Not surprised you like the Mundorfs in the CDP, I thought they would have been perfect in my two prior tubed DACS. Not so great in SS digital. |
FWIW...I have had good results with Mundorf M-Supreme caps. Very detailed,increased clarity,and smooth as silk with no brightness....relaxed. The supreme are physically a smaller footprint than the SIO caps. Exceptional in my tube dac. |
Quick update
I used the mundorfs in my cdp and I really like the sound now hoping to get a similar performance with the Russian Caps in my Amps
IMO Russian caps in combination with Teflons is a very good mix |
After a bit of humming and hawing i'm going to try out the k40 PIO replacing the coupling caps in my tube amps.
These have great potential.... we shall soon find out
Thanks to everyone that posted ..your input is very much appreciated |
Construction of SIO is somewhat ambiguous, as Mundorf mentions both polyprop and metalized paper construction:
"Our state-of-the-art metallised Polypropylen foils make it possible to maintain extremely exacting production tolerances that cannot be achieved with traditional oil/paper capacitor designs. This is also the first time that the benefits of oil-impregnated capacitor design have been successfully combined with the well-known long-term stability of metallised paper and internal series wiring for induction-free performance."
I believe the Silver/Gold version is dry, which may account for its temp rating to 85C, as compared to 65C for the oil versions. 65C could be problematic in a hot chassis. |
I stand corrected! I have to assume that the paper and oil parts that I saw in their catalog a while back are no longer made.
I assumed from the size of the parts (they are used in the crossover of my speakers) that paper and oil was the technology.
So there would be no electrical leakage issue with the polypropylene parts. |
Atmasphere,
Thanks for the write up. Just for the record the Mundorfs are not paper in oil unless I read their homepage incorrectly. |
My experience with the Mundorf Silver in Oil and V-Caps leads me to believe you would like the V-Cap over the Mundorf. I find the Mundorfs to have a rising response (brightness) in upper mids and highs, others report the same. This will only make for a more anaylytical sound. I would use the V-caps in your amp, adjust with Duelunds in speaker.
I agree with Atmasphere, there is such thing as 'too much detail'. Proper tonality and maximum resolution should sound more natural, more lifelike. Sounds like you have tonality issues, V-Caps and Duelunds will only help overall tonality, both are really 'natural', there is really no downside to either one of these caps. Something else is wrong if your system doesn't improve with these caps. Now, if you're system was somewhat dark, I would expect the Mundorfs could be the best choice. |
Musicfile, FWIW, there is no such thing as 'too much detail'. Also FWIW a lot of people associate brightness with detail, the two have nothing to do with each other.
IOW you can have an extremely detailed system that is at the same time very relaxed and easy to listen to. The Teflon caps will help you get there, as they add to detail without also adding brightness, so you can get a relaxed sound.
However, due to the fact that you have to let the amp or preamp settle down after the upgrade, I would not ascribe any attributes to the system until a good amount of run time has elapsed. Otherwise you might never discover what was/is possible. |
Anyone have any experience with the Russian k40 as coupling caps in tube amps.
I heard these work very well with teflons |
Thanks Atmasphere for your informative reply's
I'm hesitant to use vcaps both in my pre amp and amps
I feel i'm going to get too much of a detailed sound something i'm trying to avoid
In terms of leakage I realize using teflons avoids this however were speaking long term when discussing possible cap leakage. Is that correct? |
Musicfile, IME **all** paper and oil capacitors can exhibit an electrical leakage over time that can wreak havoc in your amplifier if used in the output section. This is because the electrical leakage will mess with the bias voltage on the grids of the power tubes.
The Mundorf is the best of the paper and oils, and rivals the Best Teflons like the V-Caps for sound. You can avoid some of the leakage issues by going with a higher voltage part, but then the size of the part gets outrageous.
So your best choice for the output section of any tube power amplifier is probably the V-Cap Teflon. It is a very neutral part, and despite claims otherwise, does not exhibit a break-in characteristic, like all Teflons (however, you will likely experience something that **sounds** like the cap breaking in for about 150 hours or so, this is actually the wiring of the circuit that was disturbed by the installation of the parts).
IME the part is very smooth, but also very detailed, a combination that is always rare and wonderful in the audio world. Be careful not to handle the part too much; Teflons do not have a curing quality (part of the reason why they also do not have a break-in time), so the part can be easily damaged if you handle it a lot. However once in circuit they are quite reliable, so long as the circuit does not come anywhere near the rated voltage of the part.
When installing the caps, do your best to keep the lead lengths and layout as short and as straight as possible. |
Thanks to all those that have posted
I will more then likely replace my amps stock coupling caps with Mundorf Silver and Oil.
I've heard these are very sweet sounding and seem to have what I need and should be a good match with teflons. |
A few other posters are correct. A couple of Teflon caps are nice, since the provide better resolution. Too many though, and your midrange gets sucked out, with nothing but a super detailed upper end. I have tried them on all bypass caps, and they were not to my liking. Too cool and steril sounding even on Tubes. |
partsconnexion.com They have a 15% off sale through November. Don't carry .22uf, perhaps you can order custom values? Ask Chris, owner and former Sonic Frontiers head. |
thanks
I will definitely check them out do you have a link where you got yours. Also do they carry 0.22 values |
Pat, check out my listening impressions of the Duelund VSF over at my virtual system. Over the top review, the Duelunds are the real deal! |
i just posted thread on a/a , im looking for one more person to buy at least 1 more V CAP with me { 2uF 300v )so we can get the 5-24 discount as well as 15% off sale at PC. anyone interested let me know. The 15% off sale is good til the end of NOV.
this may not be the right place to post this BUT for some reason I cant post a thread on A'GON only reply so this seems the best place to do it. |
I use Mundorf Silver/Oil output couplers in my cd player (Exemplar 2900), and preamp (deHavilland Mercury II). They have a warm but detailed presentation, and the pace and rythm are very "liquid" sounding. Good listening. Jeff |
If you got the bucks for the V caps then go for it!!
Otherwise the Sonic Teflon caps are suppose to be excellent.
I am running a pair of Russion K40 PIO on the inputs and Mundorf Silver in Oil on outputs. I see no reason to change them. (Though I may try the Russians on the output also)
Warm full detailed and tight sound.
I'd say hit ebay and buy up some Russion military K40 caps, and be done. I have been told that these caps would be worth over $100 if made today. |
I am in the process of breaking the V-caps and they sound very fat and bloated, no space between the instruments for the first 100 hrs. I am at about 200 hours and they are now listenable, top end is better, and they are starting to sound different on every disc...to me the acid test. Before, the sound was very generic and the same...not good. They are neither warm or bright, they are just as the source is...neutral. I am using (4) .22/600V coupling caps and (2).47 600V caps. They are being compared to some custom styrenes, which up until now have been the reference I have heard. The v-caps must be heard to be believed. They are the real deal. Forget power cords, and resonance things until your caps are settled. Spending 2k on a cord when you could spend it on caps is not wise IMHO. Jallen |
The Teflon V-Caps take a goog 400 hours to run in before soundinig their best. Perhaps that is why you don't hear them as musical and natural sounding yet. Yes, they are revealing but not bright once broken in. |
please let me know your impressions on the duelund caps
and how they sound
Thanks
Pat |
Hard one to answer. I'm in the midst of experimenting with boutique caps, as usual, its all about synergy. I haven't decided whether all V-caps would be a good thing or not. I'm auditioning Duelund VSF's this weekend (burning in since Tuesday), hoping to add some warmth for my digital.
So, I guess you have to examine exactly where you're at, and what your present caps are.
I would also describe the V-Caps as extremely neutral, if you need more warmth, your looking for a relatively warm cap. The Duelands are reported to have a higher level of harmonic development vs. the V-cap, yet remain highly resolving, we shall see.
Having said that, I suspect V-Caps may be your best choice for the Dodds. At this point I'm thinking V-Caps may be hard or impossible to beat in tube equipment, Duelunds may be best for SS digital, speakers yet to be determined. Duelunds also may not work in your amp, 400v max. rating. |
I have four quads of V-Cap TFT & Mundorf Silver/Gold across four line stage & amp components. There is good synergy, though cost-no-object I would go all V-Cap. I don't think you can have too much of a good thing. |
