Have a Victor UA-7045 tonearm coming

Hey Bill, if you ever get to making the mold with your capability and even at usd30 a piece, there should be at least 50 pieces to be sold or usd1500 less cost and time expended ? Count me in for 2 or even 3 pieces and then have the motivation to search for a ua-7082. Cheers. Richard

Hi BIll-

Add me to the list of very interested in a bushing if you do get a mold made!

Mike

lewm, I agree that it certainly doesn't look like a low mass arm. I really doubt that it is. My Denon DL-103 played pretty well on it, actually it was the UA-5045 tonearm that I paired it with but they look almost identical from the top of the mounting base on up. At least the parts of the arm that move are pretty much the same.

I think it works well on higher compliance cartridges because it's designed and built very well. Here is a description from VE.

VE is not the most reliable source, either.  But that's interesting to know.  Perhaps that is where I first noticed the recommendation to use the UA7045 with high compliance cartridges, mentioned above.

My QL-10 has the UA-7045. @billwojo please let us know, it would be greatly appreciated. From the vinylengine site, " permits low-mass, high-compliance cartridges to accurately track even the most complex groove undulations."

I think it's one of those cases where someone at some time mentioned here that the UA7045 was suitable for high compliance cartridges, and from that moment forward it became a "fact".  I was surprised to read that statement, because by eye the UA7045 appears to be at best medium mass, maybe even high mass.  But I also have not been able to find actual data.

Never made the mold up. I’m hoping to get on that project soon as I have 2 Victor tonearms that need one. I will let the forum know if and when they become available.

What tonearm is on your turntable. From what Chakster say's, the UA-7045 is suitable for medium and high compliance cartridges and the UA-7082 is suitable for low compliance cartridges. I don't know of any published specifications that gives the recommended compliance values.

 

BillWojo

I am also trying to determine effective mass for this this arm.  What cartridges are being used?  Can I get away with a Benz Glider with 15 cu on this arm?

@billwojo 

Did you ever have the mold made for the rubber bushing?  I would love to get in on it as well.  I have a mint QL-10 and I repaired it with o-ring, but would obviously like to use the correct part if I could get my hands on one.

When you say "refurbishing" are you referring to having the arm rewired?  What else is done?

I emailed you back quite some time ago. 

Hello Everyone, ql-7 arrived…it is actually a ql-a7 with auto stop…any thoughts on tonearm refurbishment? Is it different than a ql-7? 
lewm- I contacted fidelis analog, waiting to hear back.

i really want to put in silver litz wire in the arm, is this a pipe dream?
tks

Well, my UA-7045 is straight but my UA-7082 is going to need the rubber bushing replaced. Need to get back on that project. I know others could use a new one as well.

BillWojo

If you already purchased then what’s wrong with the tonearm? Counterweight is a common problem. Simple test for you, just set the counterweight like this and you will see if it’s broken or as good as new (like on my picture):

 

 

If your counterweight is not in line with armtibe then you must replace rubber grommet. 

After several posts from other people from the USA I realized the prices are extremely high for simple refurbishing job (tonearm). Where you from? In our old Victor thread people discussed where in the states they can refurbish Victor turntables.

Gentlemen, Between all your input, advice and suggestions and knowledge I am sure I will get closer to that ever elusive golden sonic carrot! 
Thanks for all the input. I will keep you posted as to my next move as I am sure this information is invaluable for the future addicts!

G

Hello Lewm,

I started down this rabbit hole, and am not sure where it will lead, but often it is the journey,and not the destination that is so much fun. I am not super technical, somewhat handy,so minor tweaks I can do. I am most interested in the arm / cartridge I mentioned above, wondering if I should mount it on the basis 1400, I also have a older roksan xerxes table, and then the tt-71 in a new plinth setup to fire my imagination....not sure where to go next.

G

We were posting simultaneously. Please see my post above yours. Perhaps that will help. I do realize you have already purchased the QL7.

Hello Chakster,

I have already purchased the table and arm and it is en route as I write. Having read this thread , (and being a hopeless,or "hapless"), tweakster of old I would love to send the arm and motor for refurbishment.

Greg, unfortunately getting the turntable to operate properly might be more complex and expensive than fixing your tonearm. However, the number one guru for DD TT repair is JP Jones. He can be found at fidelis analog, his website. As to the tonearm problem, maybe BIllwojo can help you. This thread is more than a year old, but maybe by now Bill has machined the needed rubber or rubbery parts to fix your tone arm, if it’s only problem is a floppy counterweight. Contrary to what Chakster insists, there is absolutely no reason why you cannot do a proper repair yourself. Removing the counterweight assembly is very easy to do. Just be sure you do not lose any of the tiny screws that one must remove.

Greg, you can buy working turntable and working tonearm without any restoration, just look and buy properly working units, they are cheap. Victor UA-7045 tonearm cost no more than $750 in perfect operation condition, if you want victor turntable you'd better look for TT-81 (also cheap). 

Hello to all vinyl addicts!

I am always impressed at the level of detail we as a group delve into in search of that perfect sound. Having recently retired I am reviving my vinyl addiction. I recently acquired a new denon103r, had terry robinson at paradox pulse repot the cartridge, and had Joseph Long replace the stock cantilever and tip with a ruby cantilever and a Geyger S diamond tip. However ,on my origin live modified rega 300 arm on a bassis 1400 table something seemed missing. Having read a little about proper tonearm/cartridge pairings, I found a used ql-7 with a ua-7045 arm.

As the table looks very old, motor doesn't quartz lock, but my immediate concern is getting the arm refurbished. Does anyone here know who would be the best to restore the arm, (then eventually the motor), (then I will see if I can find a wood craftsman herein Vt. to make a plinth out of solid maple.)

Any thoughts or help is humbly appreciated.

Greg

war of the worlds

The album was one of the first recorded on 48 tracks, using two synchronised 24 track Studer A80s at Advision Studios in London. It was engineered by Geoff Young, who brought the recordings together with only a 16 channel desk

lewm

1. ignore the #’s on the tt arm’s anti-skate dial, they are often way off. I prefer the notched rod/dangling weight of SME type, one of the features of the long arm I bought.

2, start with the blank lp, whatever it’s made of, it get’s you CLOSE

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gw99w7d345p7wz5/Blank%20Record%20Antiskate%20Setup.MOV?dl=0

3. REFINE using very familiar music with strong l/r/c content, like the one’s I keep posting (I don’t like test lps, but they can work).

a. CD version to verify the system is truly balanced
b. LP version, adjust anti-skate for matching imaging, done.

4. My familiar music.

a. three distinct guitarists, and equal live audience sounds, side 2, tracks 2 and 3

youtube of that lp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3BzAKHCEvo

b. center done right, Cassandra Wilson on this entire album.

https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Light-Dawn-Cassandra-Wilson/dp/B000005HBI

c. Eurythmics, Studio LP’s, lots of strong l/r, sound effects, Annie Lennox centered

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurythmics

d. take along CD versions to evaluate a sound system

and bring these two

hear their voices distinctly

https://www.google.com/search?gs_ssp=eJzj4tVP1zc0TDMyM7csK7M0YPSSy8tXyM0vSlUoSU0sKlZIzcsvTc9QyISxAFO...

lots for evaluation, and Richard Burton better sound like Richard Burton

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Wayne%27s_Musical_Version_of_The_War_of_the_Worlds

• Richard Burton – spoken words (The Journalist: the narrator-protagonist)
• Justin Hayward – vocals (The Sung Thoughts of the Journalist)
• David Essex – spoken words and vocals (The Artilleryman)
• Chris Thompson – vocals (The Voice of Humanity)
• Phil Lynott – spoken words and vocals (Parson Nathaniel)
• Julie Covington – spoken words and vocals (Beth)
• Jerry Wayne – spoken words (The Voice of NASA)

@billwojo no not Vlad. I will not reveal my time machine operator as I don’t want too many people invading his vault. :) Great deals do happen. I bought a mint Luxman PD444 with two NOS arm boards for $2000 from Japan 3 years ago. Had mint cover but of course they always break in transport. There are great deals out there but rare.
If it's not broke, don't fix it. 
@chakster

knollbrent, are you talking about Vlad out of CD?  chakster, I assumed that this was going to need the isolation bushing but was wrong. Even with the weight out at the end of the stub it barely moves down. Not a single scratch on the tonearm tube or anyplace else. I’m more than pleased, it’s much nicer than I was expecting. No hint of corrosion either, a big problem with stuff coming from Japan, an island in the middle of the Pacific.
BillWojo

NOS UA-7045 and 7082 is the way to go if you can even find them. Must have time machine. I happen to know a Russian that has a time machine with excellent Japanese connections. My samples are NOS. 

If you’re happy it’s fine, but NOS condition is something different (must be a box, manual, all parts together and perfect working condition). After your first message in this thread I realized than the price is low because there is a defect described by yourself:

the rubber damper in the counterweight stub that degrades and causes the dreaded tonearm droop where the weight starts hanging down.

It’s pretty common for UA-7045 and 7082 and this is why a perfect sample without this defect is not easy to find and normally twice as much in price. A true NOS sample in the box is very hard to find even in Japan.  

chakster, the tonearm I received could pass as NOS if it came in the original box with headshell and cable, it's that nice. All in with shipping from Japan it was less than $300. I got very lucky with that deal but the pictures were clear and it looked very clean. I'm a happy guy.
BillWojo

I only said "MOST OF THEM" speaking about modern tonearm design.
But those modern arms, that I like, are about 5-10 times higher in price.

So it’s hard to argue that Japanese vintage tonearms are cheaper, and, at the same time, beautiful! Technically many of them are superior to their modern competitors.

Victor tonearms are amazing and inexpensive (say under $1500 for NOS, I do not discuss those broken samples that goes almost as a free gift). Don Griffith compared his Victor 7045 to Graham and preferred Victor, search on audiogon and you will find his posts.

Modern tonearms are ugly and very expensive, some of them are nice, but still very expensive.

While I'm far from an expert in tone arms and Chaks opinion might be expressed trivially as I'm sure there are modern tonearms which could be pretty looking to most people, I think Chak like myself admires things made in a past time of a golden era, tonearms, turntables, cartridges, vacuum tubes, cars, and other craft, milenials, modern society doesn't care about these details anymore, everything is made in a rush to save cost and results speak by themselves, hence we tend to admire such things and adopt the concept that these were made better than today's.

Of course it is a bias opinion not applicable to everything but many times accurate.

I for example admire the 6C33C-B, I haven't seen a tube better designed, the day I held that tube in my hand I falled in love with it, the construction, the glass shape to hold the copper rods, the thickness of the glass, it just screams good design and engineering, there are way better tubes of course but that one personally I just like it.

And you are correct and objective lew

Chak, You've expressed one man's opinion.... Your own.  I would not agree categorically that vintage tonearms are more "beautiful" than modern tonearms (whatever that means in describing a device that is actually a tool).  Modern tonearms do tend to look different from vintage tonearms in the sense that materials science has advanced over time, allowing for the use of new plastics, carbon fiber, and wood that was not practicable 40-50 years ago.

Just to tease, this is NOS Victor UA-7082 with NOS MC-L10 cartridge. 
And again, this NOS sample does not have any problem with rubber grommet (just like my ex NOS 7045). The armlift is also nice and smooth. This long tonearm is so beautiful and easy to use and adjust. Yet another image of the same NOS Victor 7082. Why vintage tonearms are so beautiful while most of the new tonearms even for 10 times higher price are so ugly?  

Elliot, No need to apologize for being curt.  I enjoy these discussions, and I view them as a way to learn from others here.  We are a very tiny fraternity of people who have even the slightest interest in most of these subjects, so vigorous debate makes us all better.
Your latest post is such a bewildering panoply of statements that I agree with and statements that I find completely incorrect that I will not try to dissect it all right now.  But your opening statement was this: "It is NOT the grooves that make the inner motion, it is a natural force that occurs, and is proportional to tracking force."

Please tell me what is the "natural force"?  VTF does affect the magnitude of the skating force in that higher VTF generates more friction in the groove.  But without the force of friction (which is impossible in the real world)  there would be zero skating force.  I don't really care how many blank LPs one can buy on Amazon, nor do I care how many others set AS using a blank LP, the fact is that using a blank LP is not a rigorous way to set AS, because of the lack of grooves.  Your alignment protractor, while it is probably fine when used as an alignment protractor, is an even worse tool for setting AS, because so far as I can tell, it is not made of vinyl.  Hence the coefficient of friction between its surface and a diamond stylus is going to be different from that of vinyl to diamond.  Now, when all is said and done, setting AS is always going to be sloppy, because during the course of playing an LP, the skating force is constantly varying in magnitude all across the surface of an LP, if you are using a conventional pivoted tonearm.  Thus there is no one perfect setting for AS, which is why illogical methods for setting AS can sometimes "work". But it's best to understand at least the theory behind the process.

lewm

didn’t mean to be curt, just had to go

It is NOT the grooves that make the inner motion, it is a natural force that occurs, and is proportional to tracking force.

here’s a video of blank vinyl lp showing the natural inward arm movement and cancellation of that inward ’pull’ by anti-skate adjustment.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gw99w7d345p7wz5/Blank%20Record%20Antiskate%20Setup.MOV?dl=0

amazon (and others) sells a blank lp for that purpose

https://www.amazon.com/Blank-Vinyl-Records-BLACK-VINYL/dp/B00HZ5T1NA/ref=sr_1_3?crid=38AUY9LSQVL0R&a...
..................................

The anti-skate, increased/decreased anti-pull, is to get the stylus ’floating’ in the groove, not pulling against either side

1. preventing wear of both stylus and grooves
2. ready for ’equal’ reaction to l/r side wall information
3. allowing the tip to go deeper in the groove, allowing improved contact with both groove walls, ready for some movement of the cantilever via hills, valleys, caverns
4. anti-skate is more critical with advanced stylus shapes, both to get the advantages of their increased side wall contact area, and avoid damage misalignment can produce.
5. advanced stylus last longer, and do less damage to the groove walls, ONLY IF they are properly aligned, vertical azimuth very important, and if anti-skate gets them to float in the groove.
6. longer life og advanced stylus shapes also depends on proper alignment and anti-skate.

that is why, after I set it physically via no grooves, I then use my specific 3 guitarists tracks and refine the adjustment by ear. And, re-check it from time to time. As I say, use the CD versions to prove your system is properly balanced prior to using the LP version for anti-skate refinement.

Based on my use of advanced stylus shapes, I would never use a tonearm without anti-skate adjustment.

I have also found, when anti-skate is correct, even after my scrub cleaning of some dirty lps, the first play, the stylus, further down the groove, will dig out some very fine white dust/fuzz way down in there, gone on 2nd play. If not properly adjusted, it will not get low enough in the groove to dig that stuff out. Another indicator it is correct.

Misaligned: I got a seriously warped lp for my birthday, President Johnson's speech signing the Civil Rights Law 1965
https://www.discogs.com/sell/release/9963390?ev=rb

even with heavy weight on, it bellied up in the center. Current events, I played it like that. After side one, there was a long thin string/ribbon of black vinyl, the stylus had cut into the side wall, carved it out just like a recording cutter carves the vinyl away. That is a much exaggerated display of misalignment. I'm gonna get a 10lb can of .... to hold it down flat before playing it again. Horray for monster direct drives like my JVC TT81 that can take a lot of weight!

.............................

Now, I use my fairly new alignment lp, it has enough smooth surface, it bumps over the area with grid lines, and I do not use the TT motor, I spin it by hand, Eventually it will develop some grooves cut by the stylus tip, and I will then buy a blank lp.

The tonearm tube is a aluminum -magnesium alloy. Anodizing the tube after it's made creates a thin protective layer of aluminum oxide. Anodizing is also an effective electrical insulator, it's why so many heatsinks are anodized.
I agree totally about tonearms and even DD motor drives that were built back than. It was a golden age and better products are very few and far between.
There is a current thread about "Tonearm Inspiration", chakster gives his short list of tonearms that he recommends and they are all beautiful crafted Japanese tonearms with a big following. Most are far cheaper than the new arms built today but prices for nice examples are slowly creeping up. 

BillWojo

Currently I’m using a JVC QL-A7 with the UA-5045 tonearm that has auto lift. It’s a nice tonearm but this is even much, much nicer than that.

Were you aware that the tonerm barrel has a treatment that makes it shielded and non-conductive? Do not you believe it?
Take a tester and try to connect the tips in "diode test" mode on the barrel and you will see that the tester remains silent, yet the barrel is in real metal!!!
What and how they built the arms 40 years ago was a gold age and marvel.

it works

Elliot, I am not sure what you are recommending, so maybe I am off base in the following statement. If you are recommending setting AS using a smooth, i.e., grooveless, portion of an LP, or a test LP that has no grooves at all, or that alignment protractor which is not even made of vinyl, seen in the URL you cited, then I suggest this is not a good idea. Because the skating force (the force you are trying to counter when you set the AS force) is caused by the friction force of the stylus tip in the groove. An LP with no grooves does not accurately reproduce the skating force you are trying to equalize. Moreover, that alignment protractor you've recommended is not even made of vinyl, so it's a worse tool for setting AS than even a blank LP.  Apologies if I have misunderstood your previous post.

Bill,

my two simple tools to refine anti-skate:

most alignment disks (important tool to have in ant case) have enough smooth surface to see the arm react/move in/out while adjusting anti-skate force.

https://www.amazon.com/Hudson-Hi-Fi-Turntable-Cartridge-Protractor/dp/B01MU6AD2E/ref=sr_1_22?dchild=...

Mine is 2 sided, strobe rings on other side, so I use the alignment side, bouncing merrily over the grids, then the important smooth area. I wonder if this single sided one, no strobe, if the other side is smooth, anyone know?

I spin it manually, check it at 3 locations, inner, center, outer areas.

adjust to get very slightly in at inner area, essentially no movement center or outer areas. don’t even look at the indicator dial, just reality.

next, your ear, much nicer than test tracks

side 2, tracks 2 and 3 all 3 guitarists, if you hear the l/r equally, the center distinct and centered, the applause equal then you have it! make a minor adjustment, you willl hear it.

https://www.discogs.com/sell/list?master_id=68141&ev=mb&currency=USD&sort=condition%2Cde...

Of course, you have to be assured your system is truly balanced before doing this.

I use this CD. Is Cassandra dead center? This will help prove system balance.

https://www.discogs.com/sell/item/1116039471

CD version to prove system balance because you cannot yet rely on TT anti-skate setting.

Then use the 3 guitarists for a precision anti-skate adjustment.

Cassandra LP version for more delight, she should still be dead center 

Thanks for the info on anti skating, I've always done it the old way, set AS = to VTF. when I get this setup I'm going to dial in a little bit and go from there.
BillWojo

Bill, In days of yore, some advised setting AS equal to VTF, but I think in this "modern" era, no one would advise you to do that.  Now will come a flood of advisories on AS, but what I do is to start out with the most minimal amount of AS that is achievable with the particular tonearm I am using.  If I hear distortion in the L channel, I will tick up the amount of AS until that distortion goes away.  The required amount of AS is always way less than VTF.  This is all by ear.

I dont think I ever ran either the  7045 or 7082 more than 1, probably more like 0.7.
Same as I have my 505ls set at.
Never ran a dl103 though, vintage carts mostly like Astatic/Glanz.

Thanks guys. Currently I’m using a JVC QL-A7 with the UA-5045 tonearm that has auto lift. It’s a nice tonearm but this is even much, much nicer than that. Fit and finish on this reminds me of a high end camera. This doesn’t even have any minor scratching on the tonearm tube. Who ever owned the table this came off of either was fastidious about using it or never used it. I can’t wait to hear it.I’m going to mount my retipped DL-103S on it. Has an elliptical stylus. Tracking will be around 1.8Gr. How have you found the anti skating adjustment to be? I don’t have any of the fancy setup tools to check it. If I set the adjustment to 1.8Gr will it be very close?

BillWojo

I have the 7045, and I have owned the MS MA505.  I agree that both of them are beautifully made. If you like industrial art, the word "exquisite" would not be out of place.

Sounds like you got a great deal there Bill.

I had both a tt81 in a cl92 plinth and a tt71 badged as a qla7.
The 81 cw 7082.
The 71 cw 7045.

The 7082 did suffer some minor droop which may have effected it as it just never sounded quite as nice as the 7045 which was near perfect.

I agree the build quality is amazing and the vta adjustment is very slick, possibly only surpassed by my present micro Seiki ma505ls arm.

Enjoy!

Well it wasn't supposed to arrive till Wednesday but it came this afternoon. Very well packed, I paid extra for having it repacked. DHL works on a holiday!
So far this far exceeds my expectations, it looks like brand new and has zero tonearm sag!
Not sure when I'll get to my buddy's shop to use his Bridgeport, I'll need to bore a hole out to mount it.
It's an absolutely beautiful piece of engineering and craftsmanship. Even the tonearm lock is at a whole another level compared to any tonearm I've handled before. The "On the Fly" VTA collar works as smooth as a focusing ring on a high dollar camera. The anti skating adjustment is smooth as silk as well. When set to zero the arm stays where you put it and as soon as you start dialing a little bit in it will start to swing. Very sensitive!
I'm very happy.
Now I want to find a UA-7082 in this condition. That may take awhile.

BillWojo

Lewm, if you have bad pillow you can bounce all night long.
I know that this is weird but life isn’t easy even for the decoupled ends...
What is original is always a question.

bukanona, I have samples of different durometers of urethane coming to me. That way I can try and compare the original rubber to the urethane I'd like to use. Of course the rubber is probably somewhat changed after close to 40 years so it's all going to be a "best guess". It's going to be one of the softer durometers I'm pretty sure of that. It it was hard and firm I could simply machine it out of urethane barstock. The softer material doesn't machine well at all. Hence the casting research. If the UA-7045 works well as is I may just run it like that for awhile as well.

BillWojo

Rubber and resonance. Will I ever sleep soundly?