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Welcome Frogman...and thank you for the kind words re my system...
It's really appreciated 🤩
I've been thinking a lot about you since this crisis has hit...
Being a professional musician, I feared that your livelihood had been guillotined overnight..?
I sincerely hope that you are coping and are in line for the Government 'Bail-Out' that others in the States will receive?
As usual....your 'Golden Ears' are spot-on 👂
I don't know how it happened, but I checked the speeds using the Timeline and they were indeed 'bizarre' 🥴 Both 33.33 and 45 RPM.
As I had just re-set them both recently, this was a shock 🤔
I will keep a careful eye (and ear) on them for the immediate future...
I will re-record this afternoon, with the adjusted speed.
Will be interesting...
Also interesting is the verdict of Noromance with which I agree....
However, it's puzzling how he associates his preferences with the DD Turntable rather than the cartridge...?
And hopefully....on the adjusted recordings, we can all hear the true cartridge comparisons?
Regards to you both 🤗 |
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Hi Frogman, Glad to hear you're all ok and taking the opportunity to 'chill out' 🙃🥃 The extra time you now have allows me the benefit of your latest (and even more detailed) cartridge comparisons.... I am grateful, as always...for your observations with which I agree entirely 😃 As you indicate...the differences between the $10,000 Palladian LOMC and the 36 year old Victor X-1II MM are very subtle, and in the absence of these instantly available comparisons.....I'm just as happy listening to the Victor 🤗 One thing I'd like to add (because you continually point it out but it can be often forgotten)......the Palladian is an incredible cartridge. Certainly the best currently available phono cartridge I have heard (excepting the DLR).... It demonstrates to me, that the humble aluminium cantilever (albeit a specific alloy thereof)....is as equally adept as even the most exotic materials like Beryllium, Ruby or Diamond. It's all in the understanding and execution of the cartridge designer, and it's no surprise that Dietrich Brakemeier has chosen it as his preferred material given his long history with, and love of....the Ikeda-designed Fidelity Research FR-7 Series of cartridges. And whilst on the subject of cantilever materials.....after owning close to 100 different cartridges of all types and brands, I can say that to my ears....Boron Cantilevers are to cartridges, what Kryptonite is to Superman 🤮 There is not a single cartridge with Boron Cantilever I have heard, do justice to the 'soul' of MUSIC as I know and love it.... Even when the designers try to mitigate the weaknesses by GOLD-PLATING the Boron. It's like putting lipstick on a pig 🐖 I'm hoping to find an AT-ML180/OCC with its original Beryllium choice for cantilever 🧐 The ONLY Boron Cantilever I can live with is that of the Jico SAS although I prefer it with their Sapphire or Ruby. But that's my personal preference based on my personal experiences. As always YMMV...😝 Thank you again Frogman... Keep well and safe. |
Hi Frogman,
Seeing that you're 'captive' and have 'Time on you Hands' so to speak 🤗......I wonder if you could do me a favour....?
About 8 Posts up from here.....I posted recordings of a 1ST GENERATION YouTube file just like all the ones contained in this Thread and then posted a comparison 2ND GENERATION recording of the 1ST recording being played back through my System.
As expected...there are losses which are obvious, but I wondered if you could, in your inimitable 'Golden-Eared' way....describe the losses as YOU hear them for they may inform us of the 'degree' of fidelity YouTube videos provide?
Hope you can Frogman..🤪
Regards |
I ask is it not the case that so-called "ruby" and "sapphire" cantilevers are one and the same material? I think it IS basically @lewm ..... What could possibly explain the differences here, is that the proportions of the RUBY CANTILEVER to the SAPPHIRE CANTILEVER appear to be different? |
2nd generation, overall much lower "fi". Loss of detail in about every respect. Loss of highs, muddy mids and lows, shrunken soundstage both side to side and front to back. As a result and most importantly, obvious decrease in musical aliveness. Wow! Yeah....massive deterioration 😱 I wanted to objectively establish a 'gauge' for the relationship between the recorded YouTube Video and the 'Live Event' (so to speak)..... I've been fairly pleased with the quality of sound on the videos compared to what I hear in situ.... Of course we all know that 'The Real Thing' must be better than a recording of it.....but there are nowhere near the losses that are evident from 1st to 2nd Generation recordings. I don't know how to explain this as the 1st Gen recording is being played back through the same preamp, amps and speakers using the same interconnects and cables. The only difference I can pinpoint is that the signal for the 2nd Gen is going through the Line-Level input of the preamp rather than the phono....? But all my other sources which do the same thing (tuner, tape, CD, aux) sound wonderful...🤗 Something is causing this which might be evident to others....? Thanks for the evaluation Frogman..... |
It took awhile but I read the whole thing. Good grief....a marathon session 🥴 Did you only READ the whole thing @sdrsdrsdr...or also LISTEN to all the recordings? I know you wrote that you’re not setup to listen properly....but are you able to listen AT ALL? Regarding the AT-ML180/OCC.....the OCC stands for Ohno Continuous Casting process In 1986 the Ohno Continuous Casting (OCC) Process was developed by professor Ohno of the Chiba Institute of Technology in Japan. The wire made by this process is claimed by our manufacturer to be 99.999 % pure and in our thinnest wire size (50 micron) that it has one crystal boundary per 6.5 km on avearge. Normal wire has a number of contaminants particularly Oxygen, Sulphur, Lead, Antimony and Aluminium and is typically 99.97% pure and has a cristal boundary perhaps every 10 mm. This, from a knowledgeable audiophile:- OFC is Oxygen Free Copper
OCC is Ohno Continuous Casting
Oxygen free is a good thing because it is corrosive. Just a high purity copper will do fine thanks.
Professor Ohno devised a method so there would be no or few boundaries in the copper.
In theory both of these are a good thing but the effect is really tiny and probably inaudible.
The OCC in particular is hardly relevant. Every solder joint or RCA or banana connection will have vastly larger breaks and I am skeptical that it is possible to audibly detect misalignment in the copper boundaries.
In the latter part of the ’80s.....Beryllium was declared "unsafe" to work with in some processes and cartridge cantilever manufacturing is one of these, hence....no modern cartridges utilise Beryllium. OCC and OFC are independent of whether Beryllium or Boron is used. On the original packaging of my AT-ML180/OCC....you can see the SEPARATE LABEL stating that it came with a "Gold-Plated Boron Cantilever". This label obviously covers the original proclamation of BERYLLIUM CANTILEVER..... That’s the model I will continue to seek...🧐 Regards |
Hi Steve, Beryllium normally looks like THIS But if your AT-ML180 stylus is not GOLD-COATED......then it should be Beryllium 😃 You lucky dog....🎉 Regards Henry |
I listened again on my all tube/Spendor/REL S30 rig. Amazing how it now sounds so more like a recording in free space compared to my headphones. Yes....I much prefer hearing the 'air', 'soundstage' and 'instrument locations' provided by speakers over headphones 🤩 I am convinced the Raven adds a golden warmth to the reproduction. I've always stated that the Belt-Drive Raven projects a more relaxed and somewhat less analytical interpretation than the DD Victor....and that's not surprising. "Golden warmth" sounds quite inviting....🤗 All the early recordings with the Palladian were done when it was mounted on the SAEC Arm on the Victor. Dover then suggested it be moved to the Palladian as he felt it wasn't quite optimised on the WE-8000/ST.... We then did a comparison which concluded that the Palladian on the Raven was indeed better than on the Victor. Here they are again..... PALLADIAN ON VICTOR TT-101PALLADIAN ON RAVENWhilst you have, admittedly...always expressed reservations about the Raven's abilities vis-a-vis the Victor......it has never stopped Frogman from choosing his 'favourite' LDR played on the Raven. Nor has it hindered his appreciation for the Palladian when mounted on either table. I appreciate your sensibilities and preferences are perhaps more 'acute' in certain respects than for me or Frogman.... And that's fine. As Frogman says..."Vive la difference!!" What I find encouraging about your particular preferences, is that the humble 35 year-old MM Victor X-1II competes with a $10,000 LOMC cartridge.....and comes out on top 🎉 In some ways, I agree with you 🤯 Thanks for your contributions. |
Do the tables using the same tonearms have different presentations that we would notice on our end. Tough question Steve..... The specific sound of each cartridge, tonearm and turntable is so intertwined as a combination, that I'm not prepared to try and apportion qualities to the individual components. What I do know....is that some cartridges sound better on one arm than another and ALL cartridges sound differently with different headshells 🙃 Palladian on Raven on my end sounds better than Victor. But I would probably give the tonearm the more credit here. I think you're onto something here Steve..... The Copperhead is just an amazing-sounding arm 🤩 |
I’ve had many people contact me asking where they can find a VICTOR X-1II? The bad news is........you probably can’t 😢 Even if you do.....it will probably have a damaged or missing stylus. If you’re patient enough to wait 2-3 years....you might get lucky to see one advertised on Japan Yahoo with a good stylus (like I did). Some more bad news...... You’ll have to outlay north of $1000+ to win it at auction. Same goes for the VICTOR X-1 and X-1IIE I don’t understand why.....but Jico do not produce a SAS replacement styli for the X-1 variants. They DO however produce SAS STYLI replacements for the VICTOR Z-1 model. And the Z-1 Cartridges are way more plentiful and CHEAP 🎉 Find one without a stylus for $40....add a brand new Jico SAS for $250 and for less than $300, you will have a cartridge better than any modern current-production MM up to $1000 and beyond. Let’s see what the listening panel thinks....🧐 VICTOR Z-1/SAS MM CARTRIDGEVICTOR Z-1/SAS MM CARTRIDGE |
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Isn't it fantastic that you both heard the differences so clearly on the simplest devices 😃
I can also hear them through my iPad and iMac speakers but was not sure if it was my 'knowing' the 'live' sound that might influence my hearing 🤔
I agree with both of you....
At 15K Ohms and 430pF....the cartridge simply comes 'alive'....
The changes in loading produce more fundamental differences than heard on many of the cartridge vs cartridge comparisons IMO 🤯
I think this proves quite convincingly....that phono pre-amps without fully adjustable loadings (in both Resistance and Capacitance) are designed without any appreciation for the beauty, nuances and NEEDS of MM/MI cartridges 🙃
Yes @dover ...I tried a multitude of combinations from 10K-60K Ohms Resistance and 0-430pF Capacitance and somewhat skeptically....arrived at 15K Ohms and Zero pF.
I say "skeptically" because that has been the general advice throughout the years, by so-called 'Experts'.
And I'm normally skeptical of experts....🥱😴
Thanks for your valued feedback.... |
I was wondering how you were going with your LDR @bydlo...?
It is important though, with the loading down at 15K Ohms....that the Capacitance is raised significantly to approx 430pF.
If you only load to 15K without adding Capacitance......the sound will be too 'plummy' and warm.
If you have adjustable Cap loading, you can dial in the exact 'sparkle' you want 💍 |
Wonderful Frogman..... Thanks for that 🙏 To my ears it is MM’s that tend to have a fuller, more tonally saturated sound; what I would describe as “lush”. I have also found that the sometimes exaggerated high frequency “clarity” of some MC’s creates a better balance in my all-tube amplification chain which tends, itself, to be on the lush side. Even the best of my MM’s can be a little too lush and dark in my system without enough clarity and control in the highs. The problem for me is that while I love the midrange “neutrality” of good MM’s they tend to go a little too far in that direction; almost as if they rob timbres of some natural colors by seeming to reduce the high frequency extension needed to balance out the very full and dense midrange character. MC’s tend to put the emphasis on clarity/detail in the highs leaving the midrange to sound too lean. A very difficult balance to get right.
I had forgotten your brilliant synopsis posted previously.... Totally agree 👍 And thanks to you and yyz for the tip of Fela Kuti... Will certainly check him out.. |
Most people don't have the opportunity to hear different types of cartridges side by side in the same System. Our aural memories are notoriously 'short'..... If you replace your aged MM cartridge with a brand new MC cartridge....it is natural that you will hear a difference and be impressed 🤩 Very few do it in reverse and change out an 'old' MC to replace it with a 'new' MM design.... Many have difficulty understanding those of us who have multiple cartridges (let alone multiple turntables and arms) as most people assume that you would listen only to the BEST cartridge in any collection. I don't hold the view that there is a single 'BEST' cartridge out of the thousands that have been produced over the last 50 years or so 🤔 To me, every really good cartridge (of whatever type).....offers a potentially 'different' presentation of the same recording. I can happily listen to all these 'variations' without missing 'the others' because I gain different perspectives and nuances into the actual recordings. Here are four very different cartridges playing the same track. I selected this Bob Marley track so that you DON'T concentrate on the 'reality' of the instruments or other artifacts...but just sit back and HEAR the differing presentations and hopefully gain some appreciation for the beauties of the magnetic phono cartridge 🤗 VINTAGE MM CARTRIDGEVINTAGE LOMC CARTRIDGECURRENT MI CARTRIDGECURRENT LOMC CARTRIDGE |
Great observations (as always) Frogman.
Thank you 😃
Your detailed descriptions allow me (of the cloth-eared).....to actually hear what you mean.
And thank you for the Link to that very interesting 'stylistic' comparison. |
Thanks for the interesting comments Dover 🤔 I don't think I hear the same things as you do....or perhaps, I don't perceive them the same way...? When you say the Victor X-1II is "horribly coloured".....I perceive it as a typically 'MM presentation' compared to that of a MC. Bob and the ladies are pushed back towards the band compared to the forward projection of them with the Sony XL-88D. There is also a 'rounding off' and softening of his voice in comparison again with the Sony..... Whilst you elect to call it "coloured".....I hear it as 'added presence' and 'midrange body' which the typical MC cartridge rarely gets right. The extended 'detail' with the percussion (particularly on the edges) is to me, just a common 'trick' of most MCs intended to impress the listeners and convince them that they are hearing more information....🤥 If you listen carefully......you're not 🤗 Enjoyment with the Victor, for me....doesn't wear off. Your comments re: the Sony XL-88D are more puzzling..... Firstly, I simply don't hear "the grain" you mention 😶 Last year, when you heard the Sony XL-88D in the heavy FR-S3 headshell on the SAEC Tonearm, you commented: Then comparing the Sony XL88D to the Decca - wow. More transparent and the majesty of the performance and the completeness of the full orchestral spectrum conveyed by the Sony is fabulous. There appears to be more chest/body with the choristers from the Decca, but the vocals from uppermids to top end on the Sony appear far more transparent. As the full orchestra comes in the Sony is simply wonderful, the most complete cartridge for me of the three..
At this point I am done with comparisons - could you please just send me the Sony for Xmas. Now back to the music.... What has changed....? |
As an aside I have been rolling through a few cartridges on my FR64S lately, primarily to see whats worth keeping, and one learning was that it is so much easier to clean cartridges when you can take the headshell off. Honestly I dont think it is possible to properly clean a cartridge without removing it. I hear ya brother...... And you're not wrong 👍 Not only is it difficult to properly clean a cartridge whilst it's mounted in a tonearm.... It's impossible to INSPECT the condition of the stylus. It's one thing to CLEAN your stylus....it's quite another to ENSURE the stylus has been properly cleaned 🧐 To do this....a minimum 60x LUPE is required. With it's own LED LIGHTS you can see whether the 'crud' has been fully removed and whether the diamond is shiny. Note: It won't be able to show whether the stylus is 'worn'. A professional microscope and experience is needed for that. For years I have been using a soft-bristle brush to firstly wipe the stylus from front to back (as recommended) followed by a dip in MAGIC ERASER followed by a dip in ONZO ZERODUST. It was only after the arrival of my 60xLupe that I saw the 'hairs' and 'dirt' often left on the stylus by the BRUSH 😱 This detritus was often difficult to remove even with the Magic Eraser and Zerodust so that a wet clean with Isopropyl Alcohol was the only successful remedy. I now NEVER use a brush...... Only the Magic Eraser and Zerodust followed by the 60x Lupe inspection. And this is done after EVERY listening session.....🤗 |
@justmetoo Thanks for the feedback...... I appreciate it 🤗 Yes....I understand and agree with you that professionally recorded YouTube Videos make mine sound feeble 🥴 HERE is one of many videos by Kenrick Sound which sounds even better than those of @whitecamaross 🤩 I contacted Kenji to ask him what equipment he used....? Schoeps discrete mic pre and latest capsule-US$5000
Nagra Seven digital recorder - US$6200 And that's just for the sound.....🤯 You must understand that the sound recording for these videos, is done separately to the filming (as you can see in the Kenrick Sound Video where the camera is moving around the equipment whilst the 'sound' stays central) and the two are matched up in the computer afterwards. There are probably 'Sound Manipulation' Programs available once you're doing it this way.....just as there is PhotoShop and others available for video 🤔 I am merely using my iPad with its inbuilt microphone and zero balancing or manipulation..... If I was interested in 'monetising' my Videos or if it was integral to my Business or Livelihood......I might have considered investing the considerable funds for all the equipment required. You have now managed to 'shame' my efforts and I am depressed 😥 Just kidding....😝 I can only proffer the excuse that the aim of MY videos was to see if the differences in 'phono cartridges' could be heard via the YouTube medium, and to the extent that Posters have been able to hear these and comment on them.....I've achieved my aim. As I was attempting to demonstrate the differences only between 'cartridges'.....I could have used a direct feed to a High-Res Recorder/Dac and digitise the sound like Michael Fremer does. The differences in cartridges would have been far more pronounced and 'legitimate' this way and there are in fact, many videos on YouTube doing cartridge comparisons this way. However this method to me, loses the 'reality' of hearing the sound as it is played on a system within a real Listening Room.... Somehow I think I'm missing some of that realism in Kenji's wonderful recordings.....🤔 Thanks again for the valuable feedback. |
Alright Frogman.......
Enough already......😴
You win....!!
The LDR reigns supreme!! 💪
The only question is... why you haven't bought one for yourself already...?🤔
And thanks for decimating my Victor X-1II 😢
What am I supposed to do now?!!
I wonder though....why the Victors received positive comments from you in past comparisons?
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No question Frogman...... You have been super consistent in all your evaluations and comments regarding not only the LDR and Palladian.....but virtually all the cartridges you've heard more than once. That's sooo annoying because I don't think you've liked any MM cartridges I've played for you 🥴 ?! Perhaps you're just anti-MM......? 😢 Can you recall off-hand which of my MM cartridges offended you the LEAST.....? Or should I best troll through the Thread to try and discover....? But the combination scares me 😱 I think you're wise to be cautious....and I can't recall reading of any firsthand experiences with the LDR on a parallel-tracker? But it might just be a blessed match....🙏 Thanks as always for your valuable and incisive a nalyses...
And keep safe whilst practicing 'social-distancing' 🗣 |
It was April 27th 1979 when Bob Marley and the Wailers stepped on stage at the Horden Pavilion in Sydney. Together with 2000 other rabid fans...my wife and I sat (and stood) through the greatest concert of our lives up till then....and it has remained so up till now 👏 After 41 years and hundreds of live concerts......NOTHING has come close to the performance, sound, electricity and perfection of that singular experience. To this day, I can still recall every note, every vibration, every flapping of my stomach-lining and the memory of repeating to myself...."I can't believe this"....🤯 Just as I can still recall every mouthful of the famed bouillabaisse we tasted in 1972 whilst seated in a bistro in the Old Port of Marseille....certain iconic experiences never leave you. Here are a few performances captured of Bob Marley which demonstrates I think....how the differences between 'Live' and 'Recorded' music can easily be reproduced via YouTube Videos. BOB MARLEY 1BOB MARLEY 2BOB MARLEY 3BOB MARLEY 4Enjoy....... |
Great shots as always Chakster.....👍 Fascinating information on the AT-ML180 OCC....but we have inadvertently uncovered a troubling anomaly as my ML180 OCC is described as having " gold-plated BORON cantilever" 🤪 Can you upload your Serial No which may tell us something....? I can't find any Date on my package. Do you have one on your's? My PackageMy Stylus |
That's amazing frogman.......
You absolutely nailed it.....👍
I didn't think those subtle qualities and differences would be able to be heard on the video.....and frankly.....I don't believe that even I can discern them when I play them on my iMac.
But you have described exactly what I am able to hear from my listening chair...🤗
The AT-ML180 I agree is probably "tonally the most realistic".....but both Victors just seem to give me more 'emotion' and 'magic'...
Some might say "more distortion".....🤪
For your uncanny hearing abilities......I present you with the inaugural 'Halcro Golden Ear Award'......👏👂
Regards
Henry
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Haha....
Sorry Slaw......but I didn't consider this a 'contest' 🤼♂️
I hoped....but wasn't convinced.....that the tiny, sometimes ephemeral differences between cartridges might be able to be discerned on the videos?
I was so excited when I read that @frogman had managed this feat....I couldn't reply soon enough....
Bear in mind, that each of us has his own preferences and biases when it comes to 'ideal sound' so that out of the 100 or more cartridges I have owned and the 40+ that I still do.....my favourites all have an underlying 'relationship' to my preferred tonal qualities.
The differences between them then....relate to their other abilities such as 'Soundstage', 'Transparency', 'Upper-Frequency Air and Extension', 'Depth and Control of the Lowest Bass Frequencies' and finally.....overall "Emotional Involvement' and 'Magic'....
These qualities are the most subtle and ephemeral and ultimately are the ones which elevate the 'favouritism' of one cartridge over another.
My hope was that some of these qualities would not be 'lost' in the videos so that they could be a viable form of demonstrating the sound qualities of vintage cartridges that Chakster and I have been promoting for years.
If these qualities can cross the 'divide' into the videos.....then I can demonstrate the fallacy of the 'MCs are better than MMs' debate and the greater fallacy.....'expensive' MCs are better than 'cheap' MCs.
At any rate.....being able to hear the sound of some of these cheap vintage MM cartridges, may convince those who might never have the chance....to 'take the plunge'....😎
Finally Slaw.....please DO listen and give me your thoughts.
I think they will be valuable....👍
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when listening to the X1 two things came to mind, good horn speakers and my Decca London. I chose the comparison to horns beacause I was comparing the AT to Maggies and wanted to keep it consistent. I agree the tonal balance of the X1 is reminiscent of the London Decca Reference in its seductive midrange warmth...but the LDR has a narrower soundstage than the X1 and its 'highs' are not as shimmering or transparent. I will do an LDR comparison on the FR-66S tonearm shortly. I've had a few AT cartridges (AT-155Lc, AT-20SS, AT-150ANV, AT-13Ea, AT-33MONO, AT-ML180) and they do share a 'House Sound' IMO.... Whilst they may indeed have a neutral, linear frequency response...I have never liked their high-frequency 'edginess'. With their Signet branding for the US market.....they tamed this aspect of their presentation and produced (to my ears) a warmer, more 'emotional' overall 'sound'. |
Glad you like the Thread Harold.....I'll keep them coming as there are many revealing comparisons to be heard 🧐 Halcro, I would gladly see an Ultra 500 in your collection hopefully in some day soon and hear your thoughts about ... My first Shure was an ML-140HE which impressed me. Somewhat later I tried a NOS V15 Type III which I didn't think was better than the ML-140HE.... When I tried it with a Jico SAS stylus however........I was mightily impressed 🤯 No hint of `edginess´ and truly a more sophisticated HF presentation with more nuanced and yes a `warmer´ and if you like more `emotional´ (natural) sound.
Totally agree... So much so, that it is one of my standard recommendations for anyone thinking of trying vintage MM cartridges. Because so many were made.......it is very easy to pick up a V15/III body for $200-300 and then add a SAS stylus. This combination will see off many of the high-priced modern MCs on the market. If you've heard this combination Harold.....do you think the Ultra 500 will be better....? Regards Henry |
I think you are right about the sticker on the box Chakster......
I wonder if there is a difference in sound between the Boron tube and the Beryllium cantilever...🤔
My cartridge model preferences have overwhelmingly consisted of those with Beryllium cantilevers.
Because no-one can use Beryllium for their cantilevers
anymore.....modern cartridges just cannot compete IMHO and those who haven't heard vintage models WITH Beryllium.....simply have no idea what they're missing 😛
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OK....this is an interesting comparison 🧐 A current US$10,000 LOMC Cartridge ( The Palladian) against a cheap vintage MM (Victor Z1) fitted with a Jico SAS stylus. The Acoustical Systems Palladian is one of the finest current LOMC cartridges I've heard, beating out....in my system.....Lyra Helikon, Lyra Titan i, Lyra Atlas, Dynavector XV-1S, ZYX UNIverse and lots of others. ACOUSTICAL SYSTEMS PALLADIANTitanium bush-hammered body with Micro-Line Stylus on Aluminium Cantilever. Running directly into the Halcro DM10 Preamp/Phonostage. VICTOR Z1/SASNext in line after the X1 in Victor's MM hierarchy, the Z1 is plentiful and cheap on the Japanese used cartridge market. With a SAS stylus attached......its performance exceeds the Victor X1-IIE in my system. |
I posted about the Victor Z-1 in my first month at Audiokarma(look at the date in the post #8): That's a while ago Theophile...... I hope you still have that Victor Z1 cartridge as you won't believe how it sounds with a SAS stylus? There are many more vintage MMs from my collection that you will hear on this Thread. You apparently have the same desire for the 'realism' of MMs over MCs that a lot of us also share 🤗 Regards |
Interesting insights once again Frogman....
I'm a little surprised by your thoughts on the Victor's 'lacking' in the frequency extremes as this is not noticeable to me in reality....?
For me.....this Joan Armatrading track shows a cartridge's ability (or not) to convey the 'emotion' buried in the vinyl.
Does the YouTube reproduction allow you to comment on that aspect?
Regards
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Fascinating Frogman........
You're obviously a musician and your insights are eye-openers for me 👁
I really appreciate your time in giving me this kind of 'feedback' 👍
I'm looking forward to your thoughts on the other cartridges yet to come....
Yes...there are sometimes reasons I have to use different arms.
And then again....you'll hear my other (belt-drive) turntable with altogether different arms entirely....😛
Regards
Henry
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I just listened again Frogman....... And I heard all the things you pointed out...🎶 I must admit that I don't really listen normally, from such an analytical perspective....but it's so obvious when you are 'briefed'.... Your descriptions are so much more insightful than the Reviewers' favourites:- - Attack
- Sustain
- Micro Dynamics
- Macro Dynamics
Which frankly are totally meaningless to me....🧐 Thanks again... |
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The truth is that a great table and arm will make inexpensive cartridges sing. 👍 |
I listened to the track on Tidal and the tweets are NOT there. I think it's his phone!
Bingo Noromance....... It IS the phone...😛👍 Sorry I couldn't organise it to ring at the same place with the other cartridges Frogman.....🤗 Regards Henry |
Just returned from a short trip expecting to read Frogman's promised impressions of the SPUs and Signet......
Where are they....??!!
Frogman......where are you?
I need your spot-on analysis to show me what to listen for......🎶😎
Regards
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Where does one find an SAS stylus for the Victor Z-1 ? Good question...... It used to be easy....just go to the Jico Website, look up the cartridge you're interested in (Victor Z1) and see all the Jico replacement styli available for it. One of them would be a SAS....the most expensive!! The SAS was a radically profiled diamond (some say similar to the AT ML Microline) glued to a solid boron cantilever. A few years ago, when boron became scarce.....Jico changed to sapphire cantilever and ruby cantilever and call them Neo-SAS(S) and Neo-SAS(R). Since about Feb 2018 the Neo-SAS has not been available. One rumour is that the elderly Master Japanese Craftsman who was the only one able to assemble the SAS styli has retired and Jico can thus no longer supply them 🧐. This is tragic for the analogue community IMO and we all hope that Jico can solve their problems and return to supplying the SAS Styli once again. Meanwhile there is an 'extortionist' market on Ebay where SAS styli are being offered at higher prices that Jico sold them when NEW.....🤯 |
Interesting Frogman.... I again agree with you in your descriptions of the two SPUs but your summary of the Signet is a little surprising....🤔 as the metal sleigh bells at the beginning sound just as shimmery and 'ringing' in realtime in my room....as they do on the MCs. This is something I always listen for when I play any cartridge on this track.... Your comments on the 'cowbell' are insightful as that has always escaped my attention. That is why this exercise is so valuable for me and your way of 'listening' is so enlightening. Unlike you....I cannot hear the 'dynamics' of MCs as being distinctly different to that of MMs or MIs so that probably explains my general preference for really good MM cartridges. Our ears all hear differently (even if it's only slightly).......with all the improvements in digital playback during the last ten years, I still can't comfortably listen to it for an extended period whereas many audiophiles can and some even prefer it to analogue 😱 MC is lush, sweet, detailed, and colored.
MM is clear, neutral, spacious, easy to follow. I tend to agree with Noromance as a generalisation.....although the SPU Silver Meister is definitely less coloured than the AE-Gold 😃 But the luscious tone of the old SPU is just soooo seductive...... |
OK...time for some piano 🎹🎼 Most audiophiles seem to agree that realistic piano reproduction is the most difficult thing to achieve via domestic hifi systems. The complexity of the piano in being a stringed and percussion instrument at the same time means the 'touch' on the keyboard, the attack of the fingers, the tone of the soundboard and the sustain and decay of the notes via the pedals are just as important as the softness 'piano' and loudness 'forte' the player injects into the performance. To achieve a realistic facsimile of the 'power' of the Concert Grand....I have found two 'aids' which are beneficial:- - Two good subwoofers
- A very good DD turntable
The subwoofers allow the 'foundation' of the piano's bass reproduction to resonate throughout the performance whilst at the same time, relieving the main amplifiers output to be concentrated at the sheer dynamic range of transients and harmonics inherent in this instrument. Perfect timing (ie speed control/consistency) is essential in once again projecting the speed and instantaneous dynamic swings of loudness and softness produced by this wondrous instrument. Many folks laugh at the notion of 'stylus drag' in a turntable (particularly those belt-drive tables of massive weight and solidity) but those who have a Sutherland Laser Timeline can attest to the fact that it surely exists. A great DD table is the 'easy' way to eliminate 'stylus drag' which is most audible on piano reproduction (see Timeline Test). Here are two of my favourite cartridges..... One a LOMC and the other a MM. An unexpected discovery in my listening experiences has been the JMAS MIT 1 LOMC Cartridge which was a slightly modified Coral mc81 from the late '80s with the first true VdH diamond fitted on beryllium cantilever available in the States. The Garrott P77 is a legendary MM made by John and Brian Garrott in Australia, based on the A&R P77 from England. I bought three of these cartridges directly from the Garrott Bros in the '80s (before their tragic suicide pact with their wives) but when I transplanted a Jico SAS,NeoSAS(S) and NeoSAS(R)....I hear the real brilliance of this classic MM cartridge. JMAS MIT 1 LOMC CartridgeMounted on SAEC WE8000/ST Tonearm on bronze Armpod surrounding vintage Victor TT-101 DD Turntable. GARROTT P77/SAS MM CartridgeMounted on DV-507/II Tonearm on bronze Armpod surrounding vintage Victor TT-101 DD Turntable |
I think noromance’s description of MM/MC’s was in reference to the three cartridges in question only and not a generalization. Of course it was.....😎 I have to 'proof-read' more thoroughly. What I have in my 'mind' often doesn't translate into the correct words. I like your 'generalised' descriptions of the 'sounds' of MCs and MMs and my favourite LOMCs tend to 'buck' this generalised trait. I had the VdH Grasshopper and found it far too shrill and aggressive in my system.....perhaps exaccerbated by mounting it in the low-mass Unipivot Haycock GH-228 😱 The revelation of your system's 'all-tube amplification' puts into perspective your 'likes' and comments as does the all SS amplification of my system 👅 I'd be interested in whether or not you can detect the SS nature of my amplification from the Youtube video sounds? Oh yes...I have the Acutex LPM420-STR as well as the Acutex LPM 310,312,315 and you'll certainly hear the 420-STR soon. You'll also hear the Shure V15 Type III with original stylus and also with the Jico SAS. The Empire 4000D/III Gold, London Decca Reference and Denon DL-103R I also have as well as some other interesting MMs and LOMCs which you may not have heard. I'll keep the 'sounds' coming as long as the 'feedback' shows interest....🤗 |
You need a good DD table-LOL 👍 |
Thank you again Frogman....
A fascinating dissection (which is why I love to read your comments) full of details that again seem to escape my attention 🤯
I must admit that I agree with you and Noromance that the MIT-1 is the clear winner here...
Being able to hear these performance side by side at the press of a button is quite different to listening 'live' where the time-delay in changing arms and/or cartridges reveals the shakiness of our aural memory....👂
I must admit disappointment in your comments about the 'poor recording' because I actually always thought it excellent with believable realism, nuance, heft and clarity.
With your musician's trained acumen, your verdict has left me desolate....😩
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Cut to the quick by Frogman's scorn and derision at my last demonstration using recorded 'piano'.....I hurriedly rummaged through my collection for one which might gain his approval....🙏🏽 Keeping the JMAS-MIT 1 as a 'control'.....I substituted a vintage Victor X1-IIE for the MM comparison. JMAS MIT-1 LOMC CartridgeMounted on SAEC WE8000/ST Tonearm on bronze Armpod surrounding vintage Victor TT-101 DD Turntable. VICTOR X1-IIE MM CartridgeMounted on DV-507/II Tonearm on bronze Armpod surrounding vintage Victor TT-101 DD Turntable Please be kind.... |
Hi Harold,
All Amplification operating in ‘Balanced’ mode and all cartridges operating in ‘Balanced’ mode with XLRs except for LOMCs when played on the Raven AC-2 as they go through the Kondo KSL SUT which has only RCAs in and out.
LOMCs from the TT-101 go straight through the Halcro DM-10 with XLRs in fully balanced differential mode.
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Wonderful insights once again Frogman....🤗
At the end of this exercise, I think I'll ask YOU to rate my cartridges for me......✊
Interesting also to compare your thoughts with those of Noromance....
Audio is a very personal experience and that's probably why I don't know any two audiophiles with identical systems...👅
The Victor X1-IIE is the same as Chakster's X1-II except his has a Microline stylus instead of the Elliptical on my one.
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'Love Letters' by Ketty Lester recorded in 1961 is from the 1945 movie of the same name. If you have the Ketty Lester version....forget all the others 😎 Many audiophiles have heard the reverential tones used to describe the London Decca Reference Cartridge by those few who have heard or owned this 'exotica'. My example was obtained from a dear audiophile friend in Argentina who is currently building his dream 'Listening Room'. No. 84 is a good one..... The vintage Fidelity Research FR-7 Series of LOMC cartridges has acquired 'Legendary' status over the past 20 years with good reason. My FR-7f together with the FR-7fz are generally rated as the best of the genus. LONDON DECCA REFERENCE MI CARTRIDGEMounted in vintage FR-66S Tonearm on TW Acustic AC-2 Belt-Drive Turntable. Loaded at the peculiar 15K Ohms with 430pF capacitance, the FR-66S is the best match of all my arms for this unique gem. FIDELITY RESEARCH FR-7f LOMC CARTRIDGEMounted in vintage FR-66S Tonearm on TW Acustic AC-2 Belt-Drive Turntable. |
You sure the Decca works well at 15k? Some say 33k, or 47k. But what about 1meg? You may be surprised. With the Halcro DM-10 PhonoStage, I have infinitely adjustable Loading from 15K Ohms to 60K Ohms and infinitely adjustable Capacitance from 0pF to 430pF so I've tried just about every combination for the LDR. Sometimes I'm happy to listen at 47K Ohms with zero Capacitance but when I really balance the response against my trusty 50 year-old Rita Coolidge album 'Good Old Days'.....I think the 15K/430pF sounds quite well in my system 🤗 |
