Help! Buy McIntosh MA252?

No, its not overkill. And no, you can do better. For less even. Because your speakers are 90dB sensitivity, which is a bit low by my standards but still fine for one of these https://www.ravenaudio.com/product/nighthawk-mk3-tube-amplifier/ A Nighthawk will satisfy far more than any Mac at any price, and yes its enough power for your speakers.  

Its also the kind of quality that will have you happy for years and years. You'll be upgrading everything else long before you will feel the need for more amp. If indeed you ever do! It is in other words the sort of foundation stone on which a great system can be built.  

What does he mean by that? I can hear you saying. Well let me show you exactly what I mean by that. This is my system, and the Melody amp in it is not the caliber of the Nighthawk. Your amp will be better than mine. Upgrade everything around it, one day here you are: https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367

Thanks! I will check them out!

About three to four months ago, I was looking to purchase an integrated amplifier and went on to audition several amps and speakers. I listened to both the Raven Audio Blackhawk (which is one level above Nighthawk) as well as the McIntosh MA252, albeit not at the same location or the same day, so take my impressions with a grain of salt.

Personally, I don't think that the Nighthawk or Blackhawk are 'clearly' better than the MA252, it really depends on your preference and taste. Honestly, I could have lived with either. McIntosh certainly has a unique sound signature that you must listen to before writing it off. I'm going off on memory, but my impression was that the MA252 had more oomph and heft compared to the Nighthawk, but keep in mind the location, day of demo, and supporting equipment was completely different.

Another amp to consider is the Primaluna integrated. I was able to do a direct A/B between the Blackhawk and Primaluna Dialog HP, and preferred the Blackhawk but only by a small margin. Both Raven and McIntosh or made in the USA, while Primaluna is assembled in China. This may or may not be important to you.

Finally, if you go with the Mac, you can always recoup your investment if you plan to sell it down the road. Good luck!

Interesting... Leaning towards getting the MA252. Worst case scenario the dealer has a 10% restocking fee. Thanks!

hello, I have bought the MA252 and I am quite satisfied with its performance. I am connecting it with Harbeth C7 and Luxman 03 CD player.  The sound is stunning and has strength. However, in my opinion, connecting MA252 with PC is a bit waste. This amp provides a very  impressive and gorgeous sound, if there are no good equipment for matching it, I am afraid it cannot perform its best.

Thanks for your input! Great to hear you're enjoying your MA252.  I hope you don't mind if I pick your brain some more.

Can you elaborate why the PC would not be up to par? I am listening to lossless files and would get an internal audio card/DAC (EVGA Nu Pro vs Sound Blaster AE-9).  It seems many people here use Tidal or other streaming services so not sure how a PC is worse than that.  I was more worried about my 683s not being good enough for the MA252.

I had a 252, Pathos Classic One MK3 .

sold the 252 and kept the Pathos Classic One.

then bought a Raven Blackhawk MK3 and the Pathos was replaced in my main system by the Raven. 
Listen to as many options as you can. Raven has 45 day return and check out Pathos at Up Scale Audio as they have 60 day returns.

McIntosh 252 did not do it for me. Not saying it won’t for you.

Do you have the option of giving your dealer a credit card number and bring the demo units home to hear them driving your speakers in your listening room?

I have a McIntosh tube preamp and McIntosh solid state power amp and love that combination driving my Focal speakers.

That's a good idea, ejr, I'll ask my local dealer.  Otherwise it's so hard to imagine how each component will end up fitting with your existing setup and whether it makes enough of a difference to justify the cost.  Paying 7-15% restocking fee each time is just not realistic.

Skypunk, in what aspects was the 252 weaker than the Raven and the Pathos?

I've just purchased a McIntosh MA252 and matched it with my B&W 683 S2s.  I did not compare it to other hybrid integrated amps.  As an experiment I've also been trying the MA252 with an older set of Dynaudio Excite X14s bookshelf speakers.  All I can say is that the improvement over my prior solid state receiver with both speaker sets is dramatic.

Much will depend on the room, placement, media and input devices, but I really found the largest improvement in vinyl music; cleaner more natural highs, more musical detail and really strong bass.  A big improvement in CD and Streaming Media is also there, but not to the same degree as vinyl.  My cartridge is an MM Ortofon 2MBlack.

The 683 S2s never sounded better; its like they have new life; the X14s now fill the room with sound.  I was skeptical that the McIntosh investment was worth the upgrade differential, but now I have no doubts.  Still, I can't help but wonder now much nicer a set of new B&W 800 series would pair with the MA252 and that's how they keep us hooked.

Thanks for sharing your experience.  I decided to pull the trigger on the MA252 as well, after borrowing one for a few days. Dramatic improvement describes my own impression too.  I just wrote a post about it here  My MA252 saga | Audiogon Discussion Forum

I'm glad you're enjoying your amp.  BTW are you having an issue with hissing at high volumes? I read somewhere that the newer units have addressed that problem.

Enjoy !   Its a great amp.   

I recently replaced my aging yet venerable MA6500 with this new Mcintosh MA252 Hybrid. I also spent an additional $240 for the Golden Lion Russian Tubes (platinum /gold pins) and the sound really stepped up. The solid state amp is simply a newer configuration of the MA6500 or present MA5300 integrated, but this is so much better to my ears.

The Golden Lion tubes are wonderful yet given the current geo-political climate, I doubt we will be getting these much longer (I may have to stockpile them for future use). They outperform the Slavian sourced McIntosh stock tubes as well. 

I am glad that there are only 4 inputs and no digital DAC. I added the McIntosh MT20 ($500.00) and I now have excellent transmittal and digital receiver capabilities via the balanced inputs (also excellent sounding). For about the same price as the MA5300, I feel I got exactly what I needed. I never use all of the extra connections and they do come at a cost. This tube pre-amp in the MA252 is the same as in the $10,000 MA352 and the $$$ McIntosh put in this makes it hard to believe it's only $4,500.00. Blows away almost anything else I've heard.

Obviously, it will drive most medium floor-standers well (I hooked it up to me relative efficient 88.5db Bowers & Wilkins floor standers and it did fine). Where it shined was with my KEF LS50 Metas. This pairing shocked me at the mid range clarity. The dedicated sub-woofer coax output (an anomaly for McIntosh) has my REL t/5 sub-woofer in sync nicely. 

Pairing it with a Rega P8 (Ania Pro MC) and an excellent Marantz ND8006 network player has extended the range of the KEFs. I have more expensive kits but none as enjoyable as the sound emanating from this kit. The MA252 is a best value. Recommend upgrading the tubes, it's worth it. Cheers.

Hey @mervo ! Thanks for sharing your story.  You're not the first person that recommends upgrading to Gold Lions.  I just looked for them and it seems it's out of stock everywhere.

I enjoyed my MA252 for about a year before I had the opportunity to upgrade my 683s to the 702 Signatures.  Then I found out just how power hungry these speakers are.  After some research, I upgraded to a MA352, and boy they make the 702s sing... Then I got a REL S5/SHO (deal was too good to pass).  So now I am on "just enjoy the music" mode and trying to control my G.A.S.

BTW are you using the sub output or the high-level cable from REL?

Dridel:

I am currently using a REL sub (T/9x) with a MA352 in my main kit pushing 703 S2s and they are singing in my mid-size media room. Since I posted, I liked the B&W sound so much I upgraded the KEF LS50 metas for the B&W 705 Signatures and the MA252 is fine in that kit, but to be candid, I have to push it to 55% to full the sound out on the 705s. I can see that the 702s will need the extra power of the MA-352. Hope you're enjoying your kit--sounds impressive.