN Endpoint fronting for a Chord Qutest DAC... The analogue out side of the Qutest feeds my PremaLuna Dialogue Premium Preamp to a McIntosh SS Amp and onto to Martin Logan ESLs... I have a MacBook Pro Wireless and a Windoz 10 Wired desk side that runs a Roon Core or Audirvana... Works like the cats pajamas... Very versatile and sounds Sublime... Good luck in your choices... |
My two finalists for a new streamer / server were the Lumin U1 and Auralic Aries G2 or 2.1. The Aries allows one to install an internal SSD, and I installed a 2TB Samsung EVO 860 into mine. I had the opportunity to buy an Innuos ZENith Mk 3 in July with their 20% first responder sale, but I held off. So far I’ve been very happy with my choice, and I also enjoy Qobuz. I can’t comment on the U1 mini versus the BDP1, as I haven’t heard either. If you do go for the mini, I’d seriously consider an external linear power supply such as an SBooster. Definitely many choices, and it’s impossible to audition various combinations. Good luck with your choice. |
Btw, the rest of my 2-Channel system consists of a VAC MkIIa SE preamp with cryoed Telefunken 6922’s, Pass Labs XVR-1 crossover feeding a Pass X250.8 for mids/highs and a pair of Bryston 7BSST’s for the bass biamping Maggie 3.6R’s. A pair of REL S/5 SHO’s augments the low end. Power conditioning for the above is via a Shunyata Everest except for the subs which are plugged into the wall. |
To run Roon the cleanest simplest way with good SQ is using a NUC which I prefer because it's cheaper or a Nucleus. Either of these run roon core on Roons OS ROCK. Connect the NUC to your router, connect any hard drives or Flash drives to the NUC. If you want to fully unfold MQA I would use a Mytek Brooklyn, connect it to your network router with ethernet use it as a roon endpoint and DAC. |
This is an interesting thread. I am not familiar with much of your kit. But the front end of your kit sounds solid on paper. Is there something with your sound that you are not happy with? Before throwing money at new streamers and DACs I would give Qobuz a good listen before focussing on thinking Tidal’s MQA might dramatically change things for the better? Just to play devil’s advocate I would consider your speakers and amplification. Your room, speakers, amplification will be the crucial factors, more so than streamers and DACs. Your front end is solid, so I would consider this. If you can try auditioning different speakers and amps in your space. If your room is “difficult” then I would pay close attention to speaker placement and possible room treatments. |
I'm just putting together my first streaming front end and have no idea what I'm doing, but first thing I noticed was you said "all Pangea power cables on all components." I would change out some of the Pangea for others out there, I think everything would open up. Your Acoustic Zen matrix are nice, I have AZ silver ref 2 out of dac and really like it. I wanted to start off with a analog sounding dac and came super close to buying MHDT orchid or Audio Mirror. I ended up with the RME adi2 v2 which I really like and am going to add the Teddy Pardo power supply for the RME going into Auralic Aries. RME sounds big tight bass and very open and clear and have not grown tired of it, just the opposite I enjoy it more as days go on. I still feel I may try the Orchid/AM but may always keep the RME for being so transparent and so many adjustments, I keep everything flat with NOS filter or slow filter sometimes sharp filter can be fun. Someone mentioned out board power supply's help, my preamp and phono preamp, CD player have outboard PSU's and think it makes a very nice difference, thats why I would think a dac should be no different. |
We are importing the best sounding roon server from europe the 432 evo server The 432 evo has been taking over the server market in europe and the servers employ a tremendos amount of novel technology They have 4 different models with ever improving sound quality Starting at the 3k 432 evo standard All model Designed from the ground up as a state of the art roon core and player Un like any other server they are upgradeable from one model to the next The aeon model 6k compares with an innous statement yet costs half as mutch We offer 2tb ssd for the price of others 1tb All service is performed in the usa Unique 432 plug in for more analog like presentation https://youtu.be/m_sYbgFvUOg 432 The 432 in 432 EVO refers to 432 Hz, and is one of the possible frequencies used for tuning acoustical instruments in the keynote A. Over the coarse of the last centuries, the tuning for keynote A has changed, from 415Hz via 432Hz to the current 440Hz, ever since WW2. More specific to this review, it is processing software developed by Klinkt Beter, based on research done by Maria Renold on the perceived differences between 440Hz and 432Hz. Maria’s research was carried out with a group of more than 2000 people, which were presented pairs of tones along with their octaves, at 440Hz and 432Hz, and over 90% of the people chose 432 as sounding, amongst others, more “peaceful” and “pleasing”. Converting to 432 Hz can be done in a number of ways, and although I have not tested any of the alternate methods myself, most of them are said to result in music that sounds more relaxed, but also off-tune, destroying micro detail and spectral imaging in the process. For example the method using normal pitch shift which lowers the pitch but retains tempo, will apparently cause resolution loss and kill the upper harmonics. Another method to convert to 432 Hz is by using speed shift, which is best demonstrated by playing a record on a turntable at a slightly lower speed. The 432 Hz method does exactly the same and lowers the speed on the fly in the digital domain, to map A=440 back to A=432. Although this may sound simple, according to Klinkt Beter, it took them considerable time to implement an algorithm that was both very efficient and free or artefacts. As a side note, remapping to A=432 with the default setting for the plugin only works well if the source of the music is indeed A=440. Most modern pop/rock/electonic/dance/jazz is produced at A=440 Hz, but classical orchestras tend to tune even higher than A=440 and for those instances, there is a setting that can be made to choose the base frequency for the 432 plugin. For my purposes (I don’t listen to classical much), I left it at its default setting which is 440 to 432 conversion and assumes the original music is produced in A=440 One could argue that the EVO is changing the music from how it was intended, and this is something that I cannot deny. But this is very much a theoretical matter. I always feel that if it sounds right, it is right. Whether or not it sounds right to you, is something that needs to be experienced. In any event, this method absolutely has some very obvious benefits, about which I will report further below. The 432 EVO utilitizes the 432 software in the shape of a plugin that processes the music from 440 Hz to 432 Hz in real time. This means that the unit still plays all formats, up to DSD256. Incidentally, while most USB chipsets are limited to 24/192, the EVO will play any file in PCM up to 24/768 and up to DSD256 via DoP when playing 1:1, and PCM up to 24/768 and DSD up to DSD256 output as PCM when using 432 processing. https://topnewreview.com/432-evo-aeon-review/ https://youtu.be/_jAv1e42RK0 a state of the srt room core and player https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/review/digital-reviews/music-server-reviews/432-evo-music-server/ Dave and troy Audio intellect Nj Us importers 432 evo |
@audiotroy ”The 432 evo has been taking over the server market in europe”. News to those of us who live in Europe where Innuos has basically been doing what you suggest the 432 evo has been doing. 8 dealers in the UK last I checked. None of them especially high profile. Similar picture across Europe. |
