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Hear my Cartridges....🎶

Many Forums have a 'Show your Turntables' Thread or 'Show your Cartridges' Thread but that's just 'eye-candy'.... These days, it's possible to see and HEAR your turntables/arms and cartridges via YouTube videos.
Peter Breuninger does it on his AV Showrooms Site and Michael Fremer does it with high-res digital files made from his analogue front ends.
Now Fremer claims that the 'sound' on his high-res digital files captures the complex, ephemeral nuances and differences that he hears directly from the analogue equipment in his room.
That may well be....when he plays it through the rest of his high-end setup 😎
But when I play his files through my humble iMac speakers or even worse.....my iPad speakers.....they sound no more convincing than the YouTube videos produced by Breuninger.
Of course YouTube videos struggle to capture 'soundstage' (side to side and front to back) and obviously can't reproduce the effects of the lowest octaves out of subwoofers.....but.....they can sometimes give a reasonably accurate IMPRESSION of the overall sound of a system.

With that in mind.....see if any of you can distinguish the differences between some of my vintage (and modern) cartridges.
VICTOR X1
This cartridge is the pinnacle of the Victor MM designs and has a Shibata stylus on a beryllium cantilever. Almost impossible to find these days with its original Victor stylus assembly but if you are lucky enough to do so.....be prepared to pay over US$1000.....🤪
VICTOR 4MD-X1
This cartridge is down the ladder from the X1 but still has a Shibata stylus (don't know if the cantilever is beryllium?)
This cartridge was designed for 4-Channel reproduction and so has a wide frequency response 10Hz-60KHz.
Easier to find than the X1 but a lot cheaper (I got this one for US$130).
AUDIO TECHNICA AT ML180 OCC
Top of the line MM cartridge from Audio Technica with Microline Stylus on Gold-Plated Boron Tube cantilever.
Expensive if you can find one....think US$1000.

I will be interested if people can hear any differences in these three vintage MM cartridges....
Then I might post some vintage MMs against vintage and MODERN LOMC cartridges.....🤗
128x128halcro
dover
2,243 posts
 
@bydlo 

I settled on 22k vishays for Garrott Bros modified Decca London Gold with micro scanner. Probably set up about 10-15 of them in various arms. Also tried mounting resistors on cartridge, end of arm and emd of phono cable. Each position changed subtlely but getting the R optimised had the biggest impact.
halcro's avatar
halcro OP
2,664 posts
 
Hi @bydlo 😉,
Thanks for the update and the kind words....
As you rightly state.... loading is very personal and inherently 'system dependent'.
I suspect your intended loading of 25K may be just 'on the money' 🤞
Just remember to try slight changes to VTA and VTF which are all part of the complex recipe.
Looking forward to your continuing updates.
Regards
bydlo
142 posts
 
My LDR assault continues...
At 16.5k, changed VTF from 1.90 to 1.81. Opened up the sound a bit. Good. I do not dare to touch VTA as I think I’m in the sweet spot and I don’t use VTA for tonal adjustments.
Keeping 1.81g, I jumped from 16.5k straight to 28.8k. Wow again! First thing to notice - paradoxically - was the bass! More punchy, more present, giving a better foundation for the rest. The syrup of 16.k loading almost gone. More contrast both dynamical and in frequency extremes. More drama almost at the 33k level but still not there. Like a ride on high speed where do don’t know what’s rounder the next turn (although the LP’s I’m using I know by heart). Damn loving it!

As for the HF overload I reported with 33k - I had that epiphany at night. What if my amp is overloaded or the headphones (I listen on Stax O2mkI) overload my ears? Cause the rest sounded to damn right to be accidental. It was it! Me bimbo, big bimbo. Was enough to lower a bit the volume...Some sharpness at the highest notes/volumes still remained but recalling the ancient times when we still had live concerts in Europe, my ears (esp. the left one) would get occasionally overloaded at high pitch/high volume tones. So I choose to live with that given the rest of the benefits.


Summarizing, I’m returning to 33k. But instead of a dirty, long leaded parallel connection of two Dale resistors I’ve been using now, I will use Z-foils, pre-burnt for a week and soldered with short leads directly at the RCA sockets. I believe this location works best for me, picking least of environmental EMI (measured once). This can also give some extra clarity and clean some artefacts- witnessed that already a couple of times. Then will play with VTF only.

Now a bit of speculations why 33k works for me: The manufacturer states the optimal LDR parameters (I guess optimal means the flattest FR) as 33k/220pF with the cart inductance 130mH. I suspect having around 290-300pf - the EAR834 is around 200pF = AQ leopard cable 60pf + my DIY EAR has an input selector and extra wiring around it so adds some pF. In theory a lower load should be best. Calculation shows 21k, adding some 35% extra as London does gives 28.5k. However my Staxes are a bit recessed and darker sounding. Extra few kOhms at 33k possibly compensate for that. Just my speculations :)
noromance's avatar
noromance
9,769 posts
 
Apologies for being on the lower rungs of the London hierarchy with a SG (with Decapod and LDR paratrace stylus). I also have 2 other Decca cartridges. My application may not transfer to the LDR. Nevertheless, I run them all at 1.55-1.65 VTF and it opens them up so they really sing. If your rig and arm are good, you should have no tracking issues. I also find raising the back of the arm above parallel locks in focus. Try it. you might be surprised.
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rauliruegas
13,052 posts
 
Dear @bydlo  : That cartridge needs a very well damped tonearm and that the cartridge will mates with the cartridge the range of frequency resonance and that the phono stage has high overload margin.

You are playing with load resistance but you need to play too with load capacitance and you can't do it.

""   I do not dare to touch VTA as I think I’m in the sweet spot and I don’t use VTA for tonal adjustments. ""

Why do you think are in the sweet spot? if you have the " rigth " damped tonearm and phono stage high overload margins and is reallya good phono stage: why all those troubles?

Certainly is not an easy set-up cartridge but seems to me that you are testing at random with out have well defined your targets according your system limitations, nothing is perfect.

Maybe the change on VTF that noromance posted helps him but is not a very good advise to set the VTF lower than the manufacturer specs especially with cantilever-less cartridges that could makes more gharm to the LPs than good.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
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